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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) 1
#26437511 - 01/16/20 09:05 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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There are lots of grain teks out there, and even a few on making grain bags, but I do things a little different and it took me a couple years to work out all (most) of the kinks.
Things you will need for this tek:
- A big ass pot for boiling water, or a burly container to soak grain in if you dont mind waiting overnight, (Preferably something with a spigot to drain the water) - Polypropylene mushroom bags, with 0.2 or 0.5 micron filters - Grain :I use this tek for wheat, rye or oats. I personally prefer wheat or rye and I’ll tell you why later. - a large strainer, Cheapest way IME is a paint strainer in a 5 gallon bucket with the bottom cut off or a bunch of holes. Lately I’ve really been digging this thing
 -a large beach towel or cloth tarp
Optional but highly recommended-
-AA941 pressure cooker, i know theyre expensive AF, but if your time is valuable they’re worth the $$! -4qt sauce pan for a scoop -rolling cart strong enough to move AA or the big ass pot. -fan to help speed up drying outsides of grain(especially important if you use oats) - furrowing hoe or rake for spreading out grain - scale that can do up to 50 lbs (doesnt have to be perfect, ballpark is fine)
STEP 1:
Prep the grain, you have many options here, I mainly do grain prep based on the way the grain feels and looks so all times are approximate.
37.5 lbs of grain makes about 55-65lbs prepped properly (~45-55% hydration) this fills 1 AA941 With 16 bags packed the way I will describe later. If you are using a different PC you’ll have to figure out the math for yourself. (6 x 4lb bags or 8x3.3 lb bags per 21-23qt pc)
Fast method: 15 minute boil and drain, This is my least favorite method, but it totally works, make sure you cut the heat before the grain is fully hydrated, because by the time youre done draining the rest will be overcooked, and with the pile of grain you’ll be making it will even continue to cook for a while after that
Medium: boil water, add grain, shut iff heat and soak 1.5-2 hrs, this is my favorite method, you get very minimal burst grains and you can still prep and cook the same day
Slow method: if you don’t have a big enough pot, add hot tap to grain and soak overnight or 8-12 hrs (It helps if you turn up the heat on your water heater.)
As you drain the grain dump it onto the beach towel or tarp and spread it out after you’ve dumped the last load (I drain in batches)

If you increase the amount of surface area it will dry faster (thats why I like the furrowing hoe)
Put a fan on it for a few hours if it got overcooked, if you are using oats make sure to stir regularly and make 100% sure theyre dry on the outside or you’ll regret it later when theres condensation pooling and myc is stalling in the puddles)
STEP 2:
After you’ve decided its sufficiently dried or after its cooled, load into bags, I like just under 4qts per bag, this usually comes out from 3.75-4.25lbs
Wait to fold or seal the bags until the last one, that way if theres a little extra or not enough for the last bag you can even them all out.
I accordion fold all of my bags, that looks like this: First I line up the pleats and squeeze out all the air,

Then fold it so the filter is against the rest if the bag, and fold once more:


Flip it over and keep going, stack them up till you’re done

Once you’re done its time to load the PC.
STEP 3:
Ok so this is really the trick here, gotta load the bags perfectly or they wont fit, if you put them too tight then it will make a plug and all the water can get forced out of the top of your pc, boiling water geysers are no fun, trust me I’ve done it.
First layer in a triangle like this with the accordion fold on top, this leaves a “reservoir” space for the water to stay in:

This is how I put the first bags,

At this point I add enough water to come about 3/4 of the way up the bottom layer of bags
Next layer like this:

And two tucked in sideways, that will Also be partway on the next level

Keep going in the same fashion till you get to the top, there should be 9 bags in a grid across the center and 2 bags on each side. Top layer should look something like this:

If you’re bags are closer to 3.75 you can cram one more in but at 4lbs thats not happening, its the same amount of grain either way 
its gonna look like you can’t get the lid on, but dont worry,

