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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Melbourne Victoria Australia (many pics, subs/ spores etc)
    #2644395 - 05/06/04 07:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Greetings all, I?ve never posted here before so firstly a bit of feedback? Congratulations on a *fantastic* site/ set of forums. Takes me back to the good old days of my youth when a bunch of us used to hunt up P.aurig?s in the pine-forests on the outskirts of the ACT? Yep very informative site indeed, I love all the fungi pics, magic and otherwise, and the comments about chemical conversions etc (obviously posted by peeps with quite extensive knowledge in chemistry!). I?m also impressed with how responsible the advice supplied here re psychedelics is? ?Gung-ho amateurs? are quickly warned that they have the wrong attitude, which is important, and has probably led to a great many bad trips being avoided!
I have recently acquired a real interest in fungi, partly due to this site? did 6 months of botany at uni as part of a BSc, but they didn?t really go much into fungi that much in terms of particular species? I also finally got a digital camera that has ?macro? function, so I?ve been able to snap a few shrooms from my local park here in Melbourne (Australia). I?d be interested in guesses on species if anyone in the know wants to have a geeze at the pics attached? None are magic (possible exception #7a/ 7b{{*Subsequent edit; 7a and 7b are subs}}), I?m now kinda interested in ALL fungi, thought I?d try and take a short-cut re ID?ing some of the local shrooms, by posting a few pics here and seeing if anyone chimes in with ?oh that?s definitely (xyz)? etc? I will be tracking down more net ref?s/ comparing pictures etc (anyone know of a good ?phylogenetic tree? re shroom genus/ species on the web btw?) with the ones I see around, but any guesses at species would be appreciated (I understand they can only be guesses given a couple of specimens in a digital photo !)?
I also have a few questions about magic shrooms that I?m sure you guys can answer informatively. Hope they?re not too tedious/ someone can be bothered reading them!

1st, what is the truth of the matter re the common adage (wives tale?) ?1 tiny wee shroom is as potent as that same shroom when it grows big??? I suspect this is rubbish, because in Indonesia my guide whizzed of into the valley occasionally and came back with about 50 TINY shrooms (very fat stalks orangy/ gold tops, edge of cap still attached to stalk, looked like a little gold ball on a fat white stalk) which we would slowly consume? all up probably only 5 to 8g each, but a heap of mushies in total, cause they were tiny? had great experiences, nothing too heavy at all. On the other hand, in Thailand a lot of the shrooms we?d find growing up around the hotel where pretty big (2-3 inch) and 5 or 7 of those suckers was quite sufficient, and probably weighed in at about 5 ? 8g or so. Now these where a different species (a very ?white? shroom before picking, the blue bruising reaction thus v. striking, cap pulls away from stalk and flattens quickly/ early in fruiting stage), so maybe it?s not a fair comparison. That said the subs? we used to hunt in the ACT (Australia) also seemed to me fairly reliable re potency if you gaged it by approximate weight, not the number of actual mushies.
So I?ve never had much faith in that adage about a mushy being ?born? with all the potency it will ever have? thus I suspect weight can be a fairly reliable measure... Any thoughts appreciated?

2nd, In the ACT (Australia) we used to camp over night at the spot, gather up shrooms (subbies) while having a BBQ etc, break off the caps of some of the older flat ones and lay them out nearish the fire? and of the night we would cut them up and sprinkle them around up and down the valley? was this wise, or a waste of mushies ? I guess my real question is would the accelerated drying have destroyed the spores (shrooms were probably dried at around 45-50 degrees or so, under ?DNA melting? temp), and would it have been better to cut them up and spread them around fresh (ie when and where we found them) in our efforts to ensure future happy trails?? One other fella I?ve hunted with in ACT used to lob the bigger more mature mushies into a pretty loosely woven (roughly 3mm holes) bag, that he sort of swung around a bit as he searched? his theory was that while he was taking a fair few shrooms (possibly to the disappointment of others searching the area the next day), he was also spreading spores around, thus actually doing the shroomers a favour? I wondered if a wet mushy would actually RELEASE many spores at all, but didn?t have the heart to question him strongly on the issue? Another mate used to take a much simpler approach, before picking any mushie he would give it about 5 hard flicks to the top of the cap, his theory being that that would at least liberate a few spores from the cap, and these could ?help for next year??
As it happened whenever they were ?on? they were well and truly on, but I?ve always wondered to what extent that was cause we used to often sprinkle mushies around the place/ the string-bag method/ the cap flicking method, and to what extent it was natural (ie woulda happened anyway).
Any thoughts appreciated.

