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OfflineKitestormrising
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Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP!
    #26443201 - 01/20/20 01:49 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

Hey guys. OK so here is the deal. I am planning on building me a hybrid still air box that is fitting with a HEPA flow hood inside of it. Call it.. the best of both worlds. But wait.. theres more! I want to put 1 or 2 UV-C lights inside of the box.. just shining down on the work area. My first question is this. Does UV-C light harm and or kill spores, mycellium, or even mushrooms.. at all? OR.. would all of those things.. the spores, the Mycellium, and any mushrooms.. be A-OK? I say Mycellium and mushrooms too because I am ALSO intending to hang some UV-C lights inside my grow chamber.. which is probably gonna be of fairly decent size. Like.. 6 and a half feet wide, 4 feet deep, and almost 8 feet tall.. with shelves galore in it that would be holding those large sized aluminum trays. So like.. probably around 40 or so trays.. maybe more.. growing inside of the room I intend to build. I just wanted to make sure that some pretty bright UV-C lights hanging all over the place.. even if they only come on for about 15 minutes at a time every hour or two.. I just wanna make sure that they aren't gonna be killing or even just somehow harming any of my Mycellium and or mushrooms. So!.. what say you guys?


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~Donald Trump is the Antichrist that was prophecied to come in the book of Revelation~ (Not joking)


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26443223 - 01/20/20 02:03 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

I'm not trying to be rude but I only got through about half your post because IME SAB's are very efficient in their own. so any lights, ets are just unnecessary and/or counter productive ...

Ok not what your looking to hear but that's the fact of it... Did like 5 months of agar work and hardly had any plates contaminate while pouring petri's...which tells me the contamination I had on my culture plates was from things other than the air...

I think those UV lights would be bad for the mycelium though I'm not certain...I would just keep it simple man... you'll thank yourself later..


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26443240 - 01/20/20 02:16 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

Don't hybridize shit. Use a SAB or build a flow hood. They aren't interchangeable. Given the resources you are likely willing to use I'd vote flow hood. You will not regret it. SAB works but I'm not even sure I could continue this hobby at this scale if I was using one honestly.


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I'm a fungal white supremacist.


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Offlinetrubblesome
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Smartattack]
    #26443280 - 01/20/20 02:39 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

UV lights at the intensity they would need to be to do anything to kill contaminants would harm you as well.

just keep it simple. flow hoods and SABs work on similar principles but are at odds with each other. I'm not sure why or how you would combine the two.


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OfflineKitestormrising
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: trubblesome]
    #26443593 - 01/20/20 05:53 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

OK.. look guys I know OK? I get it. But I ONLY NEED TO KNOW.. will the UV-C harm/kill my MYCELLIUM AND OR MY MUSHROOMS? It isnt gonna be hurting me because I will be shielded. I ONLYYY need to know.. ONLY.. if it can or will harm the MYCELLIUM OR MUSHROOMS. That is ALL. Does anyone know this at all by chance? I am gonna be shielded.. no harm to me. Forget anything and everythinggg else. JUST need to know.. will it hurt or even kill my MYCELLIUM OR MUSHROOMS???


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~Donald Trump is the Antichrist that was prophecied to come in the book of Revelation~ (Not joking)


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26443603 - 01/20/20 05:58 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

Sorry but I think all anyone is going to tell you is that this is fail.

We see what you are trying to do here, it is fail.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Smartattack]
    #26443631 - 01/20/20 06:13 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

:whathesaid:

A Sab with a flowhood inside? Worst of both worlds.

Uv lights is extra icing on the noobcake. Wrong tool for the wrong job.


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #26443719 - 01/20/20 07:11 PM (4 years, 9 days ago)

Your good. I hear uv increase potancy too so best of three world's


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OfflineBarrel
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Bph]
    #26443835 - 01/20/20 08:24 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Please, take a step back and try to use logic.

A SAB works by keeping air out, and the air that's in it still. A flow hood works by pushing clean air in a straight line away from your work without anything disturbing the flow but your work. How would these work together?

UVGI sterilizes by denaturing the DNA of microorganisms. Mold and yeast, which are fungi, are a common fungi cultivation contaminant. Fungi have DNA. If you're trying to kill contaminant fungi, why wouldn't it kill your cultivated fungi?

