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Melbourne Victoria Australia (many pics, subs/ spores etc)
    #2644395 -

Greetings all, I?ve never posted here before so firstly a bit of feedback? Congratulations on a *fantastic* site/ set of forums. Takes me back to the good old days of my youth when a bunch of us used to hunt up P.aurig?s in the pine-forests on the outskirts of the ACT? Yep very informative site indeed, I love all the fungi pics, magic and otherwise, and the comments about chemical conversions etc (obviously posted by peeps with quite extensive knowledge in chemistry!). I?m also impressed with how responsible the advice supplied here re psychedelics is? ?Gung-ho amateurs? are quickly warned that they have the wrong attitude, which is important, and has probably led to a great many bad trips being avoided!
I have recently acquired a real interest in fungi, partly due to this site? did 6 months of botany at uni as part of a BSc, but they didn?t really go much into fungi that much in terms of particular species? I also finally got a digital camera that has ?macro? function, so I?ve been able to snap a few shrooms from my local park here in Melbourne (Australia). I?d be interested in guesses on species if anyone in the know wants to have a geeze at the pics attached? None are magic (possible exception #7a/ 7b{{*Subsequent edit; 7a and 7b are subs}}), I?m now kinda interested in ALL fungi, thought I?d try and take a short-cut re ID?ing some of the local shrooms, by posting a few pics here and seeing if anyone chimes in with ?oh that?s definitely (xyz)? etc? I will be tracking down more net ref?s/ comparing pictures etc (anyone know of a good ?phylogenetic tree? re shroom genus/ species on the web btw?) with the ones I see around, but any guesses at species would be appreciated (I understand they can only be guesses given a couple of specimens in a digital photo !)?
I also have a few questions about magic shrooms that I?m sure you guys can answer informatively. Hope they?re not too tedious/ someone can be bothered reading them!

1st, what is the truth of the matter re the common adage (wives tale?) ?1 tiny wee shroom is as potent as that same shroom when it grows big??? I suspect this is rubbish, because in Indonesia my guide whizzed of into the valley occasionally and came back with about 50 TINY shrooms (very fat stalks orangy/ gold tops, edge of cap still attached to stalk, looked like a little gold ball on a fat white stalk) which we would slowly consume? all up probably only 5 to 8g each, but a heap of mushies in total, cause they were tiny? had great experiences, nothing too heavy at all. On the other hand, in Thailand a lot of the shrooms we?d find growing up around the hotel where pretty big (2-3 inch) and 5 or 7 of those suckers was quite sufficient, and probably weighed in at about 5 ? 8g or so. Now these where a different species (a very ?white? shroom before picking, the blue bruising reaction thus v. striking, cap pulls away from stalk and flattens quickly/ early in fruiting stage), so maybe it?s not a fair comparison. That said the subs? we used to hunt in the ACT (Australia) also seemed to me fairly reliable re potency if you gaged it by approximate weight, not the number of actual mushies.
So I?ve never had much faith in that adage about a mushy being ?born? with all the potency it will ever have? thus I suspect weight can be a fairly reliable measure... Any thoughts appreciated?

2nd, In the ACT (Australia) we used to camp over night at the spot, gather up shrooms (subbies) while having a BBQ etc, break off the caps of some of the older flat ones and lay them out nearish the fire? and of the night we would cut them up and sprinkle them around up and down the valley? was this wise, or a waste of mushies ? I guess my real question is would the accelerated drying have destroyed the spores (shrooms were probably dried at around 45-50 degrees or so, under ?DNA melting? temp), and would it have been better to cut them up and spread them around fresh (ie when and where we found them) in our efforts to ensure future happy trails?? One other fella I?ve hunted with in ACT used to lob the bigger more mature mushies into a pretty loosely woven (roughly 3mm holes) bag, that he sort of swung around a bit as he searched? his theory was that while he was taking a fair few shrooms (possibly to the disappointment of others searching the area the next day), he was also spreading spores around, thus actually doing the shroomers a favour? I wondered if a wet mushy would actually RELEASE many spores at all, but didn?t have the heart to question him strongly on the issue? Another mate used to take a much simpler approach, before picking any mushie he would give it about 5 hard flicks to the top of the cap, his theory being that that would at least liberate a few spores from the cap, and these could ?help for next year??
As it happened whenever they were ?on? they were well and truly on, but I?ve always wondered to what extent that was cause we used to often sprinkle mushies around the place/ the string-bag method/ the cap flicking method, and to what extent it was natural (ie woulda happened anyway).
Any thoughts appreciated.