3rd, is the ?blue bruising reaction? an absolute indicator of the presence of the actual chemicals psilocin (forgive me the spelling chemists) or psilocybin ? What I mean is is one of those chemicals actually involved in the ?blue? colour change chemical reaction. Pictures 7a and 7b are shrooms from aforementioned park in Victoria (Australia). They resemble but do not seem to be the same species as the subs we used to find in the ACT (Australia). I might be being tricked because of the size of the shrooms (they?re all small/ early, the clusters in the pics stand about 3cm high), but my ?gut reaction? (no pun intended, I haven?t eaten any!) is that they are not subs, but this brings me back to the blue bruising reaction? the shrooms in pics #7a and 7b definitely bruise blue, though the cam did not capture this colour very well? off-right of shroom in pic #7b I?ve sprayed a colour using photo-shop or sommat that seems to come up on the screen the same actual colour as the reaction/ real life. I am also seeing the very thin line of almost black looking colouration at the very edge/ perimeter of the cap, that I remember fondly as a reliable indicator in the ACT subs.
Again, my main question here is whether the chemicals psilocin or psilocybin are REQUIRED for this blue-bruising effect, and if so are any non-psycho-active anologues of these chemicals known in fungi, that can still elicit the blue-bruising?
Any thoughts appreciated.


4th, any guesses on species re the shrooms in pics 7a and 7b ? They appear to have sprung up based on a bit of moisture followed by heat, but not got enough subsequent rain to keep growing (Melbourne still too dry !!); they were kind of drying out, even though they were just juveniles? I bagged less than 10% of what was there roots and all, for photographic purposes? they definitely bruise blue? hard to tell with no ?adults? around?
Any thoughts appreciated.


5th, relates to an earlier question about spores, what are the chances of getting any spores from a young (yet naturally dry) shroom ? My real question here is can/ do some mushies produce spores when triggered by an environmental cue NO MATTER HOW OLD / BIG/ MATURE the fruiting body is, or should I expect no spores to come of young/ stunted fruiting caps, no matter how carefully I dry them??
Any thoughts appreciated.

Hmm a large post, wonder if it will work? wonder how easy it is to upload pics? if I cannae upload them all at once I?ll get them all up over the next day or 3?
eagerly awaiting any thoughts,

SubOriginal

PS looks like upload limits may foil my plans, I'll post pics day by day as allowed... Melbourne Victoria Australia (many pics, subs/ spores etc)


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2651459 - 05/07/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Pics 7a and 7b... They are very strong as it turns out btw... 2 experienced trippers, 3 small shrooms each (<3 grams!), irises all but disappeared, they laughed all night/ gr8 time had by all...









Edited by suboriginal (06/02/04 10:39 AM)


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Offlinejimbu
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2652584 - 05/08/04 04:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

1. yes, especially in regards to woodloving mushrooms (eg. p. subaeruginosa)... the smaller mushrooms can be VERY potent, definitely more potent by weight than the more mature mushrooms.

2. apparently flicking the caps doesn't do much at all... when the veil breaks, the mushroom is going to drop spores, flicking the cap won't make much of a difference. just pick the mature ones with a broken veil and leave the juveniles.

