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OfflineVibeUp
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Understanding the big picture
    #26451440 - 01/25/20 08:38 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

I started growing in 2012 and have dabbled about every other year since. Currently I grow in mini monotubs using the MS spores > rye grain > coir tek. I'd like to take the leap to agar/cloning/etc so I purchased a sleeve of plastic petri dishes and built a SAB. I've read several individual teks for agar and cloning and I feel comfortable following through with them.

The problem is that I don't understand the lifecycle of how this process will differ from my current methods. As an example, I'm done making spawn for the year and still have many jars and tubs that will be fruited over the next couple months. What's the best way to collect the materials I'll need for next fall when I start growing again? Do I simply clone the best genetics to agar and just put the dishes aside for a year and use them to knock up fresh grain jars? How many times can you clone? At what point do I stop cloning and make spore prints and start over?

The individual teks are very detailed for their part of the process, but I still can't see the big picture of how these procedures fit into the growing lifecycle. My objectives are to have better genetics and to not have to keep buying spores.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26451487 - 01/25/20 09:17 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

once you get a clean clone culture you can store it in the fridge in a slant or on a plate until  spring when you ready to use it.  I would test em 1st to see if theyre even worth the fridge space but since your done making spawn:shrug:

if your not going to test them just yet take as many clones as you feel comfortable with.  the more you take the better chances that youll get something you like .  you may want to take a few prints also incase all your clones suck ass you'll have fresh genetics to go back to and try again. 

when you take you dish out of the fridge transfer a small piece to a new dish(work plate) and put the original (master) back in the fridge until you need to start another work plate.  1 dish can inoculate a lot of jars and each jar can inoculate bags or  more jars.  sometime before harvest youll want to take that master plate back out and start a new worker so you can noc more jars for your next round


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weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: TedsDead]
    #26451613 - 01/25/20 10:28 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Not to be a pessimist but plan for failure. You're counting your mushrooms before they're grown. To get the most enjoyment out of this hobby you should really have multiple projects lined up. Worst case scenario you'll have to give away extra mushrooms.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26451633 - 01/25/20 10:47 AM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Grimsweeper said:
Not to be a pessimist but plan for failure. You're counting your mushrooms before they're grown. To get the most enjoyment out of this hobby you should really have multiple projects lined up. Worst case scenario you'll have to give away extra mushrooms.




I'm been running 14 quart jars and 6 monotubs in continuous rotation for 3 months. This exact same setup has been successful for the last few years so your worst case scenario is almost inevitable (again!). At this point, I'm comfortable producing dry pounds so I'd like to expand into learning more advanced processes.


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"When you get the message, hang up the phone."—Alan Watts


Edited by VibeUp (01/25/20 10:51 AM)


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: TedsDead]
    #26451806 - 01/25/20 12:42 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
once you get a clean clone culture you can store it in the fridge in a slant or on a plate until  spring when you ready to use it.  I would test em 1st to see if theyre even worth the fridge space but since your done making spawn:shrug:



By "test" them do you mean cut a piece out and put it in a grain jar to see if it grows mycelium? I can always make more jars. My objective here is to start doing whatever I need to do so I don't have to buy spores every year.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26451904 - 01/25/20 01:38 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

no, by test I meant grow it out to see how it performs.  if you take a clone or sporeprint youll never have to buy spores again.  take a bunch of prints and trade in the marketplace


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26451911 - 01/25/20 01:41 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

If not buying spores is your objective, then start making prints and doing trades/giveaways
in the marketplace. I sent out over 200 prints to people last year and lots of people send
me prints. I haven't paid for spores in years and I am constantly getting new and interesting
things in the mail. It's good karma to spread your spores as far and wide as possible. Good
things will happen as a result. I make more mushrooms than I could ever use, so sending out
prints is the only way I can justify throwing all the extra in the compost.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: TedsDead]
    #26451999 - 01/25/20 02:20 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
if you take a clone or sporeprint youll never have to buy spores again.  take a bunch of prints and trade in the marketplace




That's my goal but despite reading the individual teks, I have no clue how the process differs from my current operation. That's what I'm trying to ask here but apparently I'm not asking the right question. I just want to know how the overall process differs from my current setup using spore syringes. Is there any reading material or posts that describe an overview of the entire lifecycle? I still have no idea how to get started.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Asura]
    #26452005 - 01/25/20 02:24 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
If not buying spores is your objective, then start making prints and doing trades/giveaways
in the marketplace.