3rd, is the ?blue bruising reaction? an absolute indicator of the presence of the actual chemicals psilocin (forgive me the spelling chemists) or psilocybin ? What I mean is is one of those chemicals actually involved in the ?blue? colour change chemical reaction. Pictures 7a and 7b are shrooms from aforementioned park in Victoria (Australia). They resemble but do not seem to be the same species as the subs we used to find in the ACT (Australia). I might be being tricked because of the size of the shrooms (they?re all small/ early, the clusters in the pics stand about 3cm high), but my ?gut reaction? (no pun intended, I haven?t eaten any!) is that they are not subs, but this brings me back to the blue bruising reaction? the shrooms in pics #7a and 7b definitely bruise blue, though the cam did not capture this colour very well? off-right of shroom in pic #7b I?ve sprayed a colour using photo-shop or sommat that seems to come up on the screen the same actual colour as the reaction/ real life. I am also seeing the very thin line of almost black looking colouration at the very edge/ perimeter of the cap, that I remember fondly as a reliable indicator in the ACT subs.
Again, my main question here is whether the chemicals psilocin or psilocybin are REQUIRED for this blue-bruising effect, and if so are any non-psycho-active anologues of these chemicals known in fungi, that can still elicit the blue-bruising?
Any thoughts appreciated.


4th, any guesses on species re the shrooms in pics 7a and 7b ? They appear to have sprung up based on a bit of moisture followed by heat, but not got enough subsequent rain to keep growing (Melbourne still too dry !!); they were kind of drying out, even though they were just juveniles? I bagged less than 10% of what was there roots and all, for photographic purposes? they definitely bruise blue? hard to tell with no ?adults? around?
Any thoughts appreciated.


5th, relates to an earlier question about spores, what are the chances of getting any spores from a young (yet naturally dry) shroom ? My real question here is can/ do some mushies produce spores when triggered by an environmental cue NO MATTER HOW OLD / BIG/ MATURE the fruiting body is, or should I expect no spores to come of young/ stunted fruiting caps, no matter how carefully I dry them??
Any thoughts appreciated.

Hmm a large post, wonder if it will work? wonder how easy it is to upload pics? if I cannae upload them all at once I?ll get them all up over the next day or 3?
eagerly awaiting any thoughts,

SubOriginal

PS looks like upload limits may foil my plans, I'll post pics day by day as allowed... Melbourne Victoria Australia (many pics, subs/ spores etc)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2651459 -

Pics 7a and 7b... They are very strong as it turns out btw... 2 experienced trippers, 3 small shrooms each (<3 grams!), irises all but disappeared, they laughed all night/ gr8 time had by all...








Edited by suboriginal (06/02/04 08:39 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2652584 -

1. yes, especially in regards to woodloving mushrooms (eg. p. subaeruginosa)... the smaller mushrooms can be VERY potent, definitely more potent by weight than the more mature mushrooms.

2. apparently flicking the caps doesn't do much at all... when the veil breaks, the mushroom is going to drop spores, flicking the cap won't make much of a difference. just pick the mature ones with a broken veil and leave the juveniles.

3. not 100% sure what the blue bruising is from, though i think most people expect that it is the psilocin oxidising (so possibly mushrooms with lots of psilocin but not so much psilocybin will bruise alot more bluely than those with a greater ratio of psilocybin to psilocin)

4. looks like you have p. subaeruginosa there. try to break them off at the base of the stem rather than ripping chunks of mycelium out of the ground, this will be alot more beneficial to them growing in the future than flicking the caps.

5. get a freshie to make a spore print from :smile: note that a wild print will have plenty of contaminations so you'll either have to work from agar to colonise them or else just distribute the spores somewhere and hope they will grow from that. even easier, take a little prespawned mycelium from the spot you picked them, and transport it somewhere else.