You're using trays as a means to isolate groups of fungi. Isolation is one of the best ways to mitigate contamination and cross-contamination. Why would you put isolated groups of fungi into the same grow chamber?

40 trays take 40 times the effort of a single tray. Someone that's experienced in cultivating mushrooms would have a high success rate from experience, making 40 times the effort yield 40 times the results. Someone inexperienced in cultivating mushrooms relies heavily on luck to attain results when they don't study the work of those that are experienced. Why would you try to maximize the probability of failure?


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Barrel]
    #26443848 - 01/20/20 08:32 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

I feel like you got some good advise, UV Bad...

If you plan on fruiting in aluminium trays though make sure to line them with something. I have had mushrooms eat the trays I used.. There are some pictures in my profile of the aluminum trays and the mushrooms eventually consumed the metal.


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26444281 - 01/21/20 04:53 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

I don't think he really wants advice. I swear sometimes I think people go out of their way to make a post that's controversial just so they can. I don't waste my time giving advise to people who clearly don't want it and are possibly just trolling.


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OfflineKitestormrising
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Barrel]
    #26444397 - 01/21/20 07:31 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

the best advice i got from anyone is this one speaking about how uv can kill the mycellium. THANK YOU! TThats all i wanted to know. kudos to u dude. as far as a flow hood sab goes.. it would work because i would have exaust blowing the bad air out. so therefore.. all that COULD be in there.. is clean air everywhere. This person is the one i was waiting for. THANK U THANK U THANK U


--------------------
~Donald Trump is the Antichrist that was prophecied to come in the book of Revelation~ (Not joking)


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26444426 - 01/21/20 08:01 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Some ppl just gotta learn the hard way :shrug:  best of luck to ya though!

Faht


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Offlinetrubblesome
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26444451 - 01/21/20 08:36 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Kitestormrising said:
the best advice i got from anyone is this one speaking about how uv can kill the mycellium. THANK YOU! TThats all i wanted to know. kudos to u dude. as far as a flow hood sab goes.. it would work because i would have exaust blowing the bad air out.




I'm still not sure you're understanding. that's no longer a STILL air box. it's a vertical flow cabinet. They either have a perforated floor so that air can be drawn downward in to a plenum and back up to the top where it's forced through the HEPA filter again, or else it has an even, wide opening so that air flow is even and laminar. here

just blowing air through a hepa filter in to a still air box that has 2 holes for the air to move out of will create turbulent air and make anything that's on your hands or your tools swirl around in the air and land on the shit you're trying to keep clean. all anybody is saying is that it's a lot of extra time money and effort to achieve the same goal that something simpler would.


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: trubblesome]
    #26444456 - 01/21/20 08:43 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Where would we be without pioneers tho eh? People willing to turn their nose up at solid advice and march headfirst into assured failure. Love to see people try crazy shit at their own expense. Someone will learn something from this.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26444460 - 01/21/20 08:46 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

:horrified:


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OfflineMrBovineJoni
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26444495 - 01/21/20 09:17 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Where would we be without pioneers tho eh? People willing to turn their nose up at solid advice and march headfirst into assured failure. Love to see people try crazy shit at their own expense. Someone will learn something from this.




There is a big difference between pioneering and ignorance :laugh:

When one understands why the process/method X works and then tries to improve it based on evidence and some understanding it is good.

When someone(like OP here) asks for an advice for a very specific thing and most of what he wrote makes people question if he is a troll or genuinely misguided budding mycologist it can get difficult.

It is very clear he/she lacks basic understanding of why some things happen(or are done) certain way and wants to introduce relatively advanced changes and just completely ignores advice from people who  have years if not decades of experience over his own misinformed ideas(mixing of SAB and FH principles together gets mentioned at least once a week in this forum by someone new who thinks they know shit but that immediately shows they are complete beginners (or just wrong)).

It is not even clear what he/she wants to change with this "modification"? Will it improve sterile technique? Well a lot of people get it all done with just SABs (FH is kind of for larger scale and/or convenience) - however, there are use cases, where SAB is still preferred over FH.

If there are way more than acceptable contaminants from person's SAB work ..learn to improve the sterile work instead of adding FH and UV lights in a SAB which is wasteful at the best scenario and completely unusable in the worst.


