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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: CountHTML]
#26758937 - 06/20/20 01:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yup. Pretty sad. Luckily at least some people can learn from others without having to go through it themselves.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,036
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: CountHTML] 4
#26759055 - 06/20/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm near Miami and there's this attitude here of "PANDEMICS OVER! BEER TIME!" It's frustrating. Lots of folks are like "It's just a flu, big fuckin' deal "
I get that people are going to go out and have no regard for the safety of the public as a whole. I just wish the anti-mask/anti-quarantine people wouldn't be such dickbags about it. They try to make mask wearing out as a weakness....like caring about NOT infecting others is the worst thing possible and makes you a weak person.
I'll respect your opinion as long as your opinion doesn't disrespect the existence of others.
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<-- Clicky Clicky
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Psion
Sage
Registered: 09/11/18
Posts: 1,288
Last seen: 3 days, 12 hours
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
#26759065 - 06/20/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Eh, they say that reality has a liberal bias. guess nature is going to prove it in the harshest of ways with a culling of the herd. too bad it's going to take out some good people along with it, but it's probably going to take out quite a few more of the bad ones than the good, simply because, ironically, there's quite a bit of radicalization going on between the two groups, and not much intermingling.
especially since a lot of the smarter people are staying at home a lot and trying to isolate as much as possible.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] 2
#26759271 - 06/20/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomerInTheRye said: I'll respect your opinion as long as your opinion doesn't disrespect the existence of others.
Love this SITR. So much win.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: HamHead]
#26759356 - 06/20/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Asante said: Not even 5% of the population is exposed,
No single country has remotely come close to testing 100% of the populace how can that 5% be accurate??
Thank you.
We going to test every single person, every single day for this nonsense?
Until that shit happens, numbers will not be accurate.
Even with numbers we have, death rates are low.
Why am I even trying. Seems like I'm yelling into an echo chamber with many of you.
This is a chance for people to LARP their favorite pandemic or zombie show. If you seek a better understanding that shatters their view they will angrily fight back. This is the first opportunity in many people's lives to tout sloth, laziness, procrastination as virtues instead of vices.
I appreciate you starting this thread and your perseverance.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: InfiniteDreams] 2
#26759371 - 06/20/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I’ve never seen people take larping as far as dying on a ventilator. Must be a dedicated bunch. Also, edited for flaming.
Edited by mushboy (06/20/20 08:43 AM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26759402 - 06/20/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Msg for all:
If you cant engage in sensitive dialog without resorting to dick sucking insults please go somewhere else.
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pirate-blues



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: InfiniteDreams]
#26759410 - 06/20/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol ouch
Quote:
mushboy said: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/health/teen-death-coronavirus-wellness-partner/index.html
Is this a joke? The article says his mom says perfectly healthy and he took precautions.
He looks morbidly obese and was 25wk premature
That's not healthy.
The premie comment is a bit much. Kid is already dead and doesn't need to be kicked down any further. But I saw this and kind of thought the same thing regarding his weight. It's super sad, and I really feel for that kid and his family, but this country has a really warped idea of 'healthy' - especially for kids. Makes it all the more tragic imo. We have massive public health issues as it is, thankgod that this isn't a 10% cfr, or higher.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: pirate-blues]
#26759436 - 06/20/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The only healthy person in that entire family photo is the baby and even that ones a gamble. Unexpected? Some of them would be fighting for their life after a mile run
Even CNN had to put healthy in quotes.
Meanwhile. 90 year olds survive with palliative care in their nursing homes.
--------------------
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pirate-blues



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: InfiniteDreams] 2
#26759448 - 06/20/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's going to be a significant chunk of the population that's gonna get a wake up call from this. Maybe not death, but probably a really rough time and possible permanent issues. The long term implications on our health system are scary.
P.s. if anyone else here does any diving, it's being recommended that you go and see a dive doctor, specifically, for a full check up if you're a recovered covid patient, before you attempt to dive again.
http://divemagazine.co.uk/skills/8907-serious-problems-diving-after-covid19
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: pirate-blues]
#26759461 - 06/20/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I doubt they'll wake up. More like blame others instead.
But it would be nice.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: InfiniteDreams]
#26759463 - 06/20/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said: I appreciate you starting this thread and your perseverance.
I had a feeling this thread would go viral. No puns. Seriously. Strangely enough, sitting under a bridge, literally, I saw the original OP video and knew something was up.
