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r00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: What if everything's just always existed, and doesn't require AI, creation, big bang, or any theory rooted in causal determinism at all?
Nothing works that way. Try to manifest such a thing in your currently reality/universe... You have to put in effort and work. For anything sufficiently complex, there is lots of work, structure, knowledge, etc.
As below so above. The truth is right in front of your eyes daily. Test out your theory/thoughts of abstraction and see if it manifests to reality. If it doesn't, you're wrong.
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laughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Quote:
r00tcmplx said:
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So, you're making comments about biology and meat (human beings) being shitty and parasitic not a technology which you have no capability of knowing right now. ...
You have little interest in a technology that is currently and is going to reshape the world? OK...
"So, you're making comments about biology and meat (human beings) being shitty and parasitic " --- absolutely not.
...If you [& RGV] think parasitic diseases, and insects eating and mind controlling others are beautiful, I would bet you would find almost no one suffering from such fates that would agree with you. ....Nature / evolution is full of such examples. No need to study biology, just need enough curiosity & IQ to use Youtube, these horrors are no secret, even that much effort is not necessary - whenever ebola is in the news, or if you visit a friend with aids, it stares one in the face.
Making claims about my values & moral judgements of others is a straw man argument to avoid admitting: (1) that the theory of evolution is doing fine, in spite of the effects of sexual selection & the new knowledge re horizontal gene transfer in some cases, and (2) that the idea that 'nature' has [as RGV says] "no other value except to express beauty" is so airy fairy it would make even Disney studios blush.
It is one thing to spout such nonsense, but even funnier when some one seriously defends it.
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"You have little interest in a technology that is currently and is going to reshape the world? OK..."
...You do not know that this is the case. You are not an expert in this field, and even the so called experts don't agree, if it will even happen. And many would agree there are many more problems currently that are much more likely, about to have dire consequences.
...I have some interest, but not enough, to worry about it in isolation. Long before robotics and/or computers become conscious or "the singularity" occurs, more modern, & more widespread automation, will have devastating economic consequences, as DividedQuantum has pointed out before. This however does not excite folks imaginations as much.
But consider the reverse, some might find this more fun?:
The more predictable a person is the more robotic they are. Generally the more people grow up, the more seriously they take themselves, etc. Silliness is perhaps less predictable than the serious need, to be taken seriously, to be always right, and the person getting the most attention in the room. And we already have such a guy in the white house. So "AI" is already in charge.** In any case, they may also be observed elsewhere, from time to time.
** But who knows? This may be too silly for you to take seriously? Or too serious, for you to really enjoy the silliness, ever?
Oh well...
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r00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
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Quote:
laughingdog said: Muh comments about biology...
So, basically, I should throw your comments about biology in the trash because you weren't ultimately trying to say anything intelligible.. OK, that solves that. RGV was commenting about a progression towards AI, I don't see anything you said to be of any value in rebuttal or extended discussion. ...
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laughingdog said: You have little interest in a technology that is currently and is going to reshape the world? OK...
This is what you stated btw explicitly.
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laughingdog said: ...You do not know that this is the case. You are not an expert in this field, and even the so called experts don't agree, if it will even happen.
You don't know who I am or what I know. However, you just stated you have zero interest in this technology so by your own declaration, your opinion on the matter is worthless and uninformed.
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laughingdog said: And many would agree there are many more problems currently that are much more likely, about to have dire consequences.
Unsupported doom and gloom based on no understanding or interest... Gotcha
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laughingdog said: ...I have some interest, but not enough, to worry about it in isolation. Long before robotics and/or computers become conscious or "the singularity" occurs, more modern, & more widespread automation, will have devastating economic consequences, as DividedQuantum has pointed out before. This however does not excite folks imaginations as much.
Now you have 'some interest' and when you think of interest you jump to worry/unspported doom and gloom. So basically, lacking understanding you retreat to primitive unsupported emotions.. Interesting how the human brain works.
Quote:
laughingdog said: The more predictable a person is the more robotic they are. Generally the more people grow up, the more seriously they take themselves, etc. Silliness is perhaps less predictable than the serious need, to be taken seriously, to be always right, and the person getting the most attention in the room. And we already have such a guy in the white house. So "AI" is already in charge.** In any case, they may also be observed elsewhere, from time to time.
The mind of an average person with no understanding or interest in the things that shape the world.. interesting.
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laughingdog said: ** But who knows? This may be too silly for you to take seriously? Or too serious, for you to really enjoy the silliness, ever? Oh well...
