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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: melbournio]
    #2710443 - 05/21/04 11:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Hi Melbournio...
1. They can last quite a few days after the last rain, as long as no parasites/ moulds/ bacteria get to them... I've seen them looking fine and healthy, though a bit dry and leathery, a week after the last rain... I should mention that these were the ACT subs, from the pine-forests... in truth it was 'mixed-growth' bush, some was ex-pine plantation restocked with eucalypt trees etc, so I'm not certain they were the ps australiana variant, but suspect so. The limited experience I've had with the Melbourne subs, I found a few little spots recently about 3 days after rain... (one or 2 pictured above)... I came back each day to see how they were coping without water, most did seem to start dying about 3 or 4 days later (again, about a week after the last rain), but that could have been because of desication or a bacterial infestation, hard to be sure. Then we got some light morning rain, and my little experiment was over ... but I was glad of the rain, for the farmers, you know...

2. A wise shroomer on here put me onto a post/ online text-book by John W. Allen, best source I've ever seen on Australian (and noo-zulland!) shrooms... breaks down distributions into states, and even regions within states... can't stress enough how much of a look this is worth, if you're interested in the local flora...
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/magic_mushrooms_aunz/magic_mushrooms_aunz.shtml

re the 'be all and end all' subaerugs/ Australiana are definately among the strongest psilocybes in the world...

3. They grow in the open, as well as under trees. It's more important what's under 'em, than over 'em... so to speak. I mean to say it's the substrate that counts. Untreated woodchips, re suburban Melbourne.

About the variation in photos, one thing I love about shrooms of all kinds is that they all look different/ individual, even within the same batch (especially subaerugs, it seems...) shrooms of identical species could also take on quite different colours/ visual characteristics etc depending on the substrate they're growing on (nutrients/ chemicals available, could depend on the source of the woodchips, soil composure etc) and how hydrated they are... and probably more subtle things can alter their colour/ appearance/ pattern of growth as well, like the symbiotic species that are around (both growing, and the actual species of the woodchips), the air quality/ pollution levels, microbial infestations, etc etc...
As you've discovered, the best source in existance for pics of Melbourne subs is this site, and the diversity in morphology is remarkable, which is probably why you remarked about it...

Lastly, if you go on a 'bush walk' around Melbourne, make sure you pack/ borrow a digital camera with lots of memory/ batteries... Take pics of ALL the local shrooms you come accross, any species, and post them at the shroomery somewhere where there's other pics of Melbourne species (here or Zebes' recent thread, for example) identifying them as from Melbourne. The diversity of shrooms that pop up in Melbs has not ceased to amaze me, always keen to see pics that others have taken of wierd and wonderful specimens snapped from around here... I'll attach a couple of great close-ups taken by a mate at my favourite haunt recently, with his very funky cam that seems to be able to focus from about 1cm upwards (way closer than the human eye can !!!)... 2 of the pics are from the same shot, crppod differently... the 3rd is a different shroom...
*Gotta love Melbourne, give me the 'city of parks' over the 'city of lights' anyday... ;-)*







--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2714186 - 05/22/04 10:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

asd


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2714341 - 05/22/04 11:59 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I reckon the only way to get to the bottom of it Blue, would be DNA analysis, in conjunction with seeing if the monokaryons from the various 'substrains' could interbreed to form fertile 'hybrids'... that could reveal once and for all whether or not they are truly 'all the same species', that jhave just undergone a bit of selective breeding due to different climates (and no doubt some 'genetic drift' as well), or whether it's justified to classify them as distinct species...
'STR's' (short tandem repeats) in the DNA sequence are what's used to identify specific people/ species (forensic evidence etc), and deduce phylogenetic trees... I'm eagerly awaiting the day some enthusiastic and well informed geneticist delves into the STR profile of the Australian Pscilobybes and can answer this question for us !!!


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2714353 - 05/22/04 12:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

PS, could you ask J.Allen what he thinks of this form of analysis/ how valid it would be in context ? I'd love to know, PM me if need be...


