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OfflineDarkenedavatar
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Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting.
    #26454345 - 01/27/20 12:02 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Hey all, so I finally took the plunge after obsessively researching for 10 years. I finally got my 11 jars in my closet, using rye berry grain. I let them saok for 24 hours, boiled them for 15 mins, dried them,  then threw them in pressure cooker for 90 minutes. I have been following Arvin forty seven on YouTube for this one. I made my own lids using polyfill filters and gasket sealer, made GE holes and a self healing injection port.

And now its been 3 days as of tomorrow since they have been colonizing in the jars. Of course I am going through the typical noob antsy paranoia. "What if I didn't sterilize them enough, what if they get too dry in my jars?" My main concern is that I was afraid it was getting too cold in my closet. Heat sucks, so my closet gets to 65 degrees at its warmest. So I threw a space heater in.

I had to play with it, as once I came home from lunch and it got to 95 degrees in the closet, turned it way down, now its staying at a constant 75 to 83 degrees. However I got the thought, wait, dry air can dry the moisture in the jars out, so I quickly cut that out. There is still moisture on the side of all my jars, so, it seems to be good.

My biggest fear is that I am touching them too much, I keep monitoring my conditions, however not touching the top of the lid or filters or anything just side to rotate them to check for any sight of growth or contam. I've decided that I should stop doing that just in case.

Now, here's where the big mistake happened. When I first innoxulated the first set of jars; (pressure cooker holds 7 quarts) I sterilized the needle with flame and wiped it off, alchoal wiped the jars and self healing injection port. Well, what I didn't do was sterilize the needle between jars. I did sterilize each inoculation port before injecting however, just not the needle...so suffice to say, I'm sure there will be some contams which I am beating myself up for being so darned clumsy. But, I fixed that mistake on last 4 jars though.

So questions are, 1:is it right for me to say screw the space heater in fear of my grains drying out? Like I said, I still have moisture in them, so I'm good for now.

And 2: What is the likelihood that I contaminated 7 jars due to me not sterilizing needle between jars even though I sterilized the injection port? I also did not use a layer of vermiculite, as I feel I didn't need with my self made lids.

Also, I used one 10 cc syringe, however to finish my jars I had to break into another one, I still have 7 CC's in one, put the cap back on the needle, and stuffed it back into a zip lock bag with the last unused needle and put it on the top shelf of my closet. Wil l this be an okay way to store them for the time being? Previous to all this I cleaned the hell out of the whole tiny closet with bleach and water, so it is a clean area.

Thank you guys for all and any info or reassurance. Like I said, this is a 10 year obsession finally coming along, so if I fail this attempt I am of course going to get and try until I get it. But it would feel amazing to get it on my first time. :wink:


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InvisibleSir Pentinite
Stranger all the time.

Registered: 05/15/19
Posts: 525
Loc: ation Location Location
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Darkenedavatar]
    #26454358 - 01/27/20 12:27 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

The injection ports were sterile when they came out of the PC. They became nonsterile when you uncovered them after that. They became even more nonsterile when you wiped them down. Same with wiping the needle after flaming it. It's better to flame it and then not touch with anything.  Alcohol is only a santizer, not a sterilizer. It kills bacteria fairly well yet is not effective against mold or bacterial spores.

Most of us advise against putting spores directly on grain as well.


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"I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'"
- Terrence McKenna


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OfflineDarkenedavatar
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Sir Pentinite]
    #26454363 - 01/27/20 12:38 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

I gotcha, and ouch, truth hurts. The last 4 jars I sterilized needles with flame between each jar. However I ended up alchoal wiping the needle right after. And as for spraying the spore directly on grain, I didn't add, I did spray it on glass and let it run down. I remember to keep that in mind.

Buuut, I guess I'll just ride this one out, and learn for next time. How about the syringes that I haven't used? One with 6 CC's left with cap on, and other thqwt hasn't been used yet. Are they okay to store in zip lock bag in the same room?


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OfflineHolyBolete
Mold Slayer
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/15/19
Posts: 263
Loc: USA 🇺🇸
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Darkenedavatar]
    #26454387 - 01/27/20 01:33 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Patience and letting go is a key element.

Ime, inoculating without flame sterilizing inside of a SAB has been quite successful with no contams. That being said it's not the correct way and you are accepting the risks and results of not following protocol.

Worrying is just a way to experience failure before it happens and rarely serves any purpose..

The shroom gods don't owe any of us a successful grow. Just do the best you can with the info and accept whatever happens. Learn from it, get better, and repeat.

Grain will still colonize if you set it up with moisture that is really just contained within the shell even if the outside look dry AF.

Space heater is a fire hazard, would ditch that.

After inoculation you are going to almost always inject negative contams using an MS syringe.. but the reality is that you are betting on that the myc will colonize fast enough that it will out-compete anything else.

