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AZZI
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Weird
#26455089 - 01/27/20 12:35 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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Has anyone else noticed that thoughts are more potent than words?
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Diego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26455092 - 01/27/20 12:38 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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I feel the opposite. Thoughts never feel real until i say them out loud
-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: Diego]
#26455194 - 01/27/20 01:24 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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Ah yeah.. well, def. try it sometime.. next time you have a great desire, don't say anything about it. I think you will be surprised, if not amazed. It's very curious.
But other times it's good to talk about stuff for sure.
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footpath
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Re: Weird [Re: Diego] 1
#26455197 - 01/27/20 01:25 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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I find, sometimes, that the transcription can potentiate the thought. But, more often, the thoughts subsist of more than the words can describe. It's an aspiration of mine to speak and understand a variety of languages - one of the main desires being that I can further elaborate the potential of any thought.
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AZZI
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I'm fluent in a couple. It's worth while for sure.
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AZZI
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Quote:
footpath said: I find, sometimes, that the transcription can potentiate the thought. But, more often, the thoughts subsist of more than the words can describe. It's an aspiration of mine to speak and understand a variety of languages - one of the main desires being that I can further elaborate the potential of any thought.
O yeah same experiment I recommend 
Btw footpath, you like Moondog right?
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footpath
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26455307 - 01/27/20 02:18 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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Unfortunately, my foundation is the U.S. education system. If it weren't for my own fascination and thirst for my language, I'd probably only be half as literate in my native tongue. Anything beyond English is simply just to get by when visiting other places. Maybe a little extra Spanish.
Love Moondog when he's composed. A lot of it is pretty trying for the ears to get through.
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AZZI
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I understand. I read Goethe at 15 coz I was wanting to get more educated. Then Dostoevsky at 17. But, don't get it wrong, we learn good things here.
China, Russia, North Korea, all probably less pleasant places to go to school.
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26455369 - 01/27/20 02:51 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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Nah but I know. Less than 100% of people are perfectly sane, and they hound some things into you..
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Rangiku



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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI] 1
#26455573 - 01/27/20 05:01 PM (4 years, 2 days ago) |
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In my view thoughts are words which haven’t been expressed, but are you meaning emotion or feelings? I had a cry the other night just listening to music and smoking weed with a drink while I was tripping. Seems like mushrooms know how to bring tears which I heard is pretty common. But it is like when the circumstances seem right that the trip just gets real.
It’s like a trip but it is a real trip (not trying to say most trips aren’t real)
Also just wanted to say I was thinking that
--------------------
  ”Beware the forest’s mushrooms.”
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AZZI
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No I guess I meant direct will.
Try this,
In any setting, talk less.
Now tell me if this is not a direct proportion, limitless correlation between not talking and effeciency.
But I do mean that it extends beyond 'observable'.
So if you are desiring something.
Actions are okay, but don't talk about it.
I promise if you try this, you will be amazed.
Want to get married?
Just wish for it, keep quiet, you'll be there.
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nooneman


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Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI] 2
#26456081 - 01/27/20 10:13 PM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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My thoughts are words.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Quote:
nooneman said: My thoughts are words.
Within my head.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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AZZI
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Might have been openmind I was thinking about.
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26456776 - 01/28/20 12:43 PM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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I like to think thoughts are made of words even if you are a visual person. Emotion is more grey area if they are based on words or not.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Emotions are best understood by actually experiencing it. Words just don't quite sum up the experience.
And with psychedelics, theres a deeper understanding and experience of emotions mid-trip that I find other-worldly and Sacred.
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footpath
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I find that my word-thinking is usually in context to something that I may have even the slightest chance of needing convey - an occurrence or data, inclusive of the description of a feeling. I don't simply just say 'I was scared.' I take note of the glistening saliva on the teeth, the moistness of the breath, and the deep, inaudible frequencies of the roar. But my free-thought - that that is mine and mine alone - is often more of an input/response sort of impression on my memory. And I find that most everything that I experience has a duality of both of these planes of thought. The tangible and the disguised. Surface and subsurface information. I suppose you could just call that feeling or emotion, but there often seems to be some sort of adjoined cryptic analysis that's going on in tandem with my word-thinking. So much that I could put my feeling/emotional response into a third category of its own. This isn't to say that my word-thought and/or my emotions don't feel complete in their representation of a given experience - they often do. I suppose I may just need to expand my vocabulary or comprehension. Or maybe I'm just not so great at expressing my feelings. But that seems too cut and dry.
To tie this into an actual psychedelic experience, Sometimes 'bad trips' are simply just arduous bouts of being mauled by your regrets (like... all of them - compounded into a 5 hour experience) ... but how many words are actually being generated as you go through these thoughts? Of course, much of that vernacular absence can be supplemented by emotional input; you can easily say, 'well, it felt...' But it wouldn't make much sense to simply dive through your recollections in a strictly sensory/emotional perspective. There's analysis, there's consideration, there's quantification. And so much of that has an identity that is not complete with words and emotions alone. There's something else hiding in the shadows.
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The Mycologist
Explorer