There were too many words at that time, so all I could come up with was "Here we go.".
I never would have imagined it being turned into what we are witnessing.
So much division within our own country. Mask, no mask. Open, lock down. Six feet, have sex. And dare I say, black, white.
While other countries band together to defeat whatever 'invisible' enemy, USA is becoming more divided, on more than one aspect.
IMO, big pharmacy is an enemy that gazes should heavily fall upon. With mandatory vaccines and already billions invested into production of potentially unsafe vaccines, which gold standard placebo trials are being ignore.
Coronaviruses have a long standing history of troubles with vaccine test in animals. When given vaccine, antibodies are produced, though when said virus being tested, a 'challenge study', is exposed to animals with antibodies, leading to pulmonary immunopathology.
More science, from 2002 here. History, see?
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421
"Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus
Background Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) emerged in China in 2002 and spread to other countries before brought under control. Because of a concern for reemergence or a deliberate release of the SARS coronavirus, vaccine development was initiated. Evaluations of an inactivated whole virus vaccine in ferrets and nonhuman primates and a virus-like-particle vaccine in mice induced protection against infection but challenged animals exhibited an immunopathologic-type lung disease.
Design Four candidate vaccines for humans with or without alum adjuvant were evaluated in a mouse model of SARS, a VLP vaccine, the vaccine given to ferrets and NHP, another whole virus vaccine and an rDNA-produced S protein. Balb/c or C57BL/6 mice were vaccinated IM on day 0 and 28 and sacrificed for serum antibody measurements or challenged with live virus on day 56. On day 58, challenged mice were sacrificed and lungs obtained for virus and histopathology.
Results All vaccines induced serum neutralizing antibody with increasing dosages and/or alum significantly increasing responses. Significant reductions of SARS-CoV two days after challenge was seen for all vaccines and prior live SARS-CoV. All mice exhibited histopathologic changes in lungs two days after challenge including all animals vaccinated (Balb/C and C57BL/6) or given live virus, influenza vaccine, or PBS suggesting infection occurred in all. Histopathology seen in animals given one of the SARS-CoV vaccines was uniformly a Th2-type immunopathology with prominent eosinophil infiltration, confirmed with special eosinophil stains. The pathologic changes seen in all control groups lacked the eosinophil prominence.
Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21645515.2016.1177688
"Immunization with inactivated Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus vaccine leads to lung immunopathology on challenge with live virus
ABSTRACT To determine if a hypersensitive-type lung pathology might occur when mice were given an inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine and challenged with infectious virus as was seen with SARS-CoV vaccines, we prepared and vaccinated mice with an inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine. Neutralizing antibody was induced by vaccine with and without adjuvant and lung virus was reduced in vaccinated mice after challenge. Lung mononuclear infiltrates occurred in all groups after virus challenge but with increased infiltrates that contained eosinophils and increases in the eosinophil promoting IL-5 and IL-13 cytokines only in the vaccine groups. Inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine appears to carry a hypersensitive-type lung pathology risk from MERS-CoV infection that is similar to that found with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines from SARS-CoV infection.
Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) emerged in 2002 and 2012 respectively and were shown to be caused by a new coronavirus (CoV), now designated as SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, respectively.1,2 The SARS epidemic was brought under control by using infection control methods. Because of continued outbreaks, vaccines for MERS are urgently needed.
Preclinical evaluations of inactivated subunit and whole-virus vaccines for SARS have elicited serum neutralizing antibody and protection against infection in monkeys, ferrets and mice challenged with infectious SARS-CoV. However, challenged animals exhibited an immunopathologic-type lung reaction, and these results led to safety concerns relative to SARS-CoV vaccines.3,4 Moreover, due to the apparent epidemiologic control of SARS, along with these findings, clinical trials of SARS-CoV vaccines were placed on hold.
With the rise of MERS, we decided to revisit the vaccines prepared for SARS studies and initially prepared a small batch of whole inactivated virus (WIV) for evaluation. We then began tests to determine if vaccination with inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine would result in immunopathology in vaccinated hosts similar to that seen with SARS-CoV. A mouse model for studies of MERS-CoV was not initially available since mice and other small animals lack the MERS-CoV receptor. For this reason, we developed a transgenic mouse model containing the human DPP4 receptor.5,6 Availability of this model provided the opportunity to assess whether an inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine would induce protection against MERS-CoV infection but also induce an eosinophil-containing pulmonary immunopathology as had similar SARS-CoV vaccines. This is the first report that a similar risk for immunopathology appears to exist for MERS-CoV-inactivated vaccines despite an ability to protect against infection.
