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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: twighead] * 3
    #26559982 - 03/26/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Which other country so readily applied broad complete lockdowns and erected emergency hospitals with negative air pressure to keep the virus in?

China went "how can we most rationally and proactively act when SARS returns?" they then set aside budget and made provisions and plans and when SARS-2 did come around, it snapped in effect.



More like which country went into complete informational lockdown while psychotically expelling all foreign media at the first sign of a crisis.

Like ya know, every other fucking crisis or slightly negative thing that happens in that country. Just like they covered up the thousands of kids who died in the last major earthquake from the shoddy under-regulation government school construction and imprisoned anyone who dared to report on their dead children. Just like they imprisoned millions of innocent qi gong practitioners with barely a domestic peep.

Typical asante bias naivety though, the truth is clear.




Quote:

A lot of people seem to think that there’s a simple cure for the coronavirus: authoritarianism.

Article after article in the Western press has touted the superiority of China’s response to the West’s, using its draconian lockdown after the Wuhan outbreak to suggest that liberal democracies simply aren’t up to the harsh tasks of preventing disease spread. It’s a message that Chinese government propaganda has been only too happy to echo.

But the unanimous verdict of political scientists and public health scholars I spoke with is that the theory of authoritarian superiority in this crisis is wrong: There is no evidence that one type of political system has performed systematically better against Covid-19 than the other. China’s response, while eventually good, was criminally slow early on — as was Iran’s, another notably authoritarian regime. Meanwhile, democracies like South Korea and Taiwan had some of the best responses anywhere on the planet.

“Among all the factors, [regime type is] going to be at the bottom of the list,” says Joshua Michaud, an associate director for global health policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation. “You can have very poor public health practices in an authoritarian system or a democratic system.”

The myth of authoritarian superiority is not only wrong but actively harmful in two key respects.

First, it lets China off the hook for a botched early response to the coronavirus — one that likely led to the disease becoming a global pandemic in the first place. It turns what should be a damning indictment of certain aspects of the Chinese system into an ideological victory for Beijing.

Second, it gives cover to leaders of allegedly democratic states to claim dangerous emergency powers during the crisis. This is happening right now in both Hungary and Israel, where authoritarian-inclined leaders are using the outbreak as a pretense to seize powers undreamed of in normal times. The myth of authoritarian superiority could well grant unnecessary legitimacy to these dangerous moves — and thus needs to be challenged.



https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21184238/coronavirus-china-authoritarian-system-democracy

China has censored discussion and reporting of coronavirus cases on social media
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51732042
so Chinese citizens developed a code language to be able to discuss it without government intervention
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/03/china-social-media-language-government-censorship-covid/

but that only really lasts as long as it takes the party to figure out the code

China also closed down their most advanced Coronavirus lab -- you know, the one that reported the virus to the world before the party had its official narrative
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052966/chinese-laboratory-first-shared-coronavirus-genome-world-ordered

Hong Kong citizens have memeified the Chinese government's efforts to cover up cases
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-06/coronavirus-asia-pop-culture





it is almost like people fail to realize that it is more than possible for both China and the United States to equally suck on this matter
just measured through different metrics


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koods]
    #26559996 - 03/26/20 08:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Who cares. That doesn’t fix the problem we have now. All this attention on china is designed to shift blame for the current situation we are in that has nothing to do with China. This thread was started in mid January. The shroomery took this more seriously than the US government.




Judging by all the attention in this thread, I think a lot of people care.  It is kind of important to know that China caused a global pandemic.  The US failure doesn't have anything to do with all the illness and death in many other countries.  The US will lie in the bed its made, and if the hype is to be believed, plenty of people in the US will be dead soon.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26560013 - 03/26/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
It is kind of important to know that China caused a global pandemic.



But that is already common knowledge. What now?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: InfiniteDreams] * 2
    #26560017 - 03/26/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:

It is kind of important to know that China caused a global pandemic.





Completely unfair to say that. The Spanish Flu started in Kansas, did the US "cause a global pandemic"?

In the world a crisis arose, and it arose in the most populous country.

Stop blaming China and clean up your mess.

China messed up in the beginning but then got its shit together. They quarantined 700 million people trying to stop this. Trump hasnt even wiped his butt.

Where will be the instant crisis hospitals for Americans?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante]
    #26560021 - 03/26/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koods]
    #26560027 - 03/26/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Cant make it across to China :smile:


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koods] * 4
    #26560029 - 03/26/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Time to look for solutions, not someone to blame IMHO!


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26560033 - 03/26/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:

It is kind of important to know that China caused a global pandemic.





Completely unfair to say that. The Spanish Flu started in Kansas, did the US "cause a global pandemic"?

In the world a crisis arose, and it arose in the most populous country.

Stop blaming China and clean up your mess.



All they had to do was not persecute people who spoke about the virus and not lie.