Clearly by your own declaration you don't know and I have found it interesting up until the point that I understood it how the human mind when it has no understanding and doesn't know reverts back to illogical/primitive/emotional sillyness and starts projecting 'authority fallacies' around about "experts" that its least knowing/aware of. When's the last time you read any of these experts papers? What are they experts in? Are the experts really just bullshit artist? You don't know. You don't even know you don't know so you fill the air with nonsense instead of being quiet and learning/understanding.
It would seem we are at a time in history where humanity and the world need to grow beyond such people and technology seemingly will help allow for that to happen. To remain in the belly of self-willed ignorance and suffering is far more scary a proposal.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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I do not find parasitic disease beautiful, but insects very much so.
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laughingdog
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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under a microscope, and in deconstruction to subunits, viruses and infectious life are beautiful, also as part of the circle of life and death.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
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Loc: Space-time
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Post deleted by hTx
Reason for deletion: Meh
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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laughingdog
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Re: AI musings [Re: hTx]
#26419677 - 01/06/20 05:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
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laughingdog
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: under a microscope, and in deconstruction to subunits, viruses and infectious life are beautiful, also as part of the circle of life and death.
as 'there is no accounting for taste' & 'beauty is the eye of the beholder'
it may indeed be so.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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laughingdog
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laughingdog
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KookaburraMan
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Registered: 12/12/19
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Interesting points brought up in this thread.
Musing over the possibility (maybe probability) of a greater intelligence creating us, and then we create AI, and AI creates something, and having this crude timeline extend infinitely left and right reminds me of people's early conceptions of a "spectrum" when talking about autism or gender. But as we continue to study, observe, record, and experiment and postulate/theorize/argue, our understanding of autism or gender stretches beyond a two dimensional line.
What would it be like to conceptualize AI and other intelligences in a three dimensional graph? fourth dimension? nth dimension? Negative 501 dimension?
I suppose if AI made us, and we make AI, was there ever a beginning to this chain? Will there ever be an end?
I will never understand my lack of understanding when it comes to infinity/infinities. But this topic is interesting none-the-less!
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laughingdog
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"I suppose if AI made us, and we make AI, was there ever a beginning to this chain? Will there ever be an end? "
What came first the chicken or the egg? The egg. Dinosaurs laid eggs.
Edited by laughingdog (01/12/20 06:18 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Ozymandias thought that what he built was all encompassing. AI is incomplete in the same way. How we use it to make better life and art is important. That we can use it will be empowering, but if it is restricted - power struggles will follow.
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laughingdog
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"That we can use it will be empowering, but if it is restricted - power struggles will follow."
sounds like an iching type answer, you've got the art of ambiguous prediction down pat.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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for now, AI is not one thing, and power also is not one thing.
but whatever AI is, as far as it is a resource, AI will have to be shared and fairly dispensed, because when we understand it, we will not want to be shortchanged by whatever powers control it.
is that an ambiguous prediction??? I think it is more of an observation applied to things I have already experienced. from my observation I see a relationship.
At the moment several resources are threatened and we are already upinarms about them (i.e. these are subjects in policies and politics) eg. environment, climate change, education, healthcare, housing, human-rights. I think AI fits among these, along with Genetic engineering, All forms of 3-d printing, and elective prosthetic enhancements.
the issues that are confounding focus are Xenophobia, Religious intolerance, Greed, War, and the backroom deals of the superrich.
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laughingdog
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What ever.
...In the odd event, that a connected sentient global AI happens, it will be dependent on the already over burdened, out dated, (with decaying infra structure), vulnerable to cyber war, power grid, that all of civilized society is. As well as on all the materials, mining, machinery, & so on that it takes to run civilization, ( & the power grid). In no sense will it be independent and be able to survive without humans, as in the silly terminator movies.
...IMHO climate change, and other factors are far more likely to radically change the world, for the worse, rather soon, in so far as our human world goes.
...As far as small isolated AI, that reads X-rays better than Doctors, for example, that will most likely advance, civilization, IMO.
...In any case it all seems to be pure speculation. There are many wild cards. Perhaps CRISPR is even more interesting. ...Also privacy continues to be eroded, with more bulk data collection, more security cameras, facial recognition systems, and probably in the not too distant future DNA files on everyone, taken at the time of birth. ...China has recently been taking steps in terms of increased monitoring, as reported by Edward Snowden and others. How this will effect society, is anybodies guess, but it doesn't seem likely to be all positive.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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CRISPER + AI + BRAINTERFACE = SELF EVOLVING INHUMANS
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laughingdog
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maybe so
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