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: jimbu]
    #2652700 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ]
    #2652761 -

Thanks Jimbu, thought as much re species ID after the night was had, but must say they don't look exactly like the subs from ACT, though this may well be because they are kinda 'water starved' (essentially they seem to have been triggored by a couple of bursts of heavy rain, but are now all drying up and dying at small size cause of no follow-up rain).
... also, I now have newfound respect for the 'size may not matter so much' philosophy, based on your advice and the potency of these wee shrooms. To qualify, that was 3g (max) WET, and quite strong effects... subbies be warned! Just to reassure you, I only took a very small % of what was growing, and grabbed the whole culture only incase it helped with the photo ID... all caps where also dutifully dried on ste rilised paper ;-)


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2652996 -

More pics of local (non-active) mushies to come on this thread for possibble ID... there's millions in the park at the moment! I suspect these are Strophoria sp. (auratiaca?) but don't know... stand abomut 3 or 3.5cm high, but look like they could grow bigger if there was enough water around...
Any thoughts appreciated


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653014 -

Stroph methinks... (auratiaca?)


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653081 -

Methinks maybe Mycena sp. (cystidioza?) in this pic... old (top left) and young (bottom right)...
Very unsure about this ID, there's a lot of brown shrooms around !!!



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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653548 -

A bit beside the point but not entirely... the Melb museum is currently pretty awesome... free for kids (<12), students and health-CC holders, otherwise $6.00... there's quite a few 'stuffed' (plastic sprayed ?) shrooms there, amanitas etc named scientifically, could not spot a P for personally... but it was gr8, well worth the visit... the blue-whale skeleton that washed up beside the Gr8 Ocean Rd is also there, the 3D room is also guaranteed to captivate the kids (and some adults; seems they've got better at 3D lately...) goddamn fantastic !!!!


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2655900 -

Here's a pic of the subs next to a pic of non-subs, ... both from the same place in Melbourne, growing a stone's-throw from each other... the non-subs in this pic might be Mycena sp, could be the same shrooms as the ones in the pic I posted earlier and guessed at Mycena sp, just a guess though would appreciate any suggestions...


Edited by suboriginal (06/07/04 11:49 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2655925 -

Here's a pic from the museaum of Mebourne (Australia), one of their shroom exhibits... they supply the scientific name but no info about each... some species that peeps are quite interested in seem to have been carefully omitted, also... CENSORSHIP AT MUSEUM LEVEL !?! (chuckle...)

Also keen to get any thoughts on shroom in 2nd pic, simply called 5.jpg, again found in said woodchippy-location in Melbourne, stood about 2 inches high, no bruising colour, drops black spores...





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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2656040 -

nice find there man, like jimbu said, cut the shrooms from the bottom next time.!


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Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Merkin]
    #2656362 -

Ta Mez, yep I used to do just that with the (ACT) strain I was very familiar with, I just grabbed the entire culture of a few specimens this time as I was unsure of species/ thought it might help with a photo ID... also I only took a small fraction of what was there so I don't feel too bad!! Another thing I did as well as making spore-prints from the caps (just for fun) was microwave a couple of plant-pots full of peat-moss, 'flush' them briefly with room-temp newly opened bottled water then plunge in the 'root-stick' ... no joy yet, but no contamination yet either... here's hoping !!!


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2659303 -

Here's some pics of the spores from the P.subaerugs above Incase anyone's interested. The 200x and 500x are while the spores are still on the print (paper)... the 1000x (oil immersion) lens didn't penetrate the paper well so I brushed a few onto the glass slide itself to get that shot. I'll also include another pic of the little guys that yielded these spores in this post... {curious subsequent edit; I reckon the 4th spore down strongly resembles a penguin, and I haven't even had any shrooms or the like for years... !!}





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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2667176 -

Hi shroomers, here's a couple of pics of spore-prints from various shrooms from Melbourne, P. subaeruginosa is number 4 as indicated in pic... the subby made a great print, despite being apparently 'immature' (gills only just separated from stem, diameter about 1.8cm when caught, diameter didn't decrease much after drying, indicating not as much water content as a mature shroom) when picked, which surprised me... as I've postulated in other posts, I suspect a decade or so of hunting might just have 'selected' for genetic variants that can sporolate 'early'/ while still pretty juvenile... not a bad thing I suppose !! Pics are posted BIG to show detail... to view them full size you might have to right click on thumbnail and 'save target as' then open with your fave' image viewing program... they look OK when resized to fit the screen though...