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: MrBovineJoni]
    #26444600 - 01/21/20 10:29 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

So the advice you got about your special specific question is taken to your heart. But those who predict all the other fails, your like "nah, they just dicks"?

Should be some dope teks coming from this research.

:cheersyoufuck:


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: MrBovineJoni]
    #26444671 - 01/21/20 11:18 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Didn't Columbus think he was sailing to India?
Bon voyage, young explorer!


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OfflineMrBovineJoni
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26444811 - 01/21/20 12:50 PM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Didn't Columbus think he was sailing to India?
Bon voyage, young explorer!



yes, but he knew how boats/ships work and had many sea voyages before he rediscovered North America :laugh:


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: MrBovineJoni]
    #26446739 - 01/22/20 04:37 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

You could just goggle yes or no questions. If you don't want advice or opinions don't ask


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OfflineKitestormrising
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Bph]
    #26481225 - 02/11/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

OK so check this out guys. For one.. I am NOT at all knocking the sound advice I got from a lot of the people here. And no I am NOT a damn troll lol Look.. I am intending to build this project if I am able to pull funds together. Two things first here. To the person who said it would NOT be a SAB.. you are correct. Technically speaking.. it would no longer  be a SAB cause yes the air is constantly moving. And secondly.. knowing now that UV-C will harm the mushrooms and all that, and since it has been some time since I first made this post.. I have since revised my design. Yall dont need to be a dick about it ya know? I was just asking a question.
What I intend to do now is have the box, around 4 to 4 and a half foot wide, strong and thick plexiglass door that is roughly the full length of the box itself. It will have two arm length gloves that enter in.. and are bonded to.. the front plexi glass door. There will be a HEPA directly in the back facing me. From there, there will be 2 to 4 holes (probably 4) of presently unknown diamiter that will go on both sides of the front of the box.. shooting the dirty air out the front sides of the box. I wanna have two strong enough UV-C lights up top on their own switch (Switch will be outside the box of course). I will also have a couple of regular fleuroescents inside the box right next to the UV-C lights, also on their own switch. The box itself will be made of wood, however the inner box flooring will be a solid piece of stainless steel. There will be a UV proof blanket type shield that will be rolled up on the top area of the unit.

OK! I think that that just about explains my idea.

Ok so now.. imagine for a moment. You purchased some bags of rye berry with the injection port and filter on the bags, lets say for sake of argument that you bought these (Yes I know you can just do it yourself, it is JUST an example!).. and you have a total of 6 bags. You open the latched plexiglass door, and it is on a hinged setup, the large plexiglass door angles downward.. with the gloves hanging off of it, and you lower it all the way to insert your supplies. You insert all of your tools, blades, torch, unused pitre dishes, rubbing alcohol, paper towels, AND.. anything else you think you need.. and also dont forget.. your 6 bags of already ready to go pre-sterilized grain.
You put all this stuff in the box, and then once the door is sealed shut with its tight latching system.. you reach up top and roll down the UV blanket to shield yourself from the next coming step. Now that you are completely shielded.. you turn the switch on for the UV-C lighting, and keep it on for whatever time you designate. I would do it for a minimum of 20 minutes.
After the 20 minutes are up, I hit the UV light switch to turn off the UV lights. I roll the UV blanket back up to its proper spot where it is now out the way. Now.. all surfaces that were hit with the light.. which because of the power of the lights installed, and also cause of the giant shiny stainless steel plate on the bottom.. UV light is cast EVERYWHERE.. and because of that.. whatever was alive.. is now dead.
I now hit the switch for the fleuroescents to turn them on and illuminate the inside box. Last but not least.. I reach up top to turn on the HEPA flow hood that is in the inside of the very rear of the box. It is now blowing clean air towards me, and it is blowing any and all air that MIGHT be dirty (Since we already killed everything with the UV lights in the air and on whatever surfaces) out of the holes on the front sides of the box.

You/me/whoever is using this in this story.. can now slide your arms through the special chemical class gloves that fully extend up to the elbow, and can work in a sterile enviroment.

NOW.. to the haters!