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The line between thoughts and words blurs on psychs
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: The line between thoughts and words blurs on psychs
 Can't even express my thoughts into words half of the time.
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AZZI
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It's great to see all you guys' replies. I find, wisdom comes in many forms and I agree, there's an essence beyond words... Many things suggest 'opposite view' of perception base to be real.
Like, do we create the world, or etc.
"External nature is just internal nature writ large."
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26458201 - 01/29/20 08:59 AM (4 years, 11 hours ago) |
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Or "when the doors of perception are cleansed, all will appear to man as it is, infinite."
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26458211 - 01/29/20 09:03 AM (4 years, 11 hours ago) |
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I guess this is about the interesting relation between talking less, or being silent, and having more effect, and/or power. To simply work and get the job done, is pretty nice. Place where this would be true; workplace, poker. But, the reason it may work is because most people don't think of it... Also, the reason the other may work is simply, shared beliief and so forth.
I.e., we talk because of shared faith (that talking is good), and it is. Partly because we believe it.
Anyway
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26458224 - 01/29/20 09:10 AM (4 years, 11 hours ago) |
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There's a bit of diminishing returns, however, although there's also benefits that come back. Oh, I was saying part of why it works is perhaps because of its rarity, a counter-current sort of.
However it occurs to me the main thing may simply be the effect itself; I.e., the initial point that speaking takes energy, and so forth.
Now I'll let others flow their wisdom
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footpath
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26458238 - 01/29/20 09:22 AM (4 years, 11 hours ago) |
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I'm particularly quiet verbally. It certainly doesn't always have advantages, especially not those of instant gratification. However, it's often that the jabberwocky receive their instant gratifications and cannot maintain contentedness. While the verbally selective are overshadowed in the moment but have a persistent contentedness. Observation over interaction. If you thrive exclusively on interaction, you'll find that you're always talking about things you hardly know anything about. And if you're exclusively observant, you'll find that you never talk about the things you know.
As always, balance. It's taken me the better part of 30 years to speak up for myself.
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AZZI
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Yes. Ideally we should be able to talk, act and play freely. And this is the shared belief thing.
If one person starts talking, they can make it a safe place for others to.
And there's times when that's most ideal as well.. in jobs that are not production sensitive, i.e., a game store or etc as opposed to a restaurant.. but in the restaurant, most people talk way too much.
And it's not a judgement on them, just as you say, it ends up being talk about nothing.
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redgreenvines
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thoughts to me include any mental forms, so yes words are thoughts, but not all thoughts are words.
let us observe what properties are integral to all thought:
1. a thought unfolds centrally in the mind as a recognized mental form (a fact or an experience) or as a unrecognized form (something new is happening) It is easy to see how a direct linkage works like a clear thread between thoughts, and so there is a category of thought called prompted thought or triggered thought, and for ease of conversation there is also a category called unprompted thought which some assume is spontaneous, although this is actually a case in which the mix of sensation and other mental content produces chimeric results, i.e. in many cases, the overlay of a variety of linkages produces no dominant link but instead multiple linkettes produce a result that is new-ish or combinatorial.
2. a thought elicits the arising of subsequent thoughts by exciting previously formed associative linkages (by energizing closely related memories and centrally hosting the most salient of those related items - thus becoming the next thought) I make no distinction between prompted or unprompted (no single blame or trigger due to multiple relevance) because the next thought that arises is arising by the very same traffic system in which experience (including what you are thinking) washes over your memories setting the stage for the next linked thought activity. Here is where the issue of repetition comes in as a factor to intensify the strength of linkages between thought forms - the more a link is used the stronger it gets - and this has been proven as the essence of conditioning. It is how and why habit exists.
3. after a few seconds the thought as it is fades away unless it is re-started, which can easily happen especially if there are multiple similar mental contents or if the context shifts or fails to sift as expected.