:goodluck:


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
Detritivore
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Registered: 11/02/11
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Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26454396 - 01/27/20 02:07 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

injection with what? spores i assume?  ill be brutal honest with you so dont get mad im jusy trying to help.

im not acquainted with this youtube grower but their techniques seem a little dated and or sloppy.
are you using a still air box?  this is all being done in open air?  no flame sanitization? 

so theres good number of contamination vectors here:

1. spores are inherently dirty.  we dont use spores to inoculate jars, we inoculate agar and then clean and isolate. it can be done but it will take a very long time. 
2.  because of the length of germ time, and low temp, eventually the rye will contaminate on its own despite your technique even if you were flawless—which you werent.  you cant sterilize grain technically.  its a race against time now between bacterial endospores presnet in the grain and your cube spores— tick tock
3. wiping the needle does very little, particularly for the inside of the needle.  we flame sterilize. 
4. no still air box is inviting a world of trouble when its damn easy to make one. 

also, i dont like how you said “moisture on the sides of the jar” already sounds too moist and is like to see that.  thats, in conjunction with the rest of your vectors makes me hold out little hope for the jars.
not being a jerk, but wet jars are a kiss of death.  you almost cant be too dry.  dont worry about the heat drying them out but  put it on a thermostat so you can dial the temp in  and dont burn your house down. 

store the syringes in the fridge. 

okay listen man.  you want my advice?  i think most the pros aroud here are going to tell you something similar to what im about to say:

start over. do it right. the most current techniques tend to use agar in petri dishes.  it you’re serious about this hobby you need to learn current tequniques and follow instructions carefully.  I organized my journal to guide noobs into some of the most popular and successful teks and it will get you aquatinted with some of the trusted cultivators here.  the link is in my journal. 

read all of it and i will be happy to try and answer any questions you might have.  if you wish to skip the reading and insist on using these poor techniques— youre on your own.


Edited by BeefSupremeJr (01/27/20 02:10 AM)


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OfflineDarkenedavatar
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #26454411 - 01/27/20 02:31 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

I would never get mad at someone taking time to give their piece of advice and I thank you for for it all, as well as others.

Yes, I got the spores from one of the sponsors here, they gave me 3 for the price of two, which I was deffinetly not prepared for, but happy nonetheless. I did not use a sterile air box, sadly, even though I should have, all in open air. Which is sad, because I know I'm able to build one.

As for moisture on the sides of jars, I gotcha. I am actually wondering if I boiled them for too long, but I wanted to make sure, as I read about endospores and wanted to make sure them bastards were good and dead in the pressure cooker. There is not a ton of moisture on the sides of jars, just small droplets around. And no pooled water in the bottom or anywhere else, but nonetheless there is moisture. And thank you for letting me know about the syringe storage, I plan on using these next tow days off, and just making more spawn jars to use them up.

For the AGAR tek, I have been studying up on that quite a bit, I just wanted to see if I couldn't grow some first then get into it. And as for the journal guide link, I'll deffinetly read it. I don't plan on giving up anytime soon as I really want to do this.

One bit of good news is, as of writing this, I am starting to see some white rye grain, that from everything I have seen, seems to be mycellium growth nothing spooky looking yet, but as I have said its only been 3 days as of 30 mins ago, so time will tell!

I thank you for everything you have provided. I don't talk to people about my interests and activities wit this hobby, as I don't think anyone in my current life would understand, so its just nice to talk to others with the same interests even if they are faceless. Here's to hoping!


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OfflineMr.Wizard
Harbinger of Hallucination
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Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Darkenedavatar]
    #26454425 - 01/27/20 02:53 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Here's some great reading:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=24297804&page=0&vc=1#24297804

Should get you confident with agar. It did me and I've just done my first 8 transfers the last 2 days :laugh:


--------------------
Tricks to the search bar: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24270830

Where to Start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24420178/fpart/52#27623666

My easy to see modified no-pour: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26467702

I am so happy and grateful that we get to live in joyful abundance, while things get better, and better.


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OfflineTIS87
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Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 123
Last seen: 10 months, 1 day
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Mr.Wizard]
    #26454581 - 01/27/20 06:26 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Regarding the excess heat I wouldn't worry about it if you just inoculated them. Agar is really worth it.


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OfflineSmoothcat
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Registered: 10/07/15
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Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: TIS87]
    #26454600 - 01/27/20 06:36 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Defo do agar, defo don’t chuck em yet, defo don’t give up and defo post some pics when your growth has grown :crazy2:

You’ve taken the plunge and decided to grow. The only way is up :thumbup:


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OfflineTattersail
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Registered: 04/11/18
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Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Smoothcat]
    #26454617 - 01/27/20 06:50 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Touching them too much can get to be a problem, but I think we've all been there! Best thing to do about that is start more projects, so the mush-pestering is more spread out among more jars lol.


--------------------
LAGM2021
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We may lose or we may win, but we'll never be here again


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Registered: 10/08/19
Posts: 1,331
Re: Just a paranoid first time grower looking for some morale boosting. [Re: Tattersail]
    #26454720 - 01/27/20 08:05 AM (4 years, 2 days ago)

Agar is definitely the way to go but lot of people have had and still do have success with taking MS directly to grains... Odds of contamination are up but it's way to early to say your jars don't have a chance so I definitely wouldn't throw them away. I've done open air inculcation with BRF jars that had an injection port with above 90% success :shrug:

just let em ride for a couple weeks and post some pics of your growth. I'm betting you will get some viable jars if your prepared your jars right. Either way good luck man and welcome to the hobby.


Edited by SpunkyMonkey88 (01/27/20 08:07 AM)


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