Look guys.. I know ok? I know.
I know you look at me and my idea as a waste. But really.. I do not want ANYYY contam. And with the setup I am wanting to create.. this is an almost 100% sealed enviroment, quite possibly to become an ACTUAL 100% fully sealed enviroment. From that box into the grow area/mini room that I intend to build with it. Long story short.. I am willing to fork out the extra few bucks if they come my way (I am waiting on a big chek), and IF I can do it with the idea I just typed out for you.. it would be.. logically.. much MUCH MORE of a sterile enviroment to work in compared to a SAB or basic FH type setup. And no.. NO.. stuff would NOT be flying everywhere inside there lol I can't believe that was even said. That sounds retarded lol With of course the exception of the paper towels.. that you can easily just use something like a paperweight type thing or something so they wont fly around? Use your imagination.. shouldnt be THAT hard to figure out really now lol

So lastly..
Could I use just a SAB and be clean? Perhaps. But there is still a much larger chance of contam compared to my hybrid idea.. and even to the next step up from a SAB.. a HEPA flowhood.
Could I just use a Flowhood and work over a clean surface?
Sure I could.. and it is much much better than the SAB. HOWEVERRR.. it also.. is yet again.. NOT as good.. or anywhere as sterile of an enviroment as my hybrid idea. Example.. "Oh shit I got contams cause I didnt work everrrr so perfectly close enough to my flowhood". Or.. "Oh shit I got contams cause I didnt open my blades package towards the damn flowhood! Now I did all of this for nothing!".

I ask you all this one question.. WHY.. why take the risk of contams.. and putting in ALL that work.. when.. you don't have to?

Does my idea need some tweaking to be perfectly effeciante for what it is truly capable of doing? I am sure it does. Like I said prior.. I have already tweaked the idea of working UNDER the UV light, to where now I have the UV blanket that rolls down the front from the top of the box, and shields all the possible exposure inside while everything is sterilized from the lights. Now the idea is to use them as sort of a extra icing on the cake type thing.. aka..  or a type of precursor to the HEPA flowhood that you would be working in to add that extra level of sterility.

Do any of you understand where I am coming from now?
Pleaseee tell me someone gets where I am coming from.

~Kitestorm~


--------------------
~Donald Trump is the Antichrist that was prophecied to come in the book of Revelation~ (Not joking)


Edited by Kitestormrising (02/11/20 11:43 PM)


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26481233 - 02/11/20 11:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So have you mastered doing things the standard way before going off on some random adventure into the realm of complexity?

I realize that there are a lot of pictures of contamination on this forum. There is also a lot of people doing shit terribly. You have to realize that many of us do work with relatively simple setups and get contamination at ~1% of the time.

If losing one petri for every hundred drives you over the edge then this may be the wrong hobby.

Look, just go ahead and do it, then show us the supremacy. Until then ideas like this will take a beating.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26481244 - 02/11/20 11:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:popcorn:

Quote:

Kitestormrising said:
sounds retarded




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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: mushboy]
    #26481249 - 02/11/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
:popcorn:

Quote:

Kitestormrising said:
sounds retarded







:hahathatsfunny:


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OfflineKitestormrising
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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Smartattack]
    #26481251 - 02/12/20 12:00 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
So have you mastered doing things the standard way before going off on some random adventure into the realm of complexity?

I realize that there are a lot of pictures of contamination on this forum. There is also a lot of people doing shit terribly. You have to realize that many of us do work with relatively simple setups and get contamination at ~1% of the time.

If losing one petri for every hundred drives you over the edge then this may be the wrong hobby.

Look, just go ahead and do it, then show us the supremacy. Until then ideas like this will take a beating.







Very very true. It shall take a beating. But think on this.. how many times in history.. involving many many different type subjects of inventions and discoveries.. did people get knocked left and right for their idea(s)? If it can be done, if this big check would hurry the frik up from my attorneys lol.. then I wanna do it. And.. IF.. I pull it off.. I also intend to show yall the pictures of everything of course, and also I would like to have a comparison of some sort. Like.. how it compares to a FH or SAB as far as contamination goes. Like.. how much better does it do compared to those routes?