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2717562 - 05/23/04 07:42 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Some more shrooms from the local park in Melbourne, Australia... the first and possibly the second pic as well, are 'shaggy manes' a good eating shroom (non PA) I suspect, based on other pics I've seen on here... {{subsequent edit... got a reliable ID on the shag's from a friend based on actual specimens, ate some small/ young ones (cooked them almost straight after picking to avoid 'inky' conversion, as advised somewhere on this site) cooked in butter/ garlic/ salt and pepper... delicious !}}









Edited by suboriginal (05/25/04 07:53 AM)


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2718099 - 05/23/04 01:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

And this guy, from same park in Melbourne a few days ago... the whitest shroom I've ever come accross!



--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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OfflineHardicus
MR
Male
Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2721644 - 05/24/04 06:44 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Just thought i'd share todays finds with the shroomery, this is my first attempt at photographing mushrooms, so go easy :tongue: I'll get lots of practice in this season methinks :smile:

All my patches were mayhem today, more mushrooms than I could be bothered picking, but so many rotten ones that had to be thrown away :frown:

ok here are the pics :smile: All P.Subaeruginosa of course. :laugh:

Had a great haul today, but it was sad (but I guess also kinda comforting) to find that the majority of the mushrooms in the spots i visited (numbering in the hundreds) were rotten. About 50 of those I picked had to be discarded on closer inspection, but still made out with a big haul.

I took some photos, but as this was my first time photographing mushrooms they leave a bit to be desired, any tips are extremely welcome. Dialup users...sorry.



















Nice gills.


Galerina?


Enjoy.


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2721645 - 05/24/04 06:44 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Thought I would mention here that anyone else is welcome to add pics of their subby (or even non subby) finds of this season to this thread... someone called "Mothershabooboo" has suggested consolidating Melbourne finds into one thread, so they can be easilly browsed. Good idea, so add away guys, if you want to...
NICE PICS HARDICUS (above) btw, especially that one where they're all laid out on the paper, and the 'gills' cap-shot...


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


Edited by suboriginal (05/25/04 07:39 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2726543 - 05/25/04 06:34 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

True - and Chang and Mills did this in 1993 in their study of the subaeruginosa complex - only problem was that they didnt have conclusive specimens of Psilocybe eucalypta and tasmaniana - they did prove- and this was consolidated by Buchanan and Johnson in 1996 was that australiana and subaeruginosa are the same species.
Pluteus from this site is doing RNA/DNA analysis and isozyme protein analysis and cross compatibility tests and i assume he will publish these shortly.


--------------------


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2726608 - 05/25/04 07:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

GROUSE! You go Pluteus... I'm guessing the WHO is not funding this research ?!? chuckle... can someone let me know of any peer reviewed 'mycology specific' journals, if there are any ? There seems to be the odd thing in 'J Anal Toxicol.', 'J Nat Prod.','J Chromatogr B Analyt Technol Biomed Life Sci.', 'Forensic Sci Int.' etc. but these are all 'magic specific' articles, and my interests are wider... is there a peer reviewed myco' specific journal out there ?

PS. this is one article I'd like to get hold of:

"Phylogenetic relationship of psychoactive fungi based on the rRNA gene for a large subunit and their identification using the TaqMan assay." Maruyama T, Yokoyama K, Makino Y, Goda Y.
National Institute of Health Sciences, Tokyo, Japan.
... but I suspect it is in Japanese !!! I do know a translator though...

(ABSTRACT)
"Magic mushrooms" (MMs) are psychoactive fungi containing the and Psychotropics Control Law in Japan. Because there are many kinds of MMs and they are often sold even as dry powders in local markets, it is very difficult to identify the original species of the MMs by morphological observation. Therefore, we investigated the rRNA gene for a large subunit (LSU) of several MMs to classify them by a genetic approach. In this paper, we described the phylogeny of species of MMs based on the partial sequence (about 970 bp) of the LSU and the rapid identification of MMs using the TaqMan PCR assay.

Also I'd like to read/ get a translation of this one, which is definately in Japanese...