The WIV stock was prepared by gamma (γ) irradiating (5 mega-rads, cobalt-60) aliquots of Vero E6-derived, cell-free MERS-CoV (∼1.2 × 108 TCID50/ml). Inactivated supernatants, negative in rigorous isolation tests, were subjected to polyethylene glycol/salt precipitation, purified by sucrose density centrifugation,7 and diluted in PBS to an equivalent of ∼1 × 107 TCID50/ml. Western blot analysis by using a rabbit anti-MERS-CoV antibody demonstrated virus structural proteins including surface protein (S) and nucleoprotein (data not shown).
For assessing the immunogenicity and protective efficacy of this WIV as well as its potential to elicit immunopathology upon live virus challenge of vaccinated animals, groups of six hCD26/DPP4 transgenic mice were immunized intramuscularly (I.M.) twice, three weeks apart. Mice received 100 µl of WIV only, WIV adjuvanted with alhydrogel 2% (alum) or with MF59 (Invivogen), or alum or MF59 only, according to protocols approved by the IACUC committee at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Sera were collected 21 days after the second immunization for micro-neutralization antibody tests; mice were then challenged intranasally (I.N.) with 103 TCID50 (100 LD50) of MERS-CoV,6 and sacrificed on days 3 or 6 (3 from each group on each day) for assessing lung viral loads by Vero E6-based infection and quantitative (q) PCR assays targeting the UpE gene of MERS-CoV, and lung cytokines transcriptional profiling of TH1 (IFN-γ) and TH2 (IL-5 and IL-13) in qRT-PCR assays as previously described.
Additionally, de-paraffinized sections were stained with either routine hematoxylin-and-eosin (H&E) for histopathologic evaluations or an antibody specific to eosinophil major basic protein (MBP), provided by the Lee Laboratory, for confirming eosinophil infiltrations, as described.
Figure 1 shows that neither adjuvant alone group developed detectable neutralizing antibodies, whereas all vaccine groups developed significantly greater neutralizing antibody responses than the group with adjuvant alone (P < 0.01). Further, the mean titer for WIV/MF59 was higher than that for the WIV/Alum group (P < 0.01). Consistent with the absence of specific antibody response, infectious virus was readily detected in the lungs of three infected animals immunized with alum only (MF59 group not available) on days 3 and 6, with an average of 103.1 and 102.8 TCID50/gm, respectively, in which the limit of detection (LOD) in the Vero E6 cell-based infectivity assay was ∼101.8 TCID50/gm. In contrast, infectious virus remained undetectable in all of the vaccine groups at either time (Fig. 2A–B). Titers of viral RNA, as revealed by qRT-PCR assays and expressed as TCID50 equivalents, were also compared among the groups. All groups exhibited detectable viral RNAs (Fig. 2C–D). The titers were lower in all vaccine groups on day 3 but none were significantly lower than those of the controls (Fig. 2C); however, the titer for each vaccine group on day 6 was significantly lower than those of either adjuvant only group (P < 0.01) (Fig. 2D). The titers in the WIV/MF59 group were also significantly lower than those in either of the other 2 vaccine groups (P < 0.01)
Mean serum-neutralizing antibody titers to MERS-CoV of vaccinated mice 3 weeks after the second immunization. Alum and MF59 are adjuvant only groups, WIV is whole inactivated vaccine (WIV) only, Alum/WIV is WIV formulated with Alum adjuvant, MF59/WIV is WIV formulated with MF59 adjuvant. The serum neutralizing antibody titers are expressed as Geometric Mean Titer (GMT) based on a 2-fold dilution sequence beginning at 1:2 (Log2). * Significantly different (P < 0.01) after correcting for multiple comparisons.
Figure 2. Mean viral titers of MERS-CoV on days 3 and 6 after intranasal challenge of vaccinated mice with 100 LD50 of MERS-CoV. Lung homogenates and total RNAs extracted from tissues of vaccinated mice at days 3 and 6 post challenge with MERS-CoV were subjected to Vero E6 cell-based infectivity assay and one-step real-time RT-PCR analyses targeting the upE gene of MERS-CoV for assessing viral loads, as previously described (5,6). A serial 10-fold diluted MERS-CoV stock with a titer of 107 TCID50/ml was included in parallel during the quantitative PCR assays to calculate and express the levels of upE gene expression in individual specimens as log10 TCID50 equivalents per gram of tissue. Alum and MF59 are adjuvant-only groups, WIV is whole inactivated vaccine (WIV) only, Alum/WIV is WIV formulated with Alum, MF59/WIV is WIV formulated with MF59. A: Vero E6-based infectious viral titers at Day 3, B: Vero E6-based infectious viral titers at Day 6, C: RT-PCR-based viral load at Day 3, and D: RT-PCR-based viral load at Day 6. * Significantly different (P < 0.01) after correcting for multiple comparisons.