To me.. I look at your typical flow hood setup and I see ALL KINDSSS of flaws in the idea. And of course.. even more in the SAB route. But I thought.. why not combine the two? So that way.. for one.. you wouldn't be required to be working ever so perfectlyyy close to the flowhood, everything IN the box.. would be clean.
And then.. with the UV-C lights that you could safely run beforehand to sterilize everything inside.. literally everything that light touches.. including the very air itself.. you wouldn't have much to worry on your surfaces. Especially when you will have these powerful ass lights on for AT LEAST 20 minutes beforehand.. but could easily do longer. And then I am sure you would STILL be using the alcohol on your tools and such anyways. Which.. by the way.. and again.. the box would completely sealed from the outside world. Then.. it would go through a stage of sterilization of the air and surfaces from UV-C radiation, then the box STAYSSS closed as you get to work on.. EVERYTHINGNGG inside the box.. not having to be ever so perfectly close to the flowhood. You wouldnt because..ALL the air inside.. ISSSSS the air from the flowhood!

I dunno man.. I wanna try this out and see how it work. Worst comes to worst.. I can pass this info down to other newcomers like myself and explain to them why it didnt actually turn out great. But I say for myself anyways.. I think it is pretty badass of an idea :smile:

I hail from a long family line of inventors actually. We looked up our very extended family tree years back, and we come from a longggg line of inventors. Me and my dad have invented tons of stuff!
Do you know those computer CPU fans that have the CPU block, then two heatpipes that cross upwards in a DNA strain type style, and then they go up to a point where there is a horizontal grid of heat dissipating aluminum fins, and there is 2 case fans.. one on either side of the fins. One pushes air while the other pulls air out.. have you ever seen that?
I invented that :smile: However.. someone beat me to the patent. So even thought I DID design it manyyy a year ago.. I didn't get it to patent in time. And.. last I checked.. as far as computer CPU heatsink and fan setups go.. that one is either the top of the line, or one of the top of the line. Remember though.. I made that back when liquid cooling was JUSTTTT starting to make its rounds. This is like 15 or so years ago. But yea.. come from a long long line of inventors in my family tree.
I get the idea.. I wanna see if I can.. for one.. do it right and make it look pretty. THEN.. if it works even better than an SAB or FH.. then I can make a youtube video of it.. post it on here and other places, and have one of them up for sale on eBay maybe and see if anyone wants to buy one of them. And.. if they do.. I build one from scratch to order for them and try to make some cash :smile:
Just a thought. Why not ya know?


--------------------
~Donald Trump is the Antichrist that was prophecied to come in the book of Revelation~ (Not joking)


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InvisibleMr Solo Dolo


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Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26481274 - 02/12/20 12:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it would be a new idea.. it's been done in several different ways with laminar flow cabinets..
It more than likely will work if done correctly.. just not necessary and alot of extra work IMO..

I'd love to see how it goes tho
:popcorn:


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM Flag
Re: Bunch ~O~ Random Questions HELP! [Re: Kitestormrising]
    #26481278 - 02/12/20 12:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

How about some uv lights on the backside thay stay running to prefilter the air in the intake?

You know that you will still get contamination right evwn though you took all these extea steps you will have to then open it up to add your spores unless you already have them in and just blocked from the UV(they cant be exposed to UV.
Even then lets say you already have then in and blocked from the UV closed up tight in the foil. You then have to use them and no spore print is sterile. Obviously. But also no spore print is 100% clean. Thats why contam rate success rates can never be 100% because your innoculant will never be completely clean.
So the dream of NO contamination is squashed right there.

Then I have a question for you why not leave the flow on while the UV light are running then just turn the UV lights off and roll ip the blanket before starting whats the point of having it off until yoh start working?

Im with you though lets take this expensive dream of not having to wipe stuff with alcohol first and still have a good success rate a a reality.
Thats the point right with the UV lights you wont have to wipe with alcohol anymore.(I know this step isnt actually necessary and some dont wipe at all.)

Idk man im with you and would like to see it built but I think I just talked myself out of it. I feel like why add rhe extra steps and reatrictions to you're flowhood when its already plenty efficient.
I really want to see the finished product though dont let the haters talk you out of it.

Edit: im not even going to try to fix all my grammatical errors on this damn phone lets all just pretend that they arent there.


Edited by gizmo1 (02/12/20 12:48 AM)


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