Its not even merely the fact that they didn't do more its that they did take wildly counter productive and egregious actions.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #26560041 - 03/26/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

China has its problems.

It also has LEGO brick/IKEA style hospitals that can be built in a week, use negative pressure to keep the bugs in, and which are fully equipped and easily relocated.

Has America that kind of provisions for its citizens? Being the richest country in the world thats all about freedom and high standards of living?


--------------------
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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26560043 - 03/26/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:

It is kind of important to know that China caused a global pandemic.





Completely unfair to say that. The Spanish Flu started in Kansas, did the US "cause a global pandemic"?

In the world a crisis arose, and it arose in the most populous country.

Stop blaming China and clean up your mess.

China messed up in the beginning but then got its shit together. They quarantined 700 million people trying to stop this. Trump hasnt even wiped his butt.

Where will be the instant crisis hospitals for Americans?




Spanish flu wasn't really in a similiarly interconnected world

but when Mad Cow disease popped up, there were more cases in Canadian cows than in US cows
but McDonald's in South Korea made sure to advertise that they did not use US beef

seems to have first been discovered in the UK prior to that high profile series of outbreaks tho

Would ask Chinese citizens how they feel about their government covering up cases in reporting to the international community
but, you know, they are banned from Western platforms and my Chinese is nowhere near good enough to do more than search for specific character classes in Chinese MMORPG videos on youku



Quote:

“Every day, a couple to over 10 cases of covert infections of the virus are being detected,” Caixin’s report, published Monday, quoted the China CDC staff member as saying. “It’s hard to judge now whether the spread of the virus in Wuhan has been thoroughly cut off.”

A silent carrier — a term referring to a person who has been infected with the COVID-19 virus but does not show symptoms — is different from a “confirmed patient” or “suspected patient” under China’s national guidelines for diagnosing and treating the disease. The fifth version of the guideline, issued Feb. 4, stated for the first time that silent carriers could potentially infect others.



http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1005367/wuhan-grapples-with-silent-carriers-absent-from-official-data

personally can't give China credit for the same form of under-reporting that my post this morning was critical of my own provincial government for doing


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26560047 - 03/26/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

China has built a wall to shut us out.

Let us focus on our problems on our side of their wall, and let China focus on theirs.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26560052 - 03/26/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Germany has warned its citizens to evacuate from the United States

I predicted the US would hit 100k cases on Saturday

It will happen tomorrow


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (03/26/20 09:04 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26560053 - 03/26/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sh4d0ws said:



I seriously doubt that



why?

the only hallmark clinical signs differentiating COVID19 from other types of pneumonia are lymphopenia (low white blood cell count- unusual in most infections but present in 80% of hospitalized COVID19 patients) and some imaging signs

they probably wondered for a little while why some people with severe viral pneumonia were coming up negative for flu and such and had a low WBC. they probably spent some time ruling out SARS-1 in some of these patients. they probably did some head scratching for like a month

but until you have a substantial population of people head scratch inducers, a new viral respiratory illness can easily go undetected for a while


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante]
    #26560055 - 03/26/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
China has built a wall to shut us out.

Let us focus on our problems on our side of their wall, and let China focus on theirs.




Like we did with the wall in Germany?


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante]
    #26560061 - 03/26/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
China has built a wall to shut us out.

Let us focus on our problems on our side of their wall, and let China focus on theirs.



Thats all well and good until there are externalities.


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26560064 - 03/26/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

My temperature is 98.8.


--------------------


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26560065 - 03/26/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

We have problems enough in our own countries, caused by our own lax governments and inert citizenry, to start pointing fingers in blame.

Lets keep it constructive.


Quote:

koods said:
Germany has warned its citizens to evacuate from the United States

I predicted the US would hit 100k cases on Saturday

It will happen tomorrow




--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26560067 - 03/26/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Major hospitals in Massachusetts are not testing anyone who doesn't immediately require hospitalization right now. Lots of people coming in bad shape being told to come back when if/when it gets worse.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Crazy_Horse] * 1
    #26560069 - 03/26/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
My temperature is 98.8.




ur gonna die


What’s the highest temperature you’ve ever had? Mine was 103.5° it came on suddenly lasted an hour and then went away. I never got sick. I have no idea what caused it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (03/26/20 09:15 PM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante] * 2
    #26560071 - 03/26/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
We have problems enough in our own countries, caused by our own lax governments and inert citizenry, to start pointing fingers in blame.

Lets keep it constructive.


Quote:

koods said:
Germany has warned its citizens to evacuate from the United States

I predicted the US would hit 100k cases on Saturday

It will happen tomorrow







Was it not constructive to point out that it is inappropriate for you to be pointing your finger at other countries for not following China's example?

You went pretty quickly from "look how awesome China's government say it is, let's all model China"
to "let's not talk about China now that there is information about citizen dissatisfaction and under-reporting of cases"


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