While I know how to make a spore print, I have no what I would do with one after making it or if someone sent one to me. That's the questions I'm trying to get answered. I've always started with pre-filled syringes from Shroomery sponsors.


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"When you get the message, hang up the phone."—Alan Watts


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26452015 - 01/25/20 02:33 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

You streak the spores to plates like this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26325679


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Asura]
    #26452040 - 01/25/20 02:50 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

The reason for agar is first to make sure myc is clean, no contaminants, prints can be dirty; and secondly to select genetics for growth,potency, etc

With ms syringe straight to grain, you might get thousands of active genetic profiles in your grows.

By going to agar first, you limit that number a bit causing for more uniform grows.

If that’s what you are wondering.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Asura]
    #26452041 - 01/25/20 02:50 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

So let's say I have a plate made. Do I then dump the entire Petri dish contents into a grain jar when I'm ready to start growing again?

I understand the individual steps but I still don't understand the overall big picture here.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26452043 - 01/25/20 02:52 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Shr00mEater said:
The reason for agar is first to make sure myc is clean, no contaminants, prints can be dirty; and secondly to select genetics for growth,potency, etc

With ms syringe straight to grain, you might get thousands of active genetic profiles in your grows.

By going to agar first, you limit that number a bit causing for more uniform grows.

If that’s what you are wondering.




I understand the underlying reason for using agar over MS syringes. What I do not understand is how the overall process differs from my current setup.


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OfflineNeowynd8
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26452048 - 01/25/20 02:54 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

You can. Cut it into multiple pieces for more inoc points or you can dissolve it into sterile water for liquid inoc. Or separate pieces to separate jars.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Neowynd8]
    #26452092 - 01/25/20 03:18 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Okay, so to summarize, these are the steps I should follow:

1. make spore print
2. apply spores to agar plate
3. test agar (still have no idea what this means)
4. store in refrigerator until ready to use
5. cut up agar and drop pieces in grain jars
6. make spore print from harvest and restart

Does that sound right?


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26452098 - 01/25/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

3 - this is just transferring to new plates until you get growth you like and
you are certain there is no contamination present.
4 - don't store anything in the fridge. If you have a plate you want to keep around
for awhile that you aren't going to use, you can put it in the fridge.

Everything else seems basically right.


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OfflineVibeUp
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Asura]
    #26452120 - 01/25/20 03:41 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you! It's slowly starting to make sense now.

How many times can you transfer to new plates? I feel like read somewhere that the mycelium gets old after a few generations and you need to restart with spores. Or does that just apply to directly cloning tissue?

How do you know that there is no contamination present? I get that you can see the bacteria and it looks different from mushroom mycelium, but isn't there the risk of contamination every time you do a transfer? What would be the point of transferring multiple times assuming no contams?

I would be needing to store until November because I live in an area where it's too hot to grow during the summer so my grow season is November-March. Is that too long to keep in the fridge?


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: VibeUp]
    #26452149 - 01/25/20 03:57 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

That's not too long for the fridge.

You transfer until you like what you have. It's just something you will
have to do for yourself and learn. There are no hard rules around it. I
like to use T1 or T2 plates if I can. I have done up to 12 transfers
before...but only because I had a really dirty print.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: Asura]
    #26452206 - 01/25/20 04:39 PM (4 years, 23 days ago)

I would take a clone, and let it grow out on a plate. While it’s growing cut off a tiny piece of mycelium and put it on another plate and let that grow. At this point you could put the original plate away for a while.

Once the second one is growing If it looks clean grow it out then dump 99% of the plate into grains and transfer the 1% left over to another plate.

Spawn the grains to make sure it’s a good culture and not going to take forever and then end up putting out three mushrooms.

If you like it then you can keep growing plates out, transferring a tiny piece and dumping the rest in a jar.

If something happens and you lose the plate, you can go get the very first one and take a tiny piece off it and start up again.

Anyway something like that.


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LAGM2020


Edited by A.k.a (01/25/20 04:40 PM)


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Understanding the big picture [Re: A.k.a]
    #26452327 - 01/25/20 05:54 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

It would be helpful for you to check out the Let's all grow mushrooms thread. Everyone participating is starting from spores simultaneously to agar and so on. That way you'll see what people are looking for when doing transfers, etc.


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