3. not 100% sure what the blue bruising is from, though i think most people expect that it is the psilocin oxidising (so possibly mushrooms with lots of psilocin but not so much psilocybin will bruise alot more bluely than those with a greater ratio of psilocybin to psilocin)

4. looks like you have p. subaeruginosa there. try to break them off at the base of the stem rather than ripping chunks of mycelium out of the ground, this will be alot more beneficial to them growing in the future than flicking the caps.

5. get a freshie to make a spore print from :smile: note that a wild print will have plenty of contaminations so you'll either have to work from agar to colonise them or else just distribute the spores somewhere and hope they will grow from that. even easier, take a little prespawned mycelium from the spot you picked them, and transport it somewhere else.


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Anonymous

Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: jimbu]
    #2652700 - 05/08/04 07:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Offlinesuboriginal
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: ]
    #2652761 - 05/08/04 08:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks Jimbu, thought as much re species ID after the night was had, but must say they don't look exactly like the subs from ACT, though this may well be because they are kinda 'water starved' (essentially they seem to have been triggored by a couple of bursts of heavy rain, but are now all drying up and dying at small size cause of no follow-up rain).
... also, I now have newfound respect for the 'size may not matter so much' philosophy, based on your advice and the potency of these wee shrooms. To qualify, that was 3g (max) WET, and quite strong effects... subbies be warned! Just to reassure you, I only took a very small % of what was growing, and grabbed the whole culture only incase it helped with the photo ID... all caps where also dutifully dried on ste rilised paper ;-)


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2652996 - 05/08/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

More pics of local (non-active) mushies to come on this thread for possibble ID... there's millions in the park at the moment! I suspect these are Strophoria sp. (auratiaca?) but don't know... stand abomut 3 or 3.5cm high, but look like they could grow bigger if there was enough water around...
Any thoughts appreciated


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653014 - 05/08/04 12:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Stroph methinks... (auratiaca?)


--------------------
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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653081 - 05/08/04 12:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Methinks maybe Mycena sp. (cystidioza?) in this pic... old (top left) and young (bottom right)...
Very unsure about this ID, there's a lot of brown shrooms around !!!



--------------------
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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2653548 - 05/08/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

A bit beside the point but not entirely... the Melb museum is currently pretty awesome... free for kids (<12), students and health-CC holders, otherwise $6.00... there's quite a few 'stuffed' (plastic sprayed ?) shrooms there, amanitas etc named scientifically, could not spot a P for personally... but it was gr8, well worth the visit... the blue-whale skeleton that washed up beside the Gr8 Ocean Rd is also there, the 3D room is also guaranteed to captivate the kids (and some adults; seems they've got better at 3D lately...) goddamn fantastic !!!!


--------------------
Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2655900 - 05/09/04 07:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Here's a pic of the subs next to a pic of non-subs, ... both from the same place in Melbourne, growing a stone's-throw from each other... the non-subs in this pic might be Mycena sp, could be the same shrooms as the ones in the pic I posted earlier and guessed at Mycena sp, just a guess though would appreciate any suggestions...



Edited by suboriginal (06/07/04 01:49 PM)


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2655925 - 05/09/04 07:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Here's a pic from the museaum of Mebourne (Australia), one of their shroom exhibits... they supply the scientific name but no info about each... some species that peeps are quite interested in seem to have been carefully omitted, also... CENSORSHIP AT MUSEUM LEVEL !?! (chuckle...)

Also keen to get any thoughts on shroom in 2nd pic, simply called 5.jpg, again found in said woodchippy-location in Melbourne, stood about 2 inches high, no bruising colour, drops black spores...





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InvisibleMerkin
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2656040 - 05/09/04 09:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

nice find there man, like jimbu said, cut the shrooms from the bottom next time.!


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Merkin]
    #2656362 - 05/09/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ta Mez, yep I used to do just that with the (ACT) strain I was very familiar with, I just grabbed the entire culture of a few specimens this time as I was unsure of species/ thought it might help with a photo ID... also I only took a small fraction of what was there so I don't feel too bad!! Another thing I did as well as making spore-prints from the caps (just for fun) was microwave a couple of plant-pots full of peat-moss, 'flush' them briefly with room-temp newly opened bottled water then plunge in the 'root-stick' ... no joy yet, but no contamination yet either... here's hoping !!!