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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2671101 -

Some of those other shrooms are - as you point out - stropharia aurantiaca - a lepiota - a psathyrella??


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2700630 -

Here's a cute 'family' of non-PA shrooms I found and snapped in my fave' location in suburban Melbourne... Mycenas methinks, but I'm still on my L's ... kinda cool how 'old-man' shroom, pappa shroom and baby shroom are all in the same shot... you reckon Mycena sp. B-meanie...? Anyone ? I've also been trying to grow up mycelia from wild spore-prints of various species from there (magic or not), I'll attach a pic of possible mycelia culture from the P.subaerug's, growing on potato/ rice - broth/ sugar agar... darker stuff is undoubtedly some sorta' nasty contam' (it's from a wild caught shroom after all), but the whiter stuff looks promising though... I'll try subculturing with various methods ('pot-luck' picks/ series dilution (for isolated cultures) and 'streak plate'... Still loving this site... thanks for responses all... just so it's clear, the mycelia pic is NOT from the same species as the other pic in this post...





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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2701931 -

HJHV

Edited by bluemeanie (02/02/07 06:12 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2702577 -

Here's a series of annoying newbie questions...
1. How long after rain will P.subs last?
2. Are there P.Australians around Melbs or is P.Subs the be-all and end-all of trippy shrooms?
3. Do they grow in the open as well as sheltered under trees (cause the most promising spot I know doesn't have much tree cover)

Lastly, there seems to be a bit of variation in the photos. For example, on zebes post (Melbourne find) the caps on older mushrooms are a bit flatter, and has lost its yellow-brown colour to make the whole shroom univerisally light grey. Was this just because the mushroom had dried out and lost it's colour?

these are probably the same questions asked in every newbie post, but the FAQs don't have all the answers- as it is all about the states and P.cubensis mostly.

Thanks


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Why are drugs better than sex?
Because you can GET drugs!

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: melbournio]
    #2704545 -

ps australiana is the same mushroom as ps subaeruginosa - the only different is that is generally the wavycapped variant. They grow in shaded or wet pine bark mluch, wood debris and under pine trees but with less flushes on pine needles.
Suboriginal - im not sure what they are - could be mycena, coprinus or something like that - itneresting ones none the less..


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: melbournio]
    #2710443 -

Hi Melbournio...
1. They can last quite a few days after the last rain, as long as no parasites/ moulds/ bacteria get to them... I've seen them looking fine and healthy, though a bit dry and leathery, a week after the last rain... I should mention that these were the ACT subs, from the pine-forests... in truth it was 'mixed-growth' bush, some was ex-pine plantation restocked with eucalypt trees etc, so I'm not certain they were the ps australiana variant, but suspect so. The limited experience I've had with the Melbourne subs, I found a few little spots recently about 3 days after rain... (one or 2 pictured above)... I came back each day to see how they were coping without water, most did seem to start dying about 3 or 4 days later (again, about a week after the last rain), but that could have been because of desication or a bacterial infestation, hard to be sure. Then we got some light morning rain, and my little experiment was over ... but I was glad of the rain, for the farmers, you know...

2. A wise shroomer on here put me onto a post/ online text-book by John W. Allen, best source I've ever seen on Australian (and noo-zulland!) shrooms... breaks down distributions into states, and even regions within states... can't stress enough how much of a look this is worth, if you're interested in the local flora...
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/magic_mushrooms_aunz/magic_mushrooms_aunz.shtml

re the 'be all and end all' subaerugs/ Australiana are definately among the strongest psilocybes in the world...

3. They grow in the open, as well as under trees. It's more important what's under 'em, than over 'em... so to speak. I mean to say it's the substrate that counts. Untreated woodchips, re suburban Melbourne.

