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Rift Zone
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Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! 1
#26458323 - 01/29/20 10:31 AM (4 years, 10 hours ago) |
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Who are we? Where did we come from? Where are we going? Why are we here? What’s life all about??? For lack of a better term, these questions and their ilk are among the “core questions of humanity”. They are an inherent part of our nature. We are innately compelled to seek understanding of our place in the universe.
Being curious about the world around us is an innate trait but we should note these inquiries are taken a lot more seriously than other inquiries. It could be argued we would naturally be even more curious about things that applied to our existence, but even then we can see these core questions have a deeper grasp on humanity than even particularly intriguing trivia. Knowledge pertaining to our existence and relation to the universe touches the depths of our beings. It’s far more than intellectual musings over awe inspiring and wonderful things found in the universe. Those inquiries involve something deep within us. That we feel sensations reverberate throughout our beings when we touch upon such things only provides a hint of how deeply involved our understandings are with the rest of our beings. The phenomenon of epiphany provides another glimpse as to how some conscious considerations impact far more of our beings than consciousness. Consciousness is only marginally involved with this, most of what’s going on there involves subconsciousness.
It is fairly evident our ‘core questions’ originate within subconsciousness given the innate origins of such curiosities. What is less event to us is what we do with those answers. Being compelled to understand our relation to universe is familiar enough to us, however, we don’t have conscious engagement with the next step in that process anymore than our consciousness is involved with compelling us to research our relationship to everything in first place. It stands to reason the ultimate relevance of those questions could be obscure. What happens is those answers go straight back to subconsciousness where they effectively serve as foundation from which we largely derive our identities, philosophies, moralities, world views, ways of being, approach to existence… So much of what and how we are can be traced back to what we believe. This may seem to be a rather curious conclusion until you take an honest look at humanity, at which point all there is to find is overwhelming evidence. Take the religiously devout for instance, they are effectively literal manifestations of their belief structure in a profusion of ways. Atheists are no different; the way they engage existence is a direct result of what they make of it. We all look into the universe to gain understanding of our relationship to it, then we live through what we find; our process of growing includes working that in. This is how humanity operates. Families turning their backs on their own members for acting contrary to their beliefs stands as testament to how strong of a force belief structure is. Dissenters within more strict environments face being murdered by their own parents; it happens all the time, and the only “good” reason for any of it exists in the rhetoric of belief structure. As we shall see on this site, the more we investigate it the more proof of this dynamic we find: we don’t just form belief structures we operate through them, that so much of what we are and do is established by them.
Fair to say most of us are familiar with the properties of consciousness, after all we dwell there all the time. Subconsciousness, however, mostly escapes us so it might be worthy to review some its properties. First of all, the neocortex part of the brain is the pride of humanity; it amounts to our upper and frontal lobes which are responsible for many of our most treasured traits: advanced, abstract, rational, analytical thought, planning, language, and so much more that makes us what we are and enables what we have. Deeper within are the limbic regions of the brain, which are responsible for our feelings, emotionalism, behavior, decision making, loyalty, and other things. Those regions and functions more or less draw the line between consciousness and subconsciousness. It implies we mostly do our thinking in consciousness, but mostly act from subconsciousness –which is precisely what works coming out of neuroscience, cognition, and related fields amount to. Leaders in neuroscience Jonathan Haidt (-his outline of how psyche is akin of a man riding an elephant) and Michael Gazzaniga (-his work on “interpreter module” of the brain) describe exactly that, while leadership consultant Simon Sinek’s “Golden Circle” is derived from the insight. Mostly operating from a place that has no capacity for language is an exceptionally pertinent dynamic; its impact on our world is hard to understate.
“The first principal is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool” -Feynman That Feynman quote does not apply to eminent physicists alone. In fact, it’s likely to apply to us here and now, and understanding why is profoundly significant to our world. The reason it applies is the above ultimately adds up to spirituality is a genuine, sincere, fundamental trait of humanity. Defined: spirituality is the predisposition to understand and identify oneself with their origin and relation to the universe. Spirituality is about relationship, and that’s how it occurs to humanity, we know it mostly through our conscious relationship to it. Thus, when we ask humanity what spirituality is we should expect to see the answers converge as they do upon a relation to their deity, relation to universe, relation to family/ancestors, a sense of morality/philosophy, alignment with a greater thing/purpose… The type of relationship described is often multifaceted and is rather profound, addressing the very nature of their beings, the nature of the universe, the nature of our relationship to universe, as well as how it informs them to be worthy of their place… Arguably, the definition offered above well captures both what humanity has been trying to express all along, irrespective of faith, as well as properly identifying it to be a legitimate demonstrable trait of humanity. Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of humanity thinks spirituality is the exclusive domain of religion. Atheists tend to see spirituality as purely a construct of religion (independent of, and completely irrelevant to them), while the religious tend to think there’s virtually no distinction between religious faith and spirituality. However, the properties of humanity rather definitively declare it to be something entirely different. Putting all of the above together reveals spirituality to be a fundamental human trait alone. This of course demotes religion to merely a form of “spiritual path” -a collection of answers and considerations meant to fulfill the requirements spirituality places upon us. The truth is the religious are no more *spiritual* than atheists are; atheists may balk at the term and notion, but they too have looked into the universe to find their place in it, and then have used that information to inform them of their nature and ways of being, as all spiritual beings do; whether or not deity is involved with one’s spirituality is excessively inconsequential to its presence. Feynman also mentioned how clever ‘mother nature’ is, often more clever than we are. Let’s hope we’re exceptionally clever today because we may need to outsmart ourselves.
Spirituality is primarily a subconscious phenomenon. It originates in subconsciousness, compels consciousness to do some research on the universe/world around us for some info on it and our place within. Then subconsciousness takes our research and incorporates those understandings into our beings such that we operate through them by default, often without further consideration. In fact, further consideration is often unwelcome. Once we’ve settled on some understandings it becomes part of us, part of our being, and we’re not usually keen on having our beings challenged. Reviewing where certain aspects of our being lie provides some insight as to why that is. World view/belief structure/spiritual path is born of subconscious urging so it ultimately residing subconsciousness is perfectly reasonable; however, there are consequences to that: it places world view/belief structure/spiritual path in close proximity to our feelings, emotionalism, behavior, decision making, and loyalty while making those understandings distant from language, logic, advanced, abstract, rational, analytical thought. The implications of those consequences more or less define humanity, and our world -more on that later. But first, about being clever: do we have consensus here? Do you find yourself agreeing with this assessment? If not, why not? Could it be a matter brevity? Fortunately, this site endeavors to cover the depth and breadth of spirituality and its implications; spirituality, how it interacts with human psyche, and how they contribute to the state of our world are fully explained here. So that is an issue that is easily overcome. However, there may be other factors hindering consensus, and they have everything to do with the properties of world view.
What “spirituality” is to you is necessarily tied to your spirituality (as explained here), and this content is in contrast to how most of humanity understands the universe/world/ourselves to be. It follows difference of opinion is going to amount to distinctions within world view, the domain of spirituality. And again, these understandings reside in our subconscious minds, essentially a place that has no capacity for language nor is concerned with rational analytics, yet drives emotionalism, loyalty, behavior, decision making, among other things. Not surprising the way psyche usually deals with conflict to world view is to deem the conflict to our own understandings outright wrong then simply brush them off with zero sincere consideration. It doesn’t occur to us in that manner, however; consciously we know the conflict is just plain wrong, the depths of our beings know it to be so… our consciousness may not fully understand it but our subconscious somehow has it figured out and simply knows better. We probably should dig deeper into what our beings are settled on, however. It’s not entirely uncommon for our beings to convinced of things that have negligible support and justification (it can range into the utterly ridiculous at times, fact checking is the job of other areas of our being). In fact, with some awareness of this dynamic, it shouldn’t be too hard to recognize subconsciousness defending its own beliefs in our daily lives, even when faced with a stronger stance, utilizing the tools it has: emotionalism, loyalty, behavior… It’s pretty keen on doing what it has to do to protect itself, leaving consciousness to rationalize it as best as it can, which is the precise function of the “interpreter module of the brain”(as described by Michael Gazzaniga, one of the leading researchers in cognitive neuroscience) -roughly, to make what goes on in our subconsciousness comprehensible and justified to our consciousness. It is the nature of humanity to behave this way. This is the sentient creature’s version of instinct, and we are subject to it just as other creatures are subject to their instinct. It would be reasonable to assume something akin to our consciousness is somehow hardwired to our beings while spirituality gets processed through some type of interface, but this is not the case at all; spirituality is hardwired to our beings, while our consciousness operates on an interface.
[Please note: “spiritual” is taken only to mean “of or pertaining to spirituality”, as defined above. There are no other connotations. Cartesian dualism, for instance, never had any direct association with spirituality. As we now know, spirituality is a fundamental human trait, exclusively. Dualist realms, gods, and all other answers gained through/inspired by spirituality amount to a spiritual path or tenets thereof.]
Edited by Rift Zone (02/01/20 11:19 PM)
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Forrester
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26463280 - 02/01/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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An interesting read (although you should take out the doubled up paragraph, it makes it seem even lengthier than it is).
I'm thinking about this statement:
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Take the religiously devout for instance, they are effectively literal manifestations of their belief structure in a profusion of ways. Atheists are no different; the way they engage existence is a direct result of what they make of it.
In what ways do you mean? I'm just looking at morality for example, and with two such diametrically opposed belief systems you think the resulting moral code if you will would be vastly different. Yet most athiests I've met have a pretty agreeable set of morals, and I could say the same for the devout. While this of course isn't true in all cases, how is it possible for those of such opposing belief structures to end up engaging existence in relatively the same way? Not disagreeing with any of what you said, just pondering...
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Rift Zone
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Forrester]
#26464387 - 02/01/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Forrester said: An interesting read (although you should take out the doubled up paragraph, it makes it seem even lengthier than it is).
I'm thinking about this statement:
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Take the religiously devout for instance, they are effectively literal manifestations of their belief structure in a profusion of ways. Atheists are no different; the way they engage existence is a direct result of what they make of it.
In what ways do you mean? I'm just looking at morality for example, and with two such diametrically opposed belief systems you think the resulting moral code if you will would be vastly different. Yet most athiests I've met have a pretty agreeable set of morals, and I could say the same for the devout. While this of course isn't true in all cases, how is it possible for those of such opposing belief structures to end up engaging existence in relatively the same way? Not disagreeing with any of what you said, just pondering...
Thanks, glad you found it worth while.
oops! Thanks for that too. yea, no need for duplicate paragraphs...not to mention it might flow better if I had the right paragraph in its place. lol
All parties you mention are human, so they'll necessarily have similar trends in world view and how to approach existence. What's meant in that is how much of a grasp world view has upon us. The devoutly religious doing extreme things in the name of their religion is one way we see this, but I actually provided an example for all in the science section. One's scientific understandings necessarily get attached to world view, particularly strong within atheists... So there's a post there that definitively refutes black holes, but rather than be rational people engaging rational science, it largely gets handled like the indoctrinated protecting their faith. We are spiritual beings first, then maybe scientific -it's how humanity rolls; that's what was meant: we run on spirituality (our world views/understandings).
Edited by Rift Zone (02/01/20 11:20 PM)
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Forrester
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26464657 - 02/02/20 05:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rift Zone said: All parties you mention are human, so they'll necessarily have similar trends in world view and how to approach existence. What's meant in that is how much of a grasp world view has upon us. The devoutly religious doing extreme things in the name of their religion is one way we see this, but I actually provided an example for all in the science section. One's scientific understandings necessarily get attached to world view, particularly strong within atheists... So there's a post there that definitively refutes black holes, but rather than be rational people engaging rational science, it largely gets handled like the indoctrinated protecting their faith. We are spiritual beings first, then maybe scientific -it's how humanity rolls; that's what was meant: we run on spirituality (our world views/understandings).
That makes sense! My wife and I talk about that all the time, we're very progressive politically and a lot of the people we listen to/watch on youtube are atheist, and it's funny how some of them knock religion so much but then defend science (which itself doesn't even claim to be the end all; know all of things) as if it were a religion, sometimes even more so, since it's SCIENCE and religion is all "myth and fairy tales"...
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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banquet
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26464661 - 02/02/20 05:20 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rift Zone said: Consciousness is only marginally involved with this, most of what’s going on there involves subconsciousness.
no its not just subconscious
- There is a Subconscious being - that governs your physical being - there is Subliminal being also - this is that which is behind and subconscious being is a part of this or an annex of it, Subliminal is who we are individual - then there is a Superconscient being, that which we call the divine gnosis, this controls everything and is everything, and it is also universal, transcendent and absolute and also what you call the unknowable and non-being...
we can experience them all, although going to the superconscient without subliminal is what we call spiritual liberation into the infinite without a return... it is not advisable before building the bridges
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banquet
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26464665 - 02/02/20 05:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rift Zone said:
Spirituality is primarily a subconscious phenomenon. It originates in subconsciousness,
no it is subconscious (evolutionary fragmented divided ignorant mechanical seeming), subliminal (our inner being - which links the subconscious and superconscious being), waking consciousness (our ordinary surface consciousness), and a secret superconsciousness that governs all
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Rift Zone
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: banquet]
#26464717 - 02/02/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now if you could just talk mother nature into any of that bs, banquet. I'm afraid you're very much deluded.
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Rift Zone
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Forrester]
#26464784 - 02/02/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Forrester said:
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Rift Zone said: All parties you mention are human, so they'll necessarily have similar trends in world view and how to approach existence. What's meant in that is how much of a grasp world view has upon us. The devoutly religious doing extreme things in the name of their religion is one way we see this, but I actually provided an example for all in the science section. One's scientific understandings necessarily get attached to world view, particularly strong within atheists... So there's a post there that definitively refutes black holes, but rather than be rational people engaging rational science, it largely gets handled like the indoctrinated protecting their faith. We are spiritual beings first, then maybe scientific -it's how humanity rolls; that's what was meant: we run on spirituality (our world views/understandings).
That makes sense! My wife and I talk about that all the time, we're very progressive politically and a lot of the people we listen to/watch on youtube are atheist, and it's funny how some of them knock religion so much but then defend science (which itself doesn't even claim to be the end all; know all of things) as if it were a religion, sometimes even more so, since it's SCIENCE and religion is all "myth and fairy tales"...
Yea, there are rather interesting dynamics there. I'd argue atheists align with a path that is inherently more scientific in nature, but they still engage their belief structure in the same way the devout does. I mean, if the "scientific" were sincerely as scientific as they made themselves out to be, then they would be all about any perspective that demonstrates itself to be better representative of physical reality; but no, that's not the case at all. You can see for yourself how demonstrable truth can't challenge atheist world view either.
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Forrester
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26464798 - 02/02/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rift Zone said: Yea, there are rather interesting dynamics there. I'd argue atheists align with a path that is inherently more scientific in nature, but they still engage their belief structure in the same way the devout does. I mean, if the "scientific" were sincerely as scientific as they made themselves out to be, then they would be all about any perspective that demonstrates itself to be better representative of physical reality; but no, that's not the case at all. You can see for yourself how demonstrable truth can't challenge atheist world view either.
Absolutely, gotta agree there.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Svetaketu
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Forrester] 1
#26465054 - 02/02/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rift Zone said: I'd argue atheists align with a path that is inherently more scientific in nature, but they still engage their belief structure in the same way the devout does.
One group uses skepticism & the scientific method, the other pulls out a book from the dark ages and says "this is historical fact; you'll be tortured for eternity if you disagree".
How is that the same?
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I mean, if the "scientific" were sincerely as scientific as they made themselves out to be, then they would be all about any perspective that demonstrates itself to be better representative of physical reality; but no, that's not the case at all. You can see for yourself how demonstrable truth can't challenge atheist world view either.
Where can I see this demonstrable truth for myself? Every critical thinking atheist I've ever met has been more than willing to adjust their world view based on new evidence. Sadly, saying "It really works this way! I feel it so I know I'm right!" Isn't anything near demonstrable.
FWIW, atheism is not a "belief structure" it's specifically the lack of belief in a god, any other beliefs you want to tack onto that are assumptions on your part.
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Forrester
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Svetaketu]
#26465126 - 02/02/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Svetaketu said: Where can I see this demonstrable truth for myself? Every critical thinking atheist I've ever met has been more than willing to adjust their world view based on new evidence. Sadly, saying "It really works this way! I feel it so I know I'm right!" Isn't anything near demonstrable.
To be fair, neither is anecdotal evidence like "every athiest I've ever met". I'm sure athiests can be found on both sides of the coin. Want some demonstrable truth? Look at anything Richard Dawkins ever said...
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26465141 - 02/02/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Families turning their backs on their own members for acting contrary to their beliefs stands as testament to how strong of a force belief structure is. Dissenters within more strict environments face being murdered by their own parents; it happens all the time, and the only “good” reason for any of it exists in the rhetoric of belief structure
Mat10:35-36 This is very evident as ive experienced it so as the elders and an ancient being condemned by its closest bloodline having an understanding of..
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The first principal is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool” -Feynman That Feynman quote does not apply to eminent physicists alone. In fact, it’s likely to apply to us here and now, and understanding why is profoundly significant to our world. The reason it applies is the above ultimately adds up to spirituality is a genuine, sincere, fundamental trait of humanity.
Jam1:22
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Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of humanity thinks spirituality is the exclusive domain of religion. Atheists tend to see spirituality as purely a construct of religion (independent of, and completely irrelevant to them), while the religious tend to think there’s virtually no distinction between religious faith and spirituality. However, the properties of humanity rather definitively declare it to be something entirely different. Putting all of the above together reveals spirituality to be a fundamental human trait alone. This of course demotes religion to merely a form of “spiritual path” -a collection of answers and considerations meant to fulfill the requirements spirituality places upon us
Ive highlighted my favorite part. Unfortunately indeed, I very well agree to this. Its quite sadening Whether in a particular group & branding or not, that most majority are socially condition by supremacist conditioning most specially by man made religion(churchianity). -james 1:26 Not knowingly that religion/religare(greek) in actuality is relation, Us being rebind to the INNER and Outer aswell. considering that spirituality is indeed a human trait alone. I do find having a relation & binding along the path is of good-cause interms of spirituality in my part.
profound and well put up in words, that touched my heathen's/ethnic perspective of the past very well. Thanks for sharing.
Edited by pacmanbreed (02/02/20 11:57 AM)
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Rift Zone
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: pacmanbreed] 1
#26465144 - 02/02/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Svetaketu said:
One group uses skepticism & the scientific method, the other pulls out a book from the dark ages and says "this is historical fact; you'll be tortured for eternity if you disagree".
How is that the same? ... Where can I see this demonstrable truth for myself? Every critical thinking atheist I've ever met has been more than willing to adjust their world view based on new evidence. Sadly, saying "It really works this way! I feel it so I know I'm right!" Isn't anything near demonstrable.
FWIW, atheism is not a "belief structure" it's specifically the lack of belief in a god, any other beliefs you want to tack onto that are assumptions on your part.
You can find that in the "Black Holes Do Not Exist" thread in the science section. I know what atheism is;I'm a life-long atheist, and am really good with complex systems that interact non-linearly. My awareness of the situation is better than most.
Quote:
pacmanbreed said: Ive highlighted my favorite part. Unfortunately indeed, I very well agree to this. Its quite sadening Whether in a particular group & branding or not, that most majority are socially condition by supremacist conditioning most specially by man made religion(churchianity). -james 1:26 Not knowingly that religion/religare(greek) in actuality is relation, Us being rebind to the INNER and Outer aswell. considering that spirituality is indeed a human trait alone. I do find having a relation & binding along the path is of good-cause interms of spirituality in my part.
profound and well put up in words, that touched my heathen's/ethnic perspective of the past very well. Thanks for sharing. 
Thanks for that! glad you found some value in it... yea, funny things going on out there. hopefully we can sort some of it out.
Edited by Rift Zone (02/02/20 12:58 PM)
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Svetaketu
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26465294 - 02/02/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Forrester said:
To be fair, neither is anecdotal evidence like "every athiest I've ever met". I'm sure athiests can be found on both sides of the coin. Want some demonstrable truth? Look at anything Richard Dawkins ever said...
I'm not making the claim that all atheists are reasonable and convincible, I've met a few seriously confused atheists.
To be honest I finished reading the OP after typing that... I guess I was low-key triggered by the sentiment that;
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You can see for yourself how demonstrable truth can't challenge atheist world view either.
This stood out to me because it assumes that the core of my belief system is Atheism, from which everything else grew (which I agree is often the case with the heavily religious); whereas for myself and others I've met, objective truth is the center of my belief system; my Atheism stems from my search for the objective facts of reality. If new evidence were unearthed, my label would change. So to suggest that I would ignore demonstrable truth in favor of some kind of dogmatic Atheism is mildly offensive.
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Look at anything Richard Dawkins ever said...
what? Your saying that Richard dawkins is demonstrably correct in everything he ever said? I think I lost your point in the pudding there.
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Rift Zone said: You can find that in the "Black Holes Do Not Exist" thread in the science section. I know what atheism is.
Cool, down the rabbit hole I go.
Didn't mean to assume you didn't; perhaps I misunderstood the verbiage.
Overall I agree with the OP; what you believe will greatly affect your outlook and decision making, and we do not have conscious control over the effects of our beliefs.
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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Forrester
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Svetaketu]
#26465361 - 02/02/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Svetaketu said: This stood out to me because it assumes that the core of my belief system is Atheism, from which everything else grew (which I agree is often the case with the heavily religious); whereas for myself and others I've met, objective truth is the center of my belief system; my Atheism stems from my search for the objective facts of reality. If new evidence were unearthed, my label would change. So to suggest that I would ignore demonstrable truth in favor of some kind of dogmatic Atheism is mildly offensive.
Understandable.
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Svetaketu said: what? Your saying that Richard dawkins is demonstrably correct in everything he ever said? I think I lost your point in the pudding there.
No, no, I must have not been clear at all, or I misunderstood what you said. I meant he defends atheism just as dogmatically as (some) super-religious defend their beliefs. I find these types of defense, or any defense at all really of atheism as a "fact", completely illogical as it's impossible to prove a negative. I mean you can argue all day that there isn't proof that god exists, and that's fine. You can say nobody knows, that's fine as well. But you can't ever say, emphatically, that you know god doesn't exist, just because you haven't seen proof. Yet people do. It's illogical that's all. Not to have the belief, but to argue it.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Rift Zone
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Svetaketu]
#26465397 - 02/02/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Svetaketu said: Cool, down the rabbit hole I go.
Didn't mean to assume you didn't; perhaps I misunderstood the verbiage.
Overall I agree with the OP; what you believe will greatly affect your outlook and decision making, and we do not have conscious control over the effects of our beliefs.
Nice. Sorry if I came off wrong. Cool... glad to see we have some consensus. Hopefully we'll find even more of it in that thread.
Edited by Rift Zone (02/02/20 02:15 PM)
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑



Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Rift Zone]
#26465464 - 02/02/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: No, no, I must have not been clear at all, or I misunderstood what you said. I meant he defends atheism just as dogmatically as (some) super-religious defend their beliefs. I find these types of defense, or any defense at all really of atheism as a "fact", completely illogical as it's impossible to prove a negative. I mean you can argue all day that there isn't proof that god exists, and that's fine. You can say nobody knows, that's fine as well. But you can't ever say, emphatically, that you know god doesn't exist, just because you haven't seen proof. Yet people do. It's illogical that's all. Not to have the belief, but to argue it.
Okay yeah, I get the point you're making there. Unfalsifiable claim and all. I prefer Hitchens to Dawkins 
I think us atheists would leave it alone if we thought it might go away, but that's difficult to do; from my perspective religion is a disease, and it feels apathetic to not try and help in any way I can.
Quote:
Rift Zone said: Nice. Sorry if I came off wrong. Cool... glad to see we have some consensus. Hopefully we'll find even more of it in that thread.
No worries, clear and to the point is how I like it
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Svetaketu]
#26465493 - 02/02/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: I think us atheists would leave it alone if we thought it might go away, but that's difficult to do; from my perspective religion is a disease, and it feels apathetic to not try and help in any way I can.
I know the feeling, those of us on the other side often feel compelled to to help as well, hopefully "saving" you from a meaningless existence, but we all know how well that usually works out 
I do find solace in the fact that both of our camps care enough for the other to well, care at least, and regardless of what belief system you have you can still have a good set of morals and be a good person.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑



Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Forrester]
#26465512 - 02/02/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: I know the feeling, those of us on the other side often feel compelled to to help as well, hopefully "saving" you from a meaningless existence, but we all know how well that usually works out 
I do find solace in the fact that both of our camps care enough for the other to well, care at least, and regardless of what belief system you have you can still have a good set of morals and be a good person. 
A beautiful sentiment, perhaps there is hope yet for humanity
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
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Re: Spirituality is a fundamental human trait! [Re: Svetaketu]
#26465596 - 02/02/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edited by pacmanbreed (02/02/20 04:51 PM)
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