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Offlinebaraka
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The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry
    #2645143 - 05/06/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

TAXES.

Unless your unemployed. You will be losing money. Anyone with a job is considered rich to kerry. Lets think back to bill clinton. He had a claim similar, and instead once in office raised the taxes on not so rich people receive Social Security benefits or happen to drive a car, or use electricity for that matter remember the infamous Btu tax?.

This is where i need king of thing to bring up kerry's voting record in the senate. Find me more times that he voted to lower the taxes of middle class, cant cuz most of them where to raise.

KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL wanting to spend in the sentae.

"In fact, let's be very specific. Mr. Kerry had a chance to cut taxes for people who make less than $200,000 just last year. By choosing not to do so, Mr. Kerry voted to deny meaningful tax relief for the voters he is pursuing.
Using Treasury Department data from the Internal Revenue Service, I recently found the average middle-class family would pay $1,933 more in federal income taxes this year if Mr. Kerry had carried the day and the Bush tax cut had been voted down. There would be no child credit; no reduction in the income tax rates; and no elimination of the marriage penalty tax." -stephon moore.

Im to stioned right now to finish and my friends just got here.

Bush has been pretty shady with dealings in iraq, but i think kerry would fuck everyone $$$ wise and id rather have bush.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2645462 - 05/06/04 02:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

> KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL wanting to spend in the sentae.

Didn't I just read about Bush asking for 50 some odd billion more to go towards war? Liberal or conservative, the jerks up there are going to spend our tax money... I would much rather them spend it on something that might benefit me or the rest of the world rather than spend it to kill some innocent people in order to line Bushes pocket book with more oil money.


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Anonymous

Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2645528 - 05/06/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

bush is a big spender too (probably bigger). whether the cash is coming from taxes or 'borrowing', we're all getting screwed just the same.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2645583 - 05/06/04 02:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm still young, and will be paying taxes for many years.

Bush is spending plenty, just not paying for it with taxes NOW. I'm not planning on dying soon, and will have to pay for the war in Iraq later with higher taxes.

Most government money goes to Social Security, Medicare, and defense. This is where cuts have to be made to reduce the government, and this is where Bush has increased spending.

In fact, Clinton was a MUCH more conservative spender than Bush.

If you look at the White House's budget charts, you'll find that discretionary spending (which does not include social security or medicare) has increased very much during the Bush administration while remaining fairly constant (in inflation-adjusted terms) through the Clinton years.

It is in a spreadsheet, so here are a couple sample pieces of data for your viewing pleasure. Keep in mind that these are inflation adjusted dollars (compared to 1962? not 100% sure) so are likely to be much lower than the figures for real dollars, and not show as much increase. However, they are from the White House, not any liberally-biased news media source. However, there's much more data in the sheet, and I AM biased in my choices of data to present.

This covers discretionary spending only, about 1/3 of the total.
In billions of inflation-adjusted dollars:

1992:
Defense: 359.3
National resources and environement: 25.0
Education, training, employment, social services: 41.4
Total discretionary spending: 643.2

2000:
Defense: 295.0
National resources and environment: 25.0
Education, training, employment, social services: 48.9
Total discretionary spending: 614.8

2004 (estimate):
Defense: 412.4
National resources and environment: 27.6
Education, training, employment, social services: 70.4
Total discretionary spending: 830.0


And this does NOT include the $540 billion dollars recently added to Medicare, or a recent $820 billion pork-only bill.


Conservatives agree, Bush is a free spender:

From the Heritage foundation:
"Federal spending has grown twice as fast under President Bush than under President Clinton."
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev012004a_notes.cfm

From the Wall Street Journal:
"The Bush Administration seems to think that voters care more about tax cuts than they do spending. This is true enough when times are good. But spending represents a claim on taxes, and Republicans will end up having to raise them down the road if they don't slow the growth of spending now."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004621



The point:
Bush's tax cuts don't help me, but I will have to pay for his massive spending spree later.



Support low taxes long term, vote John Kerry.


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2645590 - 05/06/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

One more reason why No one should vote for Bush: massive deficits. arent debts just taxes on the future?


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2646224 - 05/06/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We're faced with a president who gave us the Patriot Act, a losing battle for peace in Iraq, the worst environmental record in our nation's history, and you're going to support him based on TAXES???!! FUCK THAT! Besides, his supposed tax cuts are really tax deferments, since they are being made during a recession, and only adding to our massive deficit. I'd rather pay a little extra taxes now than have to pay those taxes plus interest in the future.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2646457 - 05/06/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

why would we vote for either? or anyone for that matter.
no president has ever, or will ever solve anything


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: BleaK]
    #2646479 - 05/06/04 06:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
why would we vote for either? or anyone for that matter.
no president has ever, or will ever solve anything



Tell that to the people in the concentration camps we liberated in WWII.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2646488 - 05/06/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
why would we vote for either? or anyone for that matter.
no president has ever, or will ever solve anything



Tell that to the people in the concentration camps we liberated in WWII.




how do u think the camps came into play in the first place?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: BleaK]
    #2646495 - 05/06/04 06:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
why would we vote for either? or anyone for that matter.
no president has ever, or will ever solve anything



Tell that to the people in the concentration camps we liberated in WWII.




how do u think the camps came into play in the first place?