About the variation in photos, one thing I love about shrooms of all kinds is that they all look different/ individual, even within the same batch (especially subaerugs, it seems...) shrooms of identical species could also take on quite different colours/ visual characteristics etc depending on the substrate they're growing on (nutrients/ chemicals available, could depend on the source of the woodchips, soil composure etc) and how hydrated they are... and probably more subtle things can alter their colour/ appearance/ pattern of growth as well, like the symbiotic species that are around (both growing, and the actual species of the woodchips), the air quality/ pollution levels, microbial infestations, etc etc...
As you've discovered, the best source in existance for pics of Melbourne subs is this site, and the diversity in morphology is remarkable, which is probably why you remarked about it...

Lastly, if you go on a 'bush walk' around Melbourne, make sure you pack/ borrow a digital camera with lots of memory/ batteries... Take pics of ALL the local shrooms you come accross, any species, and post them at the shroomery somewhere where there's other pics of Melbourne species (here or Zebes' recent thread, for example) identifying them as from Melbourne. The diversity of shrooms that pop up in Melbs has not ceased to amaze me, always keen to see pics that others have taken of wierd and wonderful specimens snapped from around here... I'll attach a couple of great close-ups taken by a mate at my favourite haunt recently, with his very funky cam that seems to be able to focus from about 1cm upwards (way closer than the human eye can !!!)... 2 of the pics are from the same shot, crppod differently... the 3rd is a different shroom...
*Gotta love Melbourne, give me the 'city of parks' over the 'city of lights' anyday... ;-)*







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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2714186 -

asd

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2714341 -

I reckon the only way to get to the bottom of it Blue, would be DNA analysis, in conjunction with seeing if the monokaryons from the various 'substrains' could interbreed to form fertile 'hybrids'... that could reveal once and for all whether or not they are truly 'all the same species', that jhave just undergone a bit of selective breeding due to different climates (and no doubt some 'genetic drift' as well), or whether it's justified to classify them as distinct species...
'STR's' (short tandem repeats) in the DNA sequence are what's used to identify specific people/ species (forensic evidence etc), and deduce phylogenetic trees... I'm eagerly awaiting the day some enthusiastic and well informed geneticist delves into the STR profile of the Australian Pscilobybes and can answer this question for us !!!


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2714353 -

PS, could you ask J.Allen what he thinks of this form of analysis/ how valid it would be in context ? I'd love to know, PM me if need be...


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2717562 -

Some more shrooms from the local park in Melbourne, Australia... the first and possibly the second pic as well, are 'shaggy manes' a good eating shroom (non PA) I suspect, based on other pics I've seen on here... {{subsequent edit... got a reliable ID on the shag's from a friend based on actual specimens, ate some small/ young ones (cooked them almost straight after picking to avoid 'inky' conversion, as advised somewhere on this site) cooked in butter/ garlic/ salt and pepper... delicious !}}








Edited by suboriginal (05/25/04 05:53 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2718099 -

And this guy, from same park in Melbourne a few days ago... the whitest shroom I've ever come accross!



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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2721644 -

Just thought i'd share todays finds with the shroomery, this is my first attempt at photographing mushrooms, so go easy :tongue: I'll get lots of practice in this season methinks :smile:

All my patches were mayhem today, more mushrooms than I could be bothered picking, but so many rotten ones that had to be thrown away :frown:

ok here are the pics :smile: All P.Subaeruginosa of course. :laugh:

Had a great haul today, but it was sad (but I guess also kinda comforting) to find that the majority of the mushrooms in the spots i visited (numbering in the hundreds) were rotten. About 50 of those I picked had to be discarded on closer inspection, but still made out with a big haul.

I took some photos, but as this was my first time photographing mushrooms they leave a bit to be desired, any tips are extremely welcome. Dialup users...sorry.



















Nice gills.


Galerina?


Enjoy.

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2721645 -

Thought I would mention here that anyone else is welcome to add pics of their subby (or even non subby) finds of this season to this thread... someone called "Mothershabooboo" has suggested consolidating Melbourne finds into one thread, so they can be easilly browsed. Good idea, so add away guys, if you want to...
NICE PICS HARDICUS (above) btw, especially that one where they're all laid out on the paper, and the 'gills' cap-shot...