This process can be applied to word based thoughts or image based thoughts, body sense thoughts, feelings, musical thoughts or whatever can take place in the mind linked to what you are experiencing. We call it associative thought and this applies to ideas, phrases, speaking, and action (yes voluntary and reflex actions of the body are expressions of thought that is completed in the body position changing).
Logic is interesting because there really is NO such a thing as a logical processor in the mind, but we do learn logical thinking (by repetition) particularly as shown in mathematical notation or in the artistry of programming computers. similarly one can adopt the logic of selected philosophers by study and incorporation of the style or habit of thinking that is used.
However reasonableness or suitability comes into play during every single instance of linkage to the next thought, as the conditions are sensed and memory responds to the conditions and the passing of the previous thought. The loudest idea (the most matchy idea) prevails and if several are equal in associativity, then they overlap unless the person cannot abide by the formation of a new idea, and they block it.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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LosTresOjos
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Lol the secret? You're engaging in wishful thinking. You have to put physical energy into a system for it to manifest. God should have manifested by now.
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redgreenvines
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the process of mind consumes lots of energy. stops working if you starve.
--------------------
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AZZI
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Excuse me Los Tejas but don't rude. This is in fact extremely be true.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Quote:
redgreenvines said: the process of mind consumes lots of energy. stops working if you starve.
Non sequitor?
Anyway you missed the point.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26460611 - 01/30/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are worse people than her.
But what I'm talking about is not based on that.
And I've beaten GMs at chess, the last time I played poker I made 900 in a few hours.
I dislike the negativity in chess...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26460873 - 01/30/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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so, what is the point? just being weird is easy.
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footpath
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Now it just sounds like you're going off on some Machiavellian shit.
Selective communication to potentiate your ability to manipulate people?
It's pretty adolescent.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Me? Wtf me? Lololol
E tu fuckin brute?
No, sorry dude.
I said it makes you more effective. I said nothing about good or evil. Clarity, positivity, and so forth are positive qualities. Fuckin ell dude. Absolutely nothing I said was negative in nature in any way. After all if you thought that was the case ...
Better lover.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461374 - 01/31/20 01:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Love, Science, Math, Basically anything.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461376 - 01/31/20 01:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just get out with that dude.
I would give my life for any of my friends.
Just leave me alone dude.
This is said to be One thing, make you effective.
Get out with that, ok?
MAKE LOVE, DON'T TALK
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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461380 - 01/31/20 01:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm talking about the phenomenon of how you are more effective at literally almost anything
The more silent, calm, you are.
Please have an infinitely beautiful life, read that sentence again, and try to sense
What I'm saying
And whether any replies like that are appropriate, or necessary.
In short, just reassess what the fuck I'm saying, and what I'm coming from.
Or else please just leave. Because I'm not saying b.s.
It is close to my heart (and important.)
And I deserve a little more than that.
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461388 - 01/31/20 02:04 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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It took me a
L o o o o o o o n g
ass time to understand -- you were even saying anything like that -- because it's so absolutely opposite, to a clear perception of what I am expressing.
I am talking about how being silent, calm
- which are not opposite in any shape to being focused, active
Make you more effective at literally anything you do.
Making love, work,
Cooking
Hiking.
Voting.
Lol.
Jesus Christ.
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susurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI] 2
#26461435 - 01/31/20 03:12 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Make big noise and get excited talking about
being quiet and calm.
I feel you, friend.
The ideas I've been most intent on sharing with people in life have turned out to be me talking to myself about myself to another person.
Let's have some tea on it.
-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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Shr00mEater
Strange