"Discrimination of psychoactive fungi (commonly called "magic mushrooms") based on the DNA sequence of the internal transcribed spacer region" [Article in Japanese]
Maruyama T, Shirota O, Kawahara N, Yokoyama K, Makino Y, Goda Y.
National Institute of Health Sciences: 1-18-1, Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan.
(ABSTRACT)
'Magic mushrooms' (MMs) are psychoactive fungi containing the hallucinogenic compounds, psilocin (1) and psilocybin (2). Since June 6, 2002, these fungi have been regulated by the Narcotics and Psychotropics Control Law in Japan. Because there are many kinds of MMs and they are sold even as dry powders in local markets, it is very difficult to identify the original species of the MMs by morphological observation. Therefore, we investigated the internal transcribed spacer (ITS) region in the ribosomal RNA gene of MMs obtained in Japanese markets to classify them by a genetic approach. Based on the size and nucleotide sequence of the ITS region amplified by PCR, tested MMs were classified into 6 groups. Furthermore, a comparison of the DNA sequences of the MMs with those of authentic samples or with those found in the databases (GenBank, EMBL and DDBJ) made it possible to identify the species of tested MMs. Analysis by LC revealed that psilocin (1) was contained at the highest level in Panaeolus cyanescens among the MMs, but was absent in the Amanita species.
(funny that they didn't already know that amanitas have no psilocin or derivatives thereof!...)

Finally, there's also a bit of worrying stuff in the literature about renal failure from psilocybes... if anyone has acccess to the 'full text' of any of these articles, I'd love it if you could EM me a word file or whatever...
Sorry for the long post...


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2731059 - 05/26/04 05:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Went to a great new spot in suburban Melbomurne today with a mate, found about 80 subs, nabbed about 40... many were 'old'/ rotting', a bit of a shame really that no one found them before this, but hey I guess they'll spawn new progeny... I'll attach a couple of pics from my cam, I have no 'upload space' left really though for today, so they're kinda crappy pics... Nice 'natural blue' stalks in pic 2 though... I'll post some way better one's at this entry from my mates (awesome) cam when I have more space... also got some good pics of 'look-alikes' (stroph's etc), I will also post those...  :smile:







--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


Edited by suboriginal (05/27/04 04:39 AM)


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OfflineSmiley_Riley
kinda newbie
Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 64
Last seen: 18 years, 13 days
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2731150 - 05/26/04 07:22 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

ay suboriginal...  sounds like what i did today....  there were heaps... some moludy, some dry, and heaps of littlies that i left for the next guy... :smile:


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Smiley_Riley]
    #2735379 - 05/27/04 04:59 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Can someone advise me as to the colour of their P.subaeruginosa spore-prints ? Mine are definitely brown, with no hint of purple at all, so it seems the P.subaerugs may be a bit atypical re the pcilocybes in this respect. Also, under the microscope (pics shown above in this thread) the spores definately seem brown. I have only made spore prints of aerugs from 3 locations, but I'm guessing everyone else finds this to be the case too ?
{{subsequent edit: prints on foil revealed the purple colour... could it be derived from some other particles released from the shroom?}}


Edited by suboriginal (06/07/04 02:54 PM)


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InvisibleHanky
wiffle bat.
Male User Gallery
Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2735405 - 05/27/04 05:33 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i have found that the spores of the subs i find are brown aswell,not purple by any stretch of the imagination.


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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Invisiblezebes
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 60
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc *DELETED* [Re: suboriginal]
    #2735558 - 05/27/04 07:59 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by zebes


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OfflineHardicus
MR
Male
Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: zebes]
    #2735607 - 05/27/04 08:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yeha I find that mine a much closer to brown than purple, maybe a hint of purple in there.


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Hardicus]
    #2736603 - 05/27/04 02:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Here's the first of many fantastic pics to come from yesterdays hunt (Melbourne P.subaeruginosas)... I'd post them quicker/ all at once but for the limitations applied at this site (not bagging the site, I understand limitations are required to make it all workable/ possible)... the shots look better than this, but it pains me to reduce them to below 200kb!!



--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2736637 - 05/27/04 02:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I do wonder why the whole 400kb limit can't be used for a single fantastic shot (in other words, why is there a 200 kb limit 'per file' imposed, why not just have a 4 hunnard k limit per day and leave the limitations there) though ?!? Maybe an admin' can advise me as to the reasoning behind this ...  :sun:


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


Edited by suboriginal (05/27/04 02:18 PM)


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2736884 - 05/27/04 03:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A better pic of some of the haul, from my mate's cam... again reduced to a sad fraction of the original rez', in order to post... note the diversity of morphology etc evident though...



--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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OfflineHardicus
MR
Male
Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 68
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2738563 - 05/27/04 10:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Wow very nice pics suboriginal, hope you don't mind but i'm gonna nab the first one to post somewhere else as an example of bluing for the noobies, i'll link to this thread :smile:


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