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

Edited by suboriginal (05/25/04 05:39 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2726543 -

True - and Chang and Mills did this in 1993 in their study of the subaeruginosa complex - only problem was that they didnt have conclusive specimens of Psilocybe eucalypta and tasmaniana - they did prove- and this was consolidated by Buchanan and Johnson in 1996 was that australiana and subaeruginosa are the same species.
Pluteus from this site is doing RNA/DNA analysis and isozyme protein analysis and cross compatibility tests and i assume he will publish these shortly.


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2726608 -

GROUSE! You go Pluteus... I'm guessing the WHO is not funding this research ?!? chuckle... can someone let me know of any peer reviewed 'mycology specific' journals, if there are any ? There seems to be the odd thing in 'J Anal Toxicol.', 'J Nat Prod.','J Chromatogr B Analyt Technol Biomed Life Sci.', 'Forensic Sci Int.' etc. but these are all 'magic specific' articles, and my interests are wider... is there a peer reviewed myco' specific journal out there ?

PS. this is one article I'd like to get hold of:

"Phylogenetic relationship of psychoactive fungi based on the rRNA gene for a large subunit and their identification using the TaqMan assay." Maruyama T, Yokoyama K, Makino Y, Goda Y.
National Institute of Health Sciences, Tokyo, Japan.
... but I suspect it is in Japanese !!! I do know a translator though...

(ABSTRACT)
"Magic mushrooms" (MMs) are psychoactive fungi containing the and Psychotropics Control Law in Japan. Because there are many kinds of MMs and they are often sold even as dry powders in local markets, it is very difficult to identify the original species of the MMs by morphological observation. Therefore, we investigated the rRNA gene for a large subunit (LSU) of several MMs to classify them by a genetic approach. In this paper, we described the phylogeny of species of MMs based on the partial sequence (about 970 bp) of the LSU and the rapid identification of MMs using the TaqMan PCR assay.

Also I'd like to read/ get a translation of this one, which is definately in Japanese...

"Discrimination of psychoactive fungi (commonly called "magic mushrooms") based on the DNA sequence of the internal transcribed spacer region" [Article in Japanese]
Maruyama T, Shirota O, Kawahara N, Yokoyama K, Makino Y, Goda Y.
National Institute of Health Sciences: 1-18-1, Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan.
(ABSTRACT)
'Magic mushrooms' (MMs) are psychoactive fungi containing the hallucinogenic compounds, psilocin (1) and psilocybin (2). Since June 6, 2002, these fungi have been regulated by the Narcotics and Psychotropics Control Law in Japan. Because there are many kinds of MMs and they are sold even as dry powders in local markets, it is very difficult to identify the original species of the MMs by morphological observation. Therefore, we investigated the internal transcribed spacer (ITS) region in the ribosomal RNA gene of MMs obtained in Japanese markets to classify them by a genetic approach. Based on the size and nucleotide sequence of the ITS region amplified by PCR, tested MMs were classified into 6 groups. Furthermore, a comparison of the DNA sequences of the MMs with those of authentic samples or with those found in the databases (GenBank, EMBL and DDBJ) made it possible to identify the species of tested MMs. Analysis by LC revealed that psilocin (1) was contained at the highest level in Panaeolus cyanescens among the MMs, but was absent in the Amanita species.
(funny that they didn't already know that amanitas have no psilocin or derivatives thereof!...)

Finally, there's also a bit of worrying stuff in the literature about renal failure from psilocybes... if anyone has acccess to the 'full text' of any of these articles, I'd love it if you could EM me a word file or whatever...
Sorry for the long post...


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2731059 -

Went to a great new spot in suburban Melbomurne today with a mate, found about 80 subs, nabbed about 40... many were 'old'/ rotting', a bit of a shame really that no one found them before this, but hey I guess they'll spawn new progeny... I'll attach a couple of pics from my cam, I have no 'upload space' left really though for today, so they're kinda crappy pics... Nice 'natural blue' stalks in pic 2 though... I'll post some way better one's at this entry from my mates (awesome) cam when I have more space... also got some good pics of 'look-alikes' (stroph's etc), I will also post those...  :smile:







--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...

Edited by suboriginal (05/27/04 02:39 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2731150 -

ay suboriginal...  sounds like what i did today....  there were heaps... some moludy, some dry, and heaps of littlies that i left for the next guy... :smile:

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Smiley_Riley]
    #2735379 -

Can someone advise me as to the colour of their P.subaeruginosa spore-prints ? Mine are definitely brown, with no hint of purple at all, so it seems the P.subaerugs may be a bit atypical re the pcilocybes in this respect. Also, under the microscope (pics shown above in this thread) the spores definately seem brown. I have only made spore prints of aerugs from 3 locations, but I'm guessing everyone else finds this to be the case too ?
{{subsequent edit: prints on foil revealed the purple colour... could it be derived from some other particles released from the shroom?}}

Edited by suboriginal (06/07/04 12:54 PM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2735405 -

yeah i have found that the spores of the subs i find are brown aswell,not purple by any stretch of the imagination.


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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]



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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc *DELETED* [Re: suboriginal]
    #2735558 -

Post deleted by zebes

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: zebes]
    #2735607 -

Yeha I find that mine a much closer to brown than purple, maybe a hint of purple in there.

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Hardicus]
    #2736603 -

Here's the first of many fantastic pics to come from yesterdays hunt (Melbourne P.subaeruginosas)... I'd post them quicker/ all at once but for the limitations applied at this site (not bagging the site, I understand limitations are required to make it all workable/ possible)... the shots look better than this, but it pains me to reduce them to below 200kb!!



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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2736637 -

I do wonder why the whole 400kb limit can't be used for a single fantastic shot (in other words, why is there a 200 kb limit 'per file' imposed, why not just have a 4 hunnard k limit per day and leave the limitations there) though ?!? Maybe an admin' can advise me as to the reasoning behind this ...  :sun:


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...

Edited by suboriginal (05/27/04 12:18 PM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2736884 -

A better pic of some of the haul, from my mate's cam... again reduced to a sad fraction of the original rez', in order to post... note the diversity of morphology etc evident though...



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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2738563 -

Wow very nice pics suboriginal, hope you don't mind but i'm gonna nab the first one to post somewhere else as an example of bluing for the noobies, i'll link to this thread :smile:

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Hardicus]
    #2740350 -

No worries m8 :-)


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2740366 -

nice finds guys,
I went and checked out my small last year's patch with no avail :<


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Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2740435 -

You can get free image hosting at www.photobucket.com.
There is a 250kb limit on each image but thats still a 25% improvment.
also using photobucket means the shroomerys 400kb daily limit no longer applies to you.


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]



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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Hanky]
    #2742355 -

More Melbourne P.subaeruginosa pics... no wonder some peeps find it hard to get a grip on what these guys look like... they all look different !!! Couldn't resist sneaking in that 4th pic, it's an only slightly doctored version of a section of pic 3, which is a completely natural shot... ma-a-a-te, these mushies have you seeing little blue monsters chasing each other, and you don't even have to eat'em.















--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...

Edited by suboriginal (05/30/04 04:58 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2744000 -

Experimenting with jpg compression too much lately, I can't decide if this pic' is worth posting or not ... from the same patch as all from tha last post but crappy res'.... (shows nice orange to yellow with age colour contrast though, in natural setting). I'll post the pic without cropping/ in better res' below when I've got uploads to spare.



{{Later edit... here's the full pic at gd res... it's big, though}}



--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...

Edited by suboriginal (05/30/04 05:16 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2748625 -

nice nice


--------------------
Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2749185 -

Very nice exhibit showing the bluing in the species.
mj

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2756121 -

Latest spore print pics... I've only ever seen 'brown' in the aeruginosa prints I've made on white paper, but made a few on brown cardboard and foil as well this time, and the purple colour was easy to see on the foil... That last pic is my latest quirky little subcreation... but IS 'shroom hunting' related though !! (chuckle)








Edited by suboriginal (06/08/04 05:31 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2759497 -

i got some pics of some gill edge cystidia from my recent find. and maybe a free basidium too.
im out of my depth and dont really know what im on about so give it a geezer


and this from an different patch


Edited by ferret (06/03/04 04:15 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ferret]
    #2759819 -

Great pics !! All at 1000x mag yeah ?


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ferret]
    #2762424 -

nice fex - lageniform cystidia and 2 spored basidia??


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2764749 -

pretty sure it was 4 spored basidia but could only get 2 in focus at once. as for cystidia , i dont know what im looking yet at, i gotta get into the library when exams are over.

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ferret]
    #2765574 -

those lumpy bowling pin shaped guys...


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2767469 -

i found this at www.entoloma.nl if anyones interested

CYSTIDIAL SHAPE
1. cylindrical 2. clavate 3. sphaeropedunculate 4. vesicular 5. fusiform (spindle-shaped) 6. lageniform (bottle-shaped) 7. utriform 8. lecithiform 9. tibiiform 10. moliniform 11. flexuous 12. mucronate) 13. rostrate 14. capitate 15. septate

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ferret]
    #2773923 -

nice - ill favourite that!


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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2781150 -

Here's a couple of microscopy pics of subaeruginosa mycelia that I cultured on potato/ sugar/ rice broth agar and snapped... the first is 40x mag, the 2nd is 100x mag... don't worry that the 'relative size' doesn't match this comparison, it's cause I substantially cropped the first one, so there's no direct size comparison between the two. That orange stuff in the second pic is the actual agar substrate...





This is mycelia cultured from the first 'completely natural' (not found in woodchips) subs I've found in Melbourne... the area has been protected for more than 50 years, so no logging there either to induce the 'wood-chip effect'... I got a couple of pics of the shrooms growing, but it was going on dark and they were in a really dark (shady) spot as it was, so the pics are pretty crap. I'll post 'em at this thread anyway, when I have upload space, but they're really pretty crap. Actually these more resembled the subs we used to find in Canberra, bigger and darker in colour than the Melbourne subs I've found thus far... could be due to lack of sun bleaching, or the substrate or there's an outside chance they are a different sub-strain (no pun intended) I spose'... I'm not sure.
Intreagued by the 'adnate/ adnexed' spore print colour difference observation recently posted re subs (thread called 'brown AND purple prints from subs' or sommat like that), I'm printing both adnate and adnexed forms on both paper and foil, (again from the same patch) and have marked which was which on the print... Stay tuned...
Here's a good diagram I found at the link supplied below incase anyone's interested, describing gill attachment types. There's some nice illustrations of each type at the site too, well worth a look...

GILL ATTACHMENT TYPES



1. Adnate
2. Free
3. Decurrent
4. Subdecurrent
5. Adnexed
6. Emarginate
7. Sinuate
8. "No specific name. It seems to me that some people call this adnexed, and others call it emarginate" (quoted from the site below,
where the diagram is from).

http://www.ilmyco.gen.chicago.il.us/Terms/adnat500.html

Edited by suboriginal (06/10/04 11:12 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #8363884 -

Went for a little hunt today, in suburban Melbourne. Found a whole bunch of these around some dead trees and in a real damp area, picked a few. They look familiar to some of the other Melbourne finds here but I'm not to sure. Could anyone with a little more experience Shroom wise help me out. There kind of a orangy, goldy red colour. Cheers.




Edited by eviloer (05/05/08 02:09 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: eviloer]
    #8363950 -

Stropharia Aurantiaca. Stop digging up old threads man. This thread is 4 years old. Make your own thread and request an ID.


--------------------


"Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music." - George Carlin

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Geelong [Re: suboriginal]
    #18321281 -

Anyone have any information about when shrooms will start to appear in geelong. also good stops. last season i found hundreds but only bark gardens

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Re: Geelong [Re: Motherfunkd]
    #18321316 -

Not good form to bump old threads (although i'll come back to read this thread later!).

The current thread is here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18128083/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/55


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Reference guide for Psilocybe subaeruginosa

Edited by obtuse (05/26/13 01:04 AM)

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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #25273635 -

IMG_0201.JPG
Hey guys are these good? Found a heap in my garden in northern vic

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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