No gross pathology was noted on either day 3 or 6 (data not shown); however, histopathology was noted in all groups on both days. On a severity scale of 0 to 3 (none, mild, moderate, severe), H&E-stained samples from the Alum and MF59 only groups were graded 1 on both days 3 and 6 for mononuclear cell infiltrations, including lymphocytes, macrophages/monocytes, while each vaccine group was grade 2 on both days (Table 1). Lung sections were similarly scored 0 to 3 for eosinophil infiltrations. As shown in Figure 3 (left), few eosinophils (MBP+ brown) were detected in the peribronchiolar space (Alum, day 3) or alveolar wall (MF59, day 3). This level of eosinophilic infiltration was similar to that revealed in infected mice without prior manipulation, and scored as 0. However, moderate levels (scored 2) of eosinophilic infiltration into peribronchiolar or perivascular spaces could be readily observed at day 3 (Fig. 3, right) and spread to alveoli of mice at day 6 p.i. in each vaccine group (data not shown).
Figure 3. Representative photomicrographs of lung tissue 3 days after challenge of previously vaccinated mice with MERS-CoV. Lung sections were stained with an antibody directed specifically against eosinophilic major basic protein as described (3); eosinophils are brown. The vaccine groups (alum only, MF59 only, WIV only, WIV plus Alum and WIV plus MF59) and the eosinophil infiltration severity score (E0 and E2) are noted on the micrograph; E0 is none, E2 is moderate.
Pulmonary cytokine profiling of vaccinated and challenged mice was performed by using qRT-PCR assays.5 Because of the small number of animals in each test group,3 cytokine assays were performed twice. The day 3 pattern was similar in each test, and there were no significant differences between tests (Fig. 4). Some cytokine activities were seen in the adjuvant only groups but were not significantly different from those in uninfected animals. However, significant increases were seen for all 3 cytokines tested in the vaccine groups. Notable are the increases of IL-5 and IL-13, cytokines associated with hypersensitivity reactions that include eosinophil infiltrations. Cytokine levels were lower for the vaccine groups for IL-5 and IL-13 at day 6 and not significantly greater than those for the uninfected; however, IFN-γ was significantly increased for the WIV, WIV/MF59 and MF59 only groups (P < 0.01) (data not shown).
Figure 4. Mean lung cytokine levels on day 3 after challenge of vaccinated mice with MERS-CoV. Alum and MF59 are adjuvant only groups, WIV is whole inactivated vaccine (WIV) only, Alum/WIV is WIV formulated with Alum, MF59/WIV is WIV formulated with MF59. Test 1 and test 2 are separate day tests of the same lung tissue specimen. Results are mean fold increase over naïve transgenic mice based on ΔCt values of each group in reference to those of the internal mouse GAPDH gene. * Significantly greater than for the naïve mouse group (P < 0.01) after correcting for multiple comparisons; ** P = 0.026.
This study was conducted to test whether an inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine would induce neutralizing antibody and protection against MERS-CoV infection and yet lead to a hypersensitivity-type lung immunopathologic reaction with eosinophil infiltrations when challenged with infectious virus, as had been seen with SARS-CoV-inactivated vaccines.3 The results suggest that a similar risk exists for inactivated MERS-CoV vaccines.
The vaccine lot size and requirement for transgenic mice limited the study group sizes. Because of concern for immununogenicity, we included MF59 adjuvant groups since the MF59 adjuvant had been reported to induce superior antibody responses when compared with other adjuvants for a MERS-CoV receptor-binding domain (RBD) protein-based vaccine.12 Serum neutralizing antibody and protection against infection were found in the vaccine alone and both adjuvant groups, but each also exhibited a hypersensitivity-type lung reaction after challenge that included increased pathology with eosinophil infiltrations.