Make sure the bags are all tucked in around the sides to make sure there isnt a tiny piece of plastic preventing a perfect seal, throw some weight into it and pinch the edges to get that bad boy on there.
STEP 4:
PC 3 hours at 15 psi. Make sure to vent for 5-10 minutes at least.
Cut heat,
If using presto’s or another thin walled PC make sure to step the heat down, or wrap them in a blanket to be sure they don’t cool off too fast, this is when bags pop.
STEP 5:

Once cool they should shrink-seal and be fine to store on the shelf for a couple days, if you Dont plan on using them promptly you might want to experiment with pre-sealing before PC
inoculate with a nice clean grain master or LC. I usually do 1 jar to 3 bags which is about 1:12. I mix millet with rye for masters so get lots of inoculation points and bags finish colonizing in about a week. Millet is a bit harder to hydrate IME but I’ve found if the rye is slightly overdone it evens out in PC

Bags made using these methods:


Results

STEP 6:

Edited by AyePlus (03/01/20 03:55 PM)
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26437541 - 01/16/20 09:26 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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I support bag use.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: filthyknees]
#26438157 - 01/17/20 09:27 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,219
Last seen: 2 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: eatyualive]
#26438533 - 01/17/20 12:48 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is so rad. I'm so fascinated grain prep. Excellent write up.
I've been using winter wheat berries and putting them on the stovetop with hot tap water - 14 minutes to boil, 25 minutes boiling, drain, then in the bag without drying.(neat benefit is they go in the PC piping hot) They are at 48% content, (when considering dry berry water content) And they come out of my presto 23 nearly bone dry. I keep upping the boiling time to see when they become too wet... but they continue to be dry. 10 days to colonization from a squirt of LI. Makes me wonder about drying and if it's needed with wheat.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
Edited by tedoro (01/17/20 12:50 PM)
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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: tedoro]
#26438651 - 01/17/20 01:58 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not as implrtant as for oats thats for sure, but it can still help with condensation later on, and I'm usually laying them out on the towel with the strainer still dripping since its so full. The whole process takes me about 6 hours with the medium speed method but I usually prep the grain the night before and dont load bags until the next evening because my house really heats up with all that cooking and I dont want the neighbors to hear the PC rocking through my open windows.
There are definitely ways to speed things up, but with the 941 you’re already more than doubling your time prductivity so I dont try to cycle multiple runs in a day or anything like that, and I dont mind watching a movie while grain soaks if there isnt any agar work or cleaning to do.
Another perk of the medium speed method is you dont have to stir so you can use less water and more grain (fill er all the way to the top), no added heat from bottom so everything cooks evenly.
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piratez
Unflamable


Registered: 04/21/14
Posts: 209
Loc: i dont knoe
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26444223 - 01/21/20 03:04 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Any tips on presealing?
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,219
Last seen: 2 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: piratez]
#26444787 - 01/21/20 12:34 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
piratez said: Any tips on presealing?
I started a thread....
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26282176
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: tedoro]
#26511064 - 03/01/20 08:58 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don’t preseal I havent bought a sealer yet, still using zip ties for everything.
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Nobler Hino
a dojo and a forge?!


Registered: 08/29/15
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Deep Ellum
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26511071 - 03/01/20 09:04 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fuck yeah, thats maximizing PC space
--------------------
   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 33,587
Loc: where?
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: Nobler Hino]
#26511086 - 03/01/20 09:18 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool shit
Rated Aye +
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: AyePlus’ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: mushboy]
#26511633 - 03/01/20 03:54 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Special sneak preview lol
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Pinball24
Stranger


Registered: 05/17/17
Posts: 104
Last seen: 3 months, 18 hours
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26626711 - 04/25/20 09:43 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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thanks for the tek. i'll be trying this out soon
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TonyMushrana
is that a Trich again?



Registered: 03/12/19
Posts: 323
Loc: Mountainly Place
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: Pinball24]
#26626737 - 04/25/20 09:57 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank you, was very informative So you leave them to colonize without sealing, just pinched with this thing to hang clotches to dry?
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: TonyMushrana]
#26627837 - 04/25/20 06:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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No thats just me doing g2g with bags
I twist, fold and ziptie after inoculation
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TonyMