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OfflineTokeItUp12
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Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic
    #26456161 - 01/28/20 01:21 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

While I know cannabis is not a true psychedelic and is not capable of full on hallucinations or ego dissolution, I've always thought of cannabis as a close relative to psychedelics. I've been smoking for the past 9 years and habitually for the last 3 but it wasnt until I started getting familiar with LSD and Mushrooms that I saw similarities between cannabis and psychedelics (mushrooms more than LSD). I've noticed that mushrooms and LSD cause me to view the world and my immediate surroundings as if they were completely foreign or alien to me. This is something Cannabis has also always done for me, especially at first. I also feel as though cannabis gives me more abstract thought patterns and enhanced perspectives which are trademark experiences of shrooms and LSD in my Opinion. However, I think the true difference is in the fact that cannabis has a limit to how deep you can go but psyches do not. In high doses of cannabis one will likely just green-out or pass out. In high doses of psychedelics, the possibilities are limitless. I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts!


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TokeItUp12]
    #26456173 - 01/28/20 01:58 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Cannabis is techniquely considered a psychedelic yes. Ive had psychedelic experiences on weed alone, mostly from my early days when I just starting to smoke it.

According to Erowid, cannabis (weed) is considered a mild psychedelic. I would argue, in general, it definitely seems like a mild psychedelic, especially when u develop a tolerance to it over time.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TokeItUp12] * 2
    #26456183 - 01/28/20 02:18 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Depends on how you define psychedelic. Technically, psychedelics are 5HT2A agonists, which weed is not. So if you go by the scientific definition then no.

But if you smoke enough weed shit gets pretty weird and hallucinatory, so in that sense maybe kinda? I would call it a cannabinoid rather than a psychedelic, or maybe even a hallucinogen at high enough dose. Still, it can cause psychedelic flashbacks so maybe there's something to be said for calling it "mildly psychedelic."


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OfflineAZZI
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: nooneman]
    #26456425 - 01/28/20 08:05 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I've always thought so. I call it a psychotropic


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: AZZI]
    #26456579 - 01/28/20 10:22 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

depends on why you need to categorize.

if it is about psychedelic effects, it has all of them.
if it is about molecular structures and binding sites, then you might be considering all psychedelic binding sites or just a few, and you would want to be accurate so you would be explicit about the binding sites.
if it is about ROI and onset of effects it is a bit unique
if it is about residue lingering in the body after effects it can be troubling (eg at a drug test)
if it is about duration, I think it is up there with the other main ones such as shrooms and acid.
it is more psychedelic in most cases than MDMA but less stimulant.

so really it depends on the purpose of the category, and since it fits several, I give it it's own category except when talking about net effects. i.e. if someone is freaking on acid, I would say that cannabis will add psychedelic effects, though others may hope it would be a sedative.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: AZZI] * 1
    #26456601 - 01/28/20 10:36 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

My take on this, is that most people are often times unaware of the Psychedelic potential of Cannabis, at least until they gain familiarity with actual Psychedelics, then something about how you respond to Cannabis changes. Imo it has to do with the Glutamatergic system, it's like Psychedelics come in and expand one's capacity within the Glutamatergic system, and Cannabis has the capability to work similarly on the Glutamatergic system somehow, so that when you then smoke Cannabis, it brings out that expanded Glutamatergic access, and in a way reconnects you to/with it or works through similar pathways within the Glutamatergic system. It's been shown that Psychedelics via activation of the Serotonin 2A receptor interacts with the Glutamatergic system, and Cannabis through the CB1 receptor also interacts/crosstalks with the Glutamatergic system, hence it can then bring about more Psychedelically-inclined kinds of effects and experiences, particularly for those who've gone deep with Psychedelics.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TokeItUp12]
    #26456643 - 01/28/20 11:07 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

TokeItUp12 said:
While I know cannabis is not a true psychedelic and is not capable of full on hallucinations or ego dissolution, I've always thought of cannabis as a close relative to psychedelics. I've been smoking for the past 9 years and habitually for the last 3 but it wasnt until I started getting familiar with LSD and Mushrooms that I saw similarities between cannabis and psychedelics (mushrooms more than LSD). I've noticed that mushrooms and LSD cause me to view the world and my immediate surroundings as if they were completely foreign or alien to me. This is something Cannabis has also always done for me, especially at first. I also feel as though cannabis gives me more abstract thought patterns and enhanced perspectives which are trademark experiences of shrooms and LSD in my Opinion. However, I think the true difference is in the fact that cannabis has a limit to how deep you can go but psyches do not. In high doses of cannabis one will likely just green-out or pass out. In high doses of psychedelics, the possibilities are limitless. I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts!




Well it's pretty fucking close to other psychedelics especially if you haven't got overconsumption going on. And I had like a 10 year habit back in the day.

It seems to get about halfway to hyperspace for me - enough to give a taste of what I'm familiar with from mushrooms but not the full immersive experience.  This is probably why a lot of people find it potentiates tryptamines (as if they needed that :laugh2:). 

I too find it gives rise to impressive trains of thought - but I can never really hang onto them, which sucks.  :shrug:

I like the body effect and total relaxation though of some modern potent strains - IME they facilitate the download of body-work maps and other such tools which is a powerful aspect. At least that's what it feels like at the time - perhaps its just central nervous system mappings that are inherent but usually unrecognized, I really can't say.

But if I have plenty mushrooms I really don't care about it anymore. :snoopyes:


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Edited by PrimalSoup (01/28/20 11:18 AM)


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26456741 - 01/28/20 12:15 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Cannabis is certainly a hallucinogen. Auditory hallucinations are common, and hallucination of the sense of time is almost always present. Whether you consider it a psychedelic really depends on your definition of psychedelic, but the medical community seems to agree that it is one.

It certainly acts similarly to the serotonergic psychedelics, which act on the serotonin receptors in your brain and cause them to fire when they "shouldn't" be. Marijuana affects the cannabinoid receptors, which regulate how fast neurons should fire. So when you flood your brain with artificial cannabinoids, neurons start firing when they shouldn't be. This causes thought loops and dopamine release and other classic marijuana effects. Now, it's not as intense as a psychedelic (even with excess cannabinoids neurons that would never have fired in the first place are unlikely to fire), and it affects different areas of the brain, but they're certainly similar.


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OfflineTokeItUp12
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26456846 - 01/28/20 01:16 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

That's a good explanation of why cannabis may produce a psychedelic experience even though it works differently, biochemically speaking, than classic psychedelics.


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OfflineTokeItUp12
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26456860 - 01/28/20 01:22 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I think you made a good point when you mentioned overconsumption and how it relates to the psychedelic nature of cannabis. When I first started smoking, I would trip pretty hard (only in my head, no visuals). Now that I have done actual psyches as well I can confirm that many of my early cannabis experiences were more of a trip than a high. I started smoking in 2011 and at that point, cannabis had already become ultra potent so it makes sense.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TokeItUp12]
    #26456866 - 01/28/20 01:31 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Other drugs like XTC and nitrous can be psychedelic too, even thou they are technically in a different drug class. Mind introspection is common on other non-psychedelic drugs. Theres overlap in the definition.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TokeItUp12] * 1
    #26456871 - 01/28/20 01:35 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

TokeItUp12 said:
While I know cannabis is not a true psychedelic and is not capable of full on hallucinations or ego dissolution...





It absolutely is capable of causing full on hallucinations and ego dissolution.

In fact...Cannabis is the only drug that has given me full on open eye "true" hallucinations. (it was the 3rd time I smoked, a strong sativa and with no tolerance).



With little to no tolerance and with a high enough dose, and with certain strains/varieties, cannabis can be incredibly powerful and psychedelic.

I find it to not only be psychedelic in high doses but also dissociating.



To answer the topic of the thread...Yes, I do categorize cannabis as having psychedelic properties/psychedelic potential. But with tolerance and with the amounts that most people work with, and with most of the strains/varieties that are popular these days, the psychedelic aspects usually aren't all that pronounced.



Some of my very first psychedelic experiences were with cannabis and music....taken on full on journeys.




-OM

.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: openmind]
    #26456899 - 01/28/20 01:52 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

:whathesaid:


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That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: Korean Jesus] * 1
    #26456916 - 01/28/20 02:01 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Edibles are definitely on the psychedelic spectrum. The first time i ever took cannabis i drank some bhang and went into a long trip with very vivid CEVs - more intricate than many of my mushroom trips. This may have something to do with the liver metabolizing orally ingested THC into another molecule which has more trippy effects. I haven't looked into the objective science of it mind you.

But i agree there seems to be an upper limit of how far out you can go with weed; it doesn't really drop your fundamental boundaries as much as the classic psyches. Unless perhaps if you do like 500mg+ with no tolerance and have an anxiety induced OBE


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OfflineShroomus
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: TheEschatologist] * 1
    #26457116 - 01/28/20 03:49 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

I'd strongly agree with that.

At higher doses I've always found the experience to feel like a 'trip', as it creates such a strong sense that the world is 'different', but without the visual effects of LSD or Mushrooms. For me, everything feels a little bit off, as though I'm in a computer simulation, which they managed to get 99% accurate, but couldn't quite get right! It's overwhelming at times but I just embrace the madness and head off for a walk.

I don't really experience strong OEVs but have seen subtle flowing movements in wallpaper and ceiling patterns. Duration for me is usually 8-12 hours. I'm unsure of the dosage in 'mg', (I just glug two tablespoons of home-made canna-coconut oil!), but rough guess is maybe 400-600mg.

Your bhang experience sounds bloody awesome!


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OfflineTokeItUp12
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: openmind] * 1
    #26457519 - 01/28/20 07:42 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:



Some of my very first psychedelic experiences were with cannabis and music....taken on full on journeys.

.




I couldn't agree more. My first time pairing LSD and Mushrooms with music I was underwhelmed compared to the first time I smoked some potent cannabis, put in some earbuds and closed my eyes


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26457795 - 01/28/20 11:28 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
and hallucination of the sense of time is almost always present.




Oh yeah, missed that.  It's not as profound as mushrooms where time can essentially stop but things almost ALWAYS take several times longer, subjectively.

And I've had excellent classical hallucinations while solely under the influence of various types of weed (hash mostly).  :cookiemonster:


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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26457896 - 01/29/20 02:27 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

A psychedelic hallucinogen which morphs the psychedelia is more in the genetic structure of stimulant to depressant or
As a depressant canabis multiplies, as a stimulant there is synchronization …


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Edited by Rangiku (01/29/20 02:32 AM)


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: Rangiku]
    #26458051 - 01/29/20 06:41 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Cannabis is more psychedelic the more I work with it. Just being around the plant causes psychedelic effects for me.


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Re: Can Cannabis be categorized as psychedelic [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #26458066 - 01/29/20 07:03 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

By some of these definitions, cold medicines are psychedelics as well


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