Immune reactions leading to eosinophil infiltrations are considered hypersensitivity reactions and are TH2-type responses mediated via TH2 cytokines.10 Notable cytokines that promote eosinophil infiltrations are IL-5 and IL-13.13 We found this association in the lungs of vaccinated and challenged animals, providing support for the vaccination-related hypersensitivity concept.
Support for attributing the immunopathology to a TH2-type immune response has been provided by immunizations with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines and TH1-type adjuvants. Studies in mice with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines given with a TH1 adjuvant did not exhibit a similar immunopathologic reaction after virus challenge.
The finding for MERS-CoV vaccine and the similar findings for SARS-CoV vaccines are reminiscent of those reported in mice given a formalin-inactivated, whole-virus respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) vaccine and challenged with infectious RSV.16-18 Protection against infection occurred despite an increased histopathology. A similar RSV vaccine given to infants had led to increased pulmonary disease severity and 2 deaths.19,20 The component(s) of the vaccine that led to the immunopathology have not been identified, but have been suggested to be viral components as well as contaminants and formalin effects. However, Immunopathology with SARS-CoV vaccines occurred for whole-virus vaccines, subunit vaccines, different inactivation methods, different preparation substrates, and with recombinant surface (S) protein.
This experience may indicate that the responsible components(s) for the SARS and MERS-CoV vaccines are viral. Results of studies with vector vaccines point to the nucleoprotein (N) protein as responsible for the immunopathological effects seen and indicate that the S protein might be free of the risk; however, rS protein induced the pathology.3,21,22 Identifying and remedying the specific basis for the immunopathology would facilitate vaccine trials in humans.
The implication of the current study is that application of an inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine for prevention of MERS in humans may carry a risk for lung immunopathology if subsequently exposed to MERS-CoV. The study also leads us to suggest that the extensive background of preclinical experience with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines may be applicable to inactivated MERS-CoV vaccines.
The major limitation of the current study is the small number of animals in the evaluations that reduces the strength of the findings. Nevertheless, the findings seem clear that a risk similar to that of the SARS-CoV vaccine exists for the MERS-CoV vaccine. Additional data supporting the belief that the immunopathology represents a TH2-biased response and that it also occurs for other MERS-CoV vaccines as it did for SARS-CoV vaccines is contemplated in future studies.
Disclosure of potential conflicts of interest No potential conflicts of interest were disclosed."

Whew, that's a lot of words there. Now, I'll admit I didn't read much of any of that, being an ignorant toddler.
Could someone, any one of you, decipher through that and maybe make an audio summary so I can lay back on my couch and listen while I stuff Cheetos and beer down my fat throat.
Remember, ignorant toddler here who needs his hand held and to be told to wear his mask.
Go ahead, get those SARS-Cov vaccines. Enjoy those cytokine storms.
Edited by HamHead (06/20/20 09:49 AM)
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: pirate-blues] 1
#26759589 - 06/20/20 10:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
pirate-blues said: There's going to be a significant chunk of the population that's gonna get a wake up call from this. Maybe not death, but probably a really rough time and possible permanent issues. The long term implications on our health system are scary.
P.s. if anyone else here does any diving, it's being recommended that you go and see a dive doctor, specifically, for a full check up if you're a recovered covid patient, before you attempt to dive again.
http://divemagazine.co.uk/skills/8907-serious-problems-diving-after-covid19
In MA we're seeing a lot of people having heart attacks, developing fatal pneumonia, kidney issues etc weeks or days after clearing from COVID. These numbers won't show on the death toll.
My mother who the doctors think had it back in February, has had a liter of fluid drained from her lungs and needed her kidneys stinted in the past two weeks. They found masses of systemic inflammation around the kidneys that will need to be biopsied next week. They have no idea what it is or how to treat, and there are a lot of these complications popping up in people post-COVID. She was perfectly healthy before the suspected COVID in Feb.
And then of course there's this, which for some reason isn't being talked about much:
"The authors also conclude that the absence of symptoms may not imply an absence of harm. CT scans conducted on 54% of 76 asymptomatic individuals on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, appear to show significant subclinical lung abnormalities, raising the possibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection impacting lung function that might not be immediately apparent." https://www.axisimagingnews.com/radiology-products/imaging-equipment/ct/ct-scans-show-lung-injury-in-asymptomatic-carriers-of-covid-19
Seems like it's becoming increasingly evident that lack of symptoms isn't even an indicator of lack of long-term damage.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers] 3
#26759631 - 06/20/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think most peoples' way of thinking is flawed in that they perceive illness as the symptoms, or the feeling of being sick.
A virus doesn't care about making you feel any sort of way, if anything it'd thrive best off of you continuing to be a happy healthy-feeling spreader, maybe with a couple coughs thrown in for optimal results. That doesn't mean it's not inside of you wreaking havok, not every form of cellular destruction or immune response causes a felt result.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers]
#26759702 - 06/20/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Florida did it again. More than 4,000 new cases today. I don’t understand why nobody in the state government is doing anything about it.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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cannabinated



Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: koods] 1
#26759704 - 06/20/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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they shoulda stopped all those protesters from working out in the street
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers]
#26759716 - 06/20/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: I think most peoples' way of thinking is flawed in that they perceive illness as the symptoms, or the feeling of being sick.
A virus doesn't care about making you feel any sort of way, if anything it'd thrive best off of you continuing to be a happy healthy-feeling spreader, maybe with a couple coughs thrown in for optimal results. That doesn't mean it's not inside of you wreaking havok, not every form of cellular destruction or immune response causes a felt result.
I think many people have been blindsided and didn't know where else to turn to for information and have been bottlenecked by news breaks and others pointing at CDC and WHO like they have all the answers, while ignoring other alternative sources of information, simply calling it stupid or ignorant.
Like information on personal health. Still not much mentioned about personal health regime on mainstream media outlets.
Have you heard Fauci speak on improving lifestyle choices?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: HamHead] 1
#26759748 - 06/20/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lifestyle choices don't really help a whole lot when responding to a viral pandemic, unfortunately for Joe Rogan. If certain parts of your immune system are over-reactive you may even be likely to suffer from a cytokine storm or other damaging response to ward off a viral infection. Not a reason to be unhealthy, but one example of how complex of an issue viral immunity is. It's based more prominently on things like antibodies (even to similar but not identical viruses), initial viral load exposure, and even likely things such as genetics and blood types.
Some basic things like keeping your cardiovascular system healthy and weight down definitely are correlated with better outcomes so far, but it's a little late for that now. Promoting that as some sort of shield from the virus would encourage people to go on extreme diets or begin stressful workout routines to get healthier before they catch it, possibly leaving their body in an even worse state to fight it. You also can't exactly superfood your way out of age, which seems the biggest risk factor. Plenty of young healthy people have caught it, and been knocked down for months with long term after-affects.
Even the Vitamin D stuff still seems super iffy. Many of the tests were done in people with severe cases of COVID, which were often at the stage of organ failure, which leads to the depleted vitamin D levels they found in the tests and tried to link to correlation. It's possible the virus itself even influences the amount of stored vitamin D too. I still take it anyway when I can't get consistent sun, for other reasons but still hoping in the back of my mind there's some covid protection.
There are plenty of doctors and nurses out there with blogs and podcasts about what they're seeing. I'm fortunate enough to have a wife who works in population/public health at one of the hospitals that's on the cutting edge of COVID research at the moment. She's working from home so I inevitably catch some of the conference calls, there's a lot of interesting info but it mostly comes down to "We currently know an extraordinarily small percent of what we need to know about this virus, and how to treat it."
My real fear is that the antibodies won't be long-term, and COVID will become seasonal. The flu is one thing, but our society isn't built for something that comes around and knocks people out for a month, and possibly influences their health permanently (even the asymptomatics) or even kills them. There's no evidence that it'll somehow be a weaker strain that comes back, or even that it won't be a year-round virus instead of just seasonal.
No one is really talking about how this all ends. I'm not too hopeful for a solid vaccine, especially year after year. We still suck at the flu vaccine after half a century. I'm hoping getting it somehow produces some kickass antibodies, but we very well could be facing a reality where sickness and death are far closer to home all the time.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers]
#26759795 - 06/20/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sickness and death are right next to you all the time 24/7 nothings changed except the perception of danger.
Hence the panic and such.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: mushboy]
#26759820 - 06/20/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: nothings changed except the perception of danger.
We're talking about a brand new virus that will likely kill millions across the world and sicken possibly billions, if that virus becomes a permanent fixture that we don't build long-term immunity to and are regularly reinfected with, obviously a whole lot more changes than perception. The statistical likelihood of death and serious illness directly increases for ourselves and everyone around us, at all times.
That's if the antibodies are weak though. We just don't know enough yet. The effects of the virus itself seem to vary too wildly to expect any sort of cure.
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