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2659303 - 05/10/04 01:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Here's some pics of the spores from the P.subaerugs above Incase anyone's interested. The 200x and 500x are while the spores are still on the print (paper)... the 1000x (oil immersion) lens didn't penetrate the paper well so I brushed a few onto the glass slide itself to get that shot. I'll also include another pic of the little guys that yielded these spores in this post... {curious subsequent edit; I reckon the 4th spore down strongly resembles a penguin, and I haven't even had any shrooms or the like for years... !!}





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Offlinesuboriginal
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2667176 - 05/12/04 04:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hi shroomers, here's a couple of pics of spore-prints from various shrooms from Melbourne, P. subaeruginosa is number 4 as indicated in pic... the subby made a great print, despite being apparently 'immature' (gills only just separated from stem, diameter about 1.8cm when caught, diameter didn't decrease much after drying, indicating not as much water content as a mature shroom) when picked, which surprised me... as I've postulated in other posts, I suspect a decade or so of hunting might just have 'selected' for genetic variants that can sporolate 'early'/ while still pretty juvenile... not a bad thing I suppose !! Pics are posted BIG to show detail... to view them full size you might have to right click on thumbnail and 'save target as' then open with your fave' image viewing program... they look OK when resized to fit the screen though...





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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2671101 - 05/12/04 11:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Some of those other shrooms are - as you point out - stropharia aurantiaca - a lepiota - a psathyrella??


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2700630 - 05/19/04 12:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a cute 'family' of non-PA shrooms I found and snapped in my fave' location in suburban Melbourne... Mycenas methinks, but I'm still on my L's ... kinda cool how 'old-man' shroom, pappa shroom and baby shroom are all in the same shot... you reckon Mycena sp. B-meanie...? Anyone ? I've also been trying to grow up mycelia from wild spore-prints of various species from there (magic or not), I'll attach a pic of possible mycelia culture from the P.subaerug's, growing on potato/ rice - broth/ sugar agar... darker stuff is undoubtedly some sorta' nasty contam' (it's from a wild caught shroom after all), but the whiter stuff looks promising though... I'll try subculturing with various methods ('pot-luck' picks/ series dilution (for isolated cultures) and 'streak plate'... Still loving this site... thanks for responses all... just so it's clear, the mycelia pic is NOT from the same species as the other pic in this post...





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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2701931 - 05/19/04 05:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

HJHV


Edited by bluemeanie (02/02/07 08:12 AM)


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Offlinemelbournio
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Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 5
Loc: Melb.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: suboriginal]
    #2702577 - 05/19/04 08:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a series of annoying newbie questions...
1. How long after rain will P.subs last?
2. Are there P.Australians around Melbs or is P.Subs the be-all and end-all of trippy shrooms?
3. Do they grow in the open as well as sheltered under trees (cause the most promising spot I know doesn't have much tree cover)

Lastly, there seems to be a bit of variation in the photos. For example, on zebes post (Melbourne find) the caps on older mushrooms are a bit flatter, and has lost its yellow-brown colour to make the whole shroom univerisally light grey. Was this just because the mushroom had dried out and lost it's colour?

these are probably the same questions asked in every newbie post, but the FAQs don't have all the answers- as it is all about the states and P.cubensis mostly.

Thanks


--------------------
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Because you can GET drugs!


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Melbourne Victoria Australia etc [Re: melbournio]
    #2704545 - 05/20/04 06:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ps australiana is the same mushroom as ps subaeruginosa - the only different is that is generally the wavycapped variant. They grow in shaded or wet pine bark mluch, wood debris and under pine trees but with less flushes on pine needles.
Suboriginal - im not sure what they are - could be mycena, coprinus or something like that - itneresting ones none the less..


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