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
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Quote:
susurrador said: Make big noise and get excited talking about
being quiet and calm.
I feel you, friend.
The ideas I've been most intent on sharing with people in life have turned out to be me talking to myself about myself to another person.
Let's have some tea on it.
Agree. Good stuff.
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Shr00mEater
Strange

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
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AZZI I have been following this post trying to understand exactly what you are saying. I feel like I am close, but then every other post I lose it. I don’t think you are being as clear in these posts as you believe you are.
I am of the opinion that silence has its place and words have their place. Neither is more or less appropriate or effective than the other, just different styles of communication. Words are more effective than silence for communicating complex ideas. Silence, combined with physical actions can be more effective for training someone to do a new task at work.
susurrador is pointing out something interesting, in a way more chill way than I could have. Please consider what he is saying if you haven't yet.
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AZZI
Stranger

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Quote:
susurrador said: Make big noise and get excited talking about
being quiet and calm.
I feel you, friend.
Thanks! Love.
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
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Quote:
susurrador said: Make big noise and get excited talking about
being quiet and calm.
I feel you, friend.
The ideas I've been most intent on sharing with people in life have turned out to be me talking to myself about myself to another person.
Let's have some tea on it.
Thanks man.
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footpath
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461599 - 01/31/20 06:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Of course being receptive is beneficial. It's quite obvious that, if you're not keeping quiet (in mind and tongue), you're distracting your ability to thoroughly cognize the available information. In effect, you're agitating the water - obscuring your view to the bottom of the lake.
But when you say that this open-channel methodology grants you more power, you're saying that it becomes easier to manipulate the situations you involve yourself in. There's no inherent moral alignment to manipulation. I manipulate clay to create pottery. The problem with the fanatic enthusiasm about the approach (and where I draw parallels to Machiavelli) is that the lines get easily skewed into the manipulation of people. You mention chess and poker - both games where you can statistically analyze the situation in front of you based on the available information. But anyone who has played these games knows that, for the most part, you're playing your ability to read and deceive your opponents. So, to me, it's an odd example to use in the case of being receptive to inputs presented to you and sounds more like a method of manifesting personal gains by means of selective and concentrated thought.
I'm not coming from a place of malice. It's just an easy parallel to draw based on the available information.
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AZZI
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Re: Weird *DELETED* [Re: footpath]
#26461620 - 01/31/20 06:47 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by AZZI
Reason for deletion: .
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461623 - 01/31/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thins are hard enough without the bullshit.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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makes me think of glass half full or half empty, same math in each case, but different angle, and lots of excitement in the fact that you could even have a different angle - and that is kinda power.
but words are a subset of thought, the power is in your perspective.
--------------------
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AZZI
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: makes me think of glass half full or half empty, same math in each case, but different angle, and lots of excitement in the fact that you could even have a different angle - and that is kinda power.
but words are a subset of thought, the power is in your perspective.
Swing and a miss. But nice try to talk down to me.
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Shr00mEater
Strange

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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461691 - 01/31/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Aw, don’t be like that. Surely, if we are going to start getting hostile and defensive, this would be the perfect moment to find out if calm silence would actually make this thread more productive.
Because I do value language, I can see footpath isn’t meaning any harm, and might be showing potential issues that would be beneficial to work through. Maybe point out the specific spot you feel he is misunderstanding you? It would help me a lot too. Like I said, I feel like I know what you mean...... but then you post a bunch of words and then I lose it again. I find that extremely interesting, hence why I am following your thread. 😉
Peace
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461911 - 01/31/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
AZZI said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: makes me think of glass half full or half empty, same math in each case, but different angle, and lots of excitement in the fact that you could even have a different angle - and that is kinda power.
but words are a subset of thought, the power is in your perspective.
Swing and a miss. But nice try to talk down to me.
I am not talking down to you, we are in different places, but neither is higher or lower. we are different, and that really has to be OK with you, cause it is with me.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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AZZI
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Thanks man. I appreciate that a lot. I apologize if I seem hesitant. I had been burned and seen the worst, I mean literally scarrring life behavior in online forums.
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461928 - 01/31/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Glad you seem to think that, Green.
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AZZI
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461935 - 01/31/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So it's pretty messed up when I say from the beginning, I do not like negativity in those things -- indeed, I hate it very much. Being a high class played myself, you can imagine I've met every kind of person...
In fact in the inter-disciplinary game of poker, 99% of the game is creating a friendly atmosphere, where people are having fun, enjoying themselves, and of course this has to be genuine.
These are people you see day after day, or week after week. Friends.
Whether the stakes are 3-6, or 1k-2k, human nature is exactly the same.
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461979 - 01/31/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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When teaching chess, I do talk a fair amount. But in life, I don't talk so much.
But also, I don't distract when people are thinking.
. . .
Thoughts are closer to the source, of both thoughts, words and speech. Let's say you have a wife or significant other.
To be an effective lover, and partner, you have to understand what she is thinking and feeling, not just what she is saying.
If you can understand her feelings, then you can relate and so forth.
. .
Let's say you have kids. Talking can help explain the world abd of course it's good.
But the ability to be quiet, to sit still and so forth is quintessential.
. . .
It can basically overcome all things.
Of course activity is good. But even then, I guarantee you in many cases, 95% Or more, of the energy of the majority of people doesn't go into their goal, it goes into random thoughts and so forth.
. . Which of course is good also in some or many cases.
. . But let's say you are a hunter. Then, quiet is the main thing.
Then, you're back at home -- again, quiet alertness is very good....
Anyway, I rambled.
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26461998 - 01/31/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you want to understand me you should understand how much I hate that our society is based on competition.
It's a good thing. Except when life's necessities are involved. Then it becomes a horror show.
Then it makes a mockery of -- nature's bounty, and goodness in the world.
So, if I can help people I always do.
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26462000 - 01/31/20 11:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Btw when I write I am peaceful.

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susurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US
Last seen: 10 months, 5 hours
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI]
#26462089 - 01/31/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Where you from Azzi?
-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Same as you.
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susurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US
Last seen: 10 months, 5 hours
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Re: Weird [Re: AZZI] 1
#26462104 - 01/31/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Howdy neighbor!
-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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