They were put there by a guy named Adolph Hitler. Why do you ask?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2646531 - 05/06/04 06:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

curiosity. im reading up right now.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: BleaK]
    #2646550 - 05/06/04 06:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: BleaK]
    #2646562 - 05/06/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
we helped WHO now?>
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1006-08.htm



Prescott Bush was never a president of the United States. I've checked.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2646577 - 05/06/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
we helped WHO now?>
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1006-08.htm



Prescott Bush was never a president of the United States. I've checked.




thats ok. it was only to show that war is a game to manipulate the masses

EDIT. also, to show that govts finance problems, so they have things to "fix". makes them look good.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


Edited by BleaK (05/06/04 06:35 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #2646584 - 05/06/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I've checked.



Being a college student in a system filled with left leaning proselytizers, I'm sure you had to check.

:wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2647053 - 05/06/04 08:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

wow!

so you KNOW kerry's going to raise taxes?

shucks, with your power of omniscience, can
you do us all a favor and just tell us now who's
going to win the election?

I'll defer to phi1618...


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2648514 - 05/07/04 12:59 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'd prefer Kerry raising taxes.. than the continuation of Bush in Co.

Ashcroft is fighting wars of obscenity and file trading
Rumsfield-- do i need to give reasons?
Karl Rove- same
Cheney-- the de facto president himself (lets not forget Enron and Halliburton)
Bush-- the figure head.. that gives to the rich steals from the poor, does what he can to block gay marriages and illegalize abortion one step at a time, goes after Iraq for numerous reasons that i don't think hold up worth a shit, is increasing the deficit like crazy, has the worst environmental racord, goes to Martin Luther King's grave for a photoshoot on a Friday, then installs a Pro-segregationalist Judge on that same weekend, implements a "leave no child behind program" that does anything but, can barely speak the english language and has lied his fucken ass off (not that any politician doesn't..), mr AWOL himself..

yeah.. Kerry could be a mental invalid, and he'd still get my vote.


Edited by DigitalDuality (05/07/04 12:59 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2648797 - 05/07/04 02:10 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree Baraka


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Offlinetaco
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2649247 - 05/07/04 08:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There are, as always, multiple ways to look at this. If we were in a real wartime situation, with, say, China (Dubya's waiting 'til next term on that one), I would without a doubt in my mind, want George W. Bush as my next President. However, there aren't any real threats abroad save those we created ourselves... but for the sake of argument I'll post both ways that I look at it:

Pro-Bush: Well, he may lie to us, he may cheat us out of our money, and he may not do what we want him to do, but like it or not, this is the most capable, empowered, and ruthless administration our nation has ever seen. Even discounting Dubya's rich lineage back through his former-Pres., former-CIA director dad, his governing uncle, and his war-profiteering grandfather Prescott, we have other major players in this game as well -- Dick Cheney, in my opinion the most influential and dangerous man alive in the world today due to his puppeteer's control of Halliburton and other interests in the US and abroad, John Ashcroft, one of the most talented speakers I've ever seen, with a message that a lot of conservative America would love to hear... Donald Rumsfeld, career politician and tactician, and Colin Powell, the man who can make the proles swallow anything. It's like the Dream Team, only they're running the country, not playing basketball.

Pro-Kerry: I'm 21. I'm going to be paying for this war and Bush's tax cuts for a -very- long time. I don't know how well everyone was paying attention during that whole tax cut thing, but the only reason that package was anywhere near where Congress wanted it to be was due to the sunset clauses the Dems clamored for, and now that the sunset clauses times are up, we're going to vote them into permanence and double the cost of the tax cut package. So, I'd rather take a tax hike now and pay a little more and ultimately like, I don't know, get Social Security by the time I'm 80.

Okay, I hate John Kerry more than I hate Dubya, if only because Dubya's administration has real power. I'm probably voting Nader this year, unless I find another candidate, or we start seeing some real party reform.

I'm really getting sick of picking which guy is going to bend me over and rape me in the ass; I don't even get to pick HOW I'm raped anymore. At least, my parents told me once there was actually a difference between Democrats and Republicans... the lines seem to be blurring a little bit, nowadays. Oh well, time to move to Canada.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: The Main Reason No one should vote for kerry [Re: baraka]
    #2649761 - 05/07/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Bush is going to ring kerry's neck. I mean if a completly unbiased person looked at both sides presented arguments one would clearly relize the bad taste over loosing the last time in the democratic arguments.

I dont think bush is all the great, but kerry, im sorry... he is a huge whiny liberal dusche and i cant believe thats the type of person people would want for prez.


--------------------
This is the only time I really feel alive.


Edited by baraka (05/07/04 01:40 PM)


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