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OfflineDandyfap
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Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster?
    #26454926 - 01/27/20 10:29 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Hello everyone! I've been contemplating the difference between the needs of hobby growers vs commercial.  I would say that while the needs of commercial growers is to fine tune economic efficiency, the needs of hobby growers is to decrease the bottleneck of pressure cooking.  To that end, do you think it would be more advantageous to pressure cook only grain, and then add it at 1 quart to 5 pound bag to be not only spawn but also supplement? That way you would only have to pc 1l mason spawn, and pasteurize the hardwood pellets only - a la lipas tek.  I'm using rye spawn from agar.  Do you think that would be an efficient workflow for oyster, lion's mane and shiitake?  Would it be worse yields than 20% bran and sterilizing?

Pcing bags is annoying honestly.  It takes 3 hours.  It's super tight fit to get 4 5lbs bags.  The bags have to be squeezed out of air and folded just right, etc. However in 90 minutes you can pleasantly pc 7 1l jars of grain, which is 7 5lb bags. You could do 14 5lbs bags worth in the time it takes to do 4 5lb bags.  Just thinking out loud here.


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InvisibleDiego


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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Dandyfap]
    #26454951 - 01/27/20 10:53 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)



--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Diego]
    #26455552 - 01/27/20 04:47 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

I could be wrong but sounds like he isn't doing that many bags, yet.

The bran supplementation is to get more from just sawdust. And adding gypsum is to get even more from that. If you are doing just HWFP and bran with or without the sprinkle of gypsum, you can get 3 - 5 lb bags per layer in a presto 21 or 23 qt PC for a total of 6 bags. And run them for 2 hours and be fine. Make sure you put a ring or small spacer of some sort in the middle of the bags and a ring or spacer on the side of the bags facing the wall of the PC. They should fold up normally without having to squeeze all the air out, but fitting the 3rd bag in will be a squeeze but easy. But if you go to HWFP and SOY then you will only fit in 4 bags because they are fluffier. And then you would have to go 3 hours.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: seagu]
    #26455847 - 01/27/20 07:25 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I am confused are you trying to grow mushrooms or mold. If you are trying to grow mold it will definitely work. Grain needs to be sterilized!! All of it not just some of it.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26455859 - 01/27/20 07:33 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I am sorry I didn't mean to be so harsh. I apologize. If you have a 23 quart presto PC just do Two 5 lb bags of grain. Those two 5 lb bags of grain will colonize at least forty 5 lb bags of sub. That's at least 60 lbs of mushrooms for about 3 hours.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Dandyfap] * 1
    #26455861 - 01/27/20 07:34 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I think you misread the post...

Quote:

Dandyfap said:
...pressure cook only grain, and then add it at 1 quart to 5 pound bag to be not only spawn but also supplement? That way you would only have to pc 1l mason spawn, and pasteurize the hardwood pellets only - a la lipas tek.  ...





Correct if I'm wrong but I believe the OP is simply referring to using a higher spawn rate to supplement, instead of bran.  Nowhere did he mention using unsterilized grain for anything.  The grain (all of it) gets sterilized.  The substrate (HWFP) gets pasteurized.  No?

It's quite commonly done, works fine (as long as you don't care about the cost of grain), and is a great way to not have to sterilize a whole substrate.

OP I don't believe even using a full quart of spawn for one bag is gonna be quite what 80/20 with bran would be.  Not sure exactly how much spawn it would take, but play around and see what you get!


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Forrester]
    #26455879 - 01/27/20 07:43 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the correction. I was really confused. I think it will cost more, in the long run, doing it that way. But keep us posted. The only way new things are learned is by people trying new things. If you can find soyhulls use them. The flushes are better and you save a lot of time. It takes me about a minute to make a 5 lb bag. That is putting everything in the bag adding water folding the bag and putting it in the steamer.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26456066 - 01/27/20 09:46 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

You could design and build a mini steamer. Or just get a 2nd 23 qt pc and do 12 bran supplemented bags at once.. if you don't plan on doing enough bags for a 55 gallon steamer.

Guess it all depends on if you are planning for hobby or commercial goals?


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineDandyfap
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: seagu]
    #26456158 - 01/28/20 01:15 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Well, I don't really care about the price of grain to be honest.  1L of grain is 200g of rye.  I can buy organic rye for $40/20kg.  So that's like 100 1l jars of spawn?  40 cents each?

I started off trying to skip agar and spawn.  I injected a bunch of master's mix bags with lion's mane and pink oyster LC i bought.  The all failed eventually.  It took weeks to see signs of growth, and by then the contams got them.  I think I under innoc'd using only 2ml of LC per 5 pound bag.  So now I've taken a step back, got my agar game going.  Grew 3 generations out on agar and just transfered to grain spawn.  I figure if I can only have to pc grain spawn it would be way faster.  Plus dumping a liter of grain into a bag must make for a fast turn around.  I'm thinking to keep the agar going, split one plate into two grain spawns, and then use lipa tek.

Shiitake I read doesn't like too much supplement, so maybe I'd only add half a litre per bag.  The lion's mane maybe the whole litre? Oyster I'm not sure. 

If grain provides as much suppliment as bran, then 1L (1lb ish) of spawn would be 18% supplement to 5lbs of HWFP.  .5L would be 9%.

Is this sound?  Would you guys skip the spawn instead, PC the supplemented bags, and only use a plate of agar per bag to inoc?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Dandyfap]
    #26456319 - 01/28/20 06:30 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

a liter of spawn for a 5lb for shiitake is what i used to always use.  I only got mutants on one block of one culture, all my other shiitake cultures were fine with that supplementation rate.

I would use the whole liter for lion's mane, and oyster as well.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineDandyfap
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Forrester]
    #26457806 - 01/28/20 11:46 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Thanks Forrester, I liked your oyster journal! seems like you put 2l of spawn in a 5g pail.  My ultimate goal is pails, should i skip the bag and do what you did?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Dandyfap]
    #26458184 - 01/29/20 08:48 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

I never did lion's mane in buckets but I don't see why it wouldn't work.  Actually I just bought a pound of them from whole foods and I'm pretty sure they were grown in a bucket, I had to examine the substrate stuck on them and it was circle shaped about the right size :lol:

If you've got the space for fruiting them, I'd definitely recommend buckets!  They worked awesome for the few species I tried that way, especially oysters.  Lipa's tek works great, you just might have to work with the water content a bit, it doesn't scale up evenly from what you use in bags, since the substrate is so big and heavy, water gathers at the bottom of buckets so you have to use less.  I also cut a small hole in the bottom to drain water if there's any excess.

Super fun and easy with buckets.  If you give em a try and have any more questions, I can help!


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSpindlymass
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Forrester]
    #26458389 - 01/29/20 11:24 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

If GH space etc is a concern, I've put holes in Ziploc twist n loc containers, aka "Muda Bottles". It works great. The fruits tend to be smaller because of the smaller sub size, but they're easy to maneuver.

Like this :smile: :



*It doesn't address the need for bulk, just thought I would share regarding the buckets. :shrug:


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Edited by Spindlymass (01/29/20 11:26 AM)


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Offlinetrubblesome
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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: Dandyfap]
    #26458396 - 01/29/20 11:30 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Dandyfap said:


Is this sound?  Would you guys skip the spawn instead, PC the supplemented bags, and only use a plate of agar per bag to inoc?





as far as I know, I don't think anyone puts plates directly to master's mix/hwfp/etc.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Easier way to grow lion's mane/shiitake/oyster? [Re: trubblesome]
    #26458442 - 01/29/20 12:13 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

trubblesome said:
Quote:

Dandyfap said:


Is this sound?  Would you guys skip the spawn instead, PC the supplemented bags, and only use a plate of agar per bag to inoc?





as far as I know, I don't think anyone puts plates directly to master's mix/hwfp/etc.




I almost did that.. just cause to see what would happen on the aggregate. Even if it takes a total of 3 weeks to colonize. It skips a step and starting from ground zero with nothing growing it seemed quicker to have fruits. And seems easier and quicker and cheaper to make a bunch of plates, although I suppose pouring grain to sub is just slightly quicker than cutting a section of a plate but not much I think. But on a large scale would provide a bottleneck. But that would require longer incubation time and more storage space. Although, taking a look at these things I mention, the vast amount of people say no to this method and yes to only using grain to sub and not agar to sub. Also, I think if someone was to do this agar to sub it would only possibly work well with certain subs as you would I think realistically need to do the 20-30% mix as is usually done on grains. Not all subs would be amenable to this method and like I said on a bigger scale would become a bottleneck...


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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