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OfflineG-Spot
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PF TEK, Advice needed * 1
    #26455493 - 01/27/20 04:00 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Dear growers,
I’m in need of voices of experience.
I’m just getting ready for the PF TEK.
Made holes in the jars.
Got a base to get the jars off from water in the PC.
Did the mix o 2:1:1.

Stopped in the mix and became full of doubts if this is right.
The consistency of the mix is much like mud.
The field capacity seems to be spot on but on the other photos I see from PF TEK cakes the visual aspect of it seems to be much more granulated not so much like mud.

Can you guys give it a look and feedback?

















Om shanti!


Edited by G-Spot (01/27/20 04:20 PM)


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InvisibleAcuriousmycologist
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26455522 - 01/27/20 04:21 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

You didn't get the ingredients around the wrong way (2 BRF:1 verm)? The other thing is to ensure you aren't packing it down, you can squeeze tp check field capacity but the fluff it up again.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #26455529 - 01/27/20 04:29 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

2 parts verm, then 1 part water, then 1 part BRF.

When mixing I did it like I was mixing a dough for a cake or a pizza. This is saying I used my hands and I did use some force to ensure the mixing is throughly.

It looks weird doesn’t it?

The mixture stay very easily compacted..! It’s not airy or fluffy at all.
In the o picture of the filled up jar you see, I tried to crumble it up. But still, it looks as it looks. It doesn’t crumble much, it stays together like glue. :rolleyes:


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot] * 1
    #26455560 - 01/27/20 04:51 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Toss that and try again. I am with the other poster, looks like 5 parts BRF 2 parts Verm and 2 parts water.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Sockadin]
    #26455569 - 01/27/20 04:58 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Will try.

I used the same coffee cup as a measurement tool. So I think there some other factor here..!

Do you guys think it was because I mixed it with too much force?

Speculation - Too much force would make the verm disincorporate, making it more similar to flour and resulting in this mess. (?)


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26455828 - 01/27/20 07:20 PM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Yeah definitely start over. The consistency should feel like damp sand from a beach near the water. You do not want wet PF mixture! Has to be damp only.

I find that having two separate measuring cups works best. One for flour and one for water only. Its nice to have a set.

My mix is:

2/3 cup vermiculite first
1/4 cup water next
1/4 cup BRF last

Then mix well with a spoon then your hands.

Works perfect for me.


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Offlinebootedboy
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26456022 - 01/27/20 09:00 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah that is, for lack of a better term, totally fucked. What kind of verm are you using? Secondly it should mix very easily and require little to no force. The consistency will be somewhat like slightly damp potting soil. If you don't have any measuring cups two identical cylindrical containers like mugs that you mentioned will work fine, one for the water and the other for the dry ingredients. Good luck and keep us posted!


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InvisibleZiran
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: bootedboy]
    #26456198 - 01/28/20 02:42 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

did you put foil on your lid?

the foil on the lid is to keep the moisture out when you PC or steam your jars.

also, mix the verm with water first, then add the BRF.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Ziran]
    #26456206 - 01/28/20 02:55 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Just tried again.
Looks better..! But still not perfect, I would say.
I mixed them much more gently, didn’t use hands, used wooden spoon.

Hi Ziran! I’m following your updated PF TEK guide :wink:

This is still before PC’ing them. I’m still just making the mix.

Here follow some pictures.
I also include the Verm that I’m using and the flour.

What do you guys think?
Maybe I should reduce a bit on water ratio?













Edited by G-Spot (01/28/20 03:03 AM)


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456214 - 01/28/20 03:19 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

This is a photo from the cake when turned up side down after it had been sitting in the jar for more than 10mins.



It looks too wet.
Should I add more verm or BRF to achieve a desired consistency and state?

Also, Can I add verm or BRF to make adjustments after the mix is done?
Or does one need to start over?


Edited by G-Spot (01/28/20 03:23 AM)


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456232 - 01/28/20 03:57 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

| have added more verm to the mix that’s was already done.
The mix was already getting more dry from being airing/sitting.
With the added verm it looks much better. The spoon even gained a smiley face!!! :smile:
Should it even have more verm? Should it be even more dry?





Apart from that.
This is the PC I have. I have never used a PC. (I’m a Mac user, ahaha)
It has no valve. To clear my mind of doubts. I turn the PC on and let it on venting for 10mins aprox. After that I add this two 50KPa valves (equals more or less to 7.5 psi each). I only start the clock for 60mins when this 50KPa valves start hissing??





Edited by G-Spot (01/28/20 03:58 AM)


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456290 - 01/28/20 05:47 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Still too wet. It shouldnt be chunky like that. What are your mixing amounts? Do u add the BRF last?


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26456295 - 01/28/20 05:53 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

I’m doing 2:1:1.

In the last photo I have added more verm. So maybe it is something like 2.5:1:1

And yes, I’m adding the BRF last after adding the water to the verm.

I have another verm that is less chunky. Will try to use that instead and see the results.
Will also try to put this verm into a blender, do the mix and see the results.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot] * 1
    #26456363 - 01/28/20 07:14 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Now I think the problem is really the size of the verm.

I tried to make the verm smaller but it’s still to chunky.

Tried to use a finer smaller verm and it looks much better!
Is this now in an ideal condition?

Small verm mix




Jar on the left = bigger mix that I tried to make smaller (feels humid to the touch)
Jar on the right = smaller verm mix (feels like sand)



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OfflineNeowynd8
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456427 - 01/28/20 08:08 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Seems whiter than most I've seen... usually more brownish...maybe you need a coarser verm. Last batch looks like it may get work


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OfflinePs.NoName
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Neowynd8]
    #26456460 - 01/28/20 08:43 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Double check you actually are using Vermiculite cuz it looks like Perlite.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Ps.NoName]
    #26456464 - 01/28/20 08:49 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Neowynd8, coarser means finer or bigger?
I also have that feeling that the last batch can pull it off (;

Ps.NoName, I have posted a picture of the verm that I’m using.
Yes, in the final mix it’s kinda of doubtful, looks whiter than most example I could find. Don’t know why but the organic flour that I’m using does seem to be ‘strong’.

Verm


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OfflinePs.NoName
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456471 - 01/28/20 08:54 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

I guess it was the picture exposure makes it look whiter like perlite.

Instead of brown rice flour I always coffee ground whole brown rice.  I would buy whatever brown rice looked the best and/or had the most calories by weight.  Uncle Ben's or some Asian brand usually. Works fine.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Ps.NoName]
    #26456477 - 01/28/20 08:58 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Yes, I though about doing that process...!
Didn’t want to buy a grinder so I choose to just buy flour.
But for sure in the long run it might be worth it to switch to that process of myself grinding the brown rice. (:


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OfflineNeowynd8
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456598 - 01/28/20 10:35 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

G-Spot said:
Neowynd8, coarser means finer or bigger?
I also have that feeling that the last batch can pull it off (;

Ps.NoName, I have posted a picture of the verm that I’m using.
Yes, in the final mix it’s kinda of doubtful, looks whiter than most example I could find. Don’t know why but the organic flour that I’m using does seem to be ‘strong’.

Verm




Bigger


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: Neowynd8]
    #26456608 - 01/28/20 10:39 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Hmmm. But the coarser verm that I have is the one that’s is giving me more problems.. It doesn’t seem to absorb so much water and so, in the ratio os 2:1:1, the substrate/final mix results in something too wet to work with :/
This verm becomes more workable, like you said “ Last batch looks like it may get work”, when finer.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot] * 1
    #26456644 - 01/28/20 11:07 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

G-Spot said:
Now I think the problem is really the size of the verm.

I tried to make the verm smaller but it’s still to chunky.

Tried to use a finer smaller verm and it looks much better!
Is this now in an ideal condition?

Small verm mix




Jar on the left = bigger mix that I tried to make smaller (feels humid to the touch)
Jar on the right = smaller verm mix (feels like sand)






This is looking much better. The jar on the right on that last photo is what it should look like.

Ive used a coffee grinder to blend up vermiculite to a fine powder, then i mix it about 50/50 back with the unground stuff. I find that works well for making a more finer, less chunky mix.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26456648 - 01/28/20 11:10 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Thank you!!

Will give it a go :laugh:


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26456654 - 01/28/20 11:13 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Good luck and post some pics of your jars before U PC them. For reference :thumbup:


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26459576 - 01/30/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So, here goes an update.

Did the substrate to fill my jars.
PC’ed them.
Inoculated them.
Placed them in a spot under ‘optimal’ conditions.

This is a jar filled up with substrate before PC.


Substrate


Two jars already with dry verm on top and one without
(Some jars got substrate chunkier than others..!)


Foil after PC, some little humidity inside is noticeable


Jar after PC, condensation inside the jar is noticeable




One of my fears was that there wouldn’t be enough water in the PC.
First time using it. But there was actually plenty.


Although there was still plenty of water in the PC, the center of it got black(?)
Might have been simply because is the area were the electric heating disc was or because the aluminium spacer that I used was blocking the water from the borders into the center.
Will dent the spacer just enough to have this doubt cleared off.


This is the jar 24 hours after inoculation. The condensation is gone.


They are in an environment with 6000k light. This RH. And temperature that oscillates between 20 to 24 degrees Celsius. (68- 75 F).
Question: It is ok that the temperature is not stable but is oscillates?


After inoculation I didn’t remove the MP tape.
Should I remove or is it just fine like this?


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Offlinebootedboy
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26460281 - 01/30/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Several things, first off your mixture is looking much much better. Secondly the temperature changes should be just fine and the RH doesn't really matter during colonization. Two more pressing matters, you don't want light during colonization, and did you use a dry verm layer on top of the jars, if not you are gonna wanna put another layer of micropore tape on asap cause otherwise your jars are open to contamination.


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OfflineG-Spot
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: bootedboy]
    #26460424 - 01/30/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bootedboy said:
Several things, first off your mixture is looking much much better. Secondly the temperature changes should be just fine and the RH doesn't really matter during colonization. Two more pressing matters, you don't want light during colonization, and did you use a dry verm layer on top of the jars, if not you are gonna wanna put another layer of micropore tape on asap cause otherwise your jars are open to contamination.




Nice, thanks :smile:)

Hmm, | did put dry verm on top of the substrate. But on another hand..! I would enjoy to not run risks of contamination, would it block too much GE having both dry verm and micropore tape? Considering it to decrease changes of molds..!

In the matter of light. By my research it shows up that lights I actually good.
Both RR and TranscendingLight have stated that it helps in reducing colonization time.


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InvisibleZiran
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26461136 - 01/30/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

you need to foil your lids when you PC them.


--------------------
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:super: Updated Pf Tek Guide :super:
Ziran's Teks
AMU Q&A Thread
The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.



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Offlinebootedboy
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Re: PF TEK, Advice needed [Re: G-Spot]
    #26461715 - 01/31/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

G-Spot said:
Quote:

bootedboy said:
Several things, first off your mixture is looking much much better. Secondly the temperature changes should be just fine and the RH doesn't really matter during colonization. Two more pressing matters, you don't want light during colonization, and did you use a dry verm layer on top of the jars, if not you are gonna wanna put another layer of micropore tape on asap cause otherwise your jars are open to contamination.




Nice, thanks :smile:)

Hmm, | did put dry verm on top of the substrate. But on another hand..! I would enjoy to not run risks of contamination, would it block too much GE having both dry verm and micropore tape? Considering it to decrease changes of molds..!

In the matter of light. By my research it shows up that lights I actually good.
Both RR and TranscendingLight have stated that it helps in reducing colonization time.




Yeah if you used the dry verm layer don’t bother adding more tape. Also I have never heard of light during colonization but I will certainly research it. Good luck buddy, now all you have to do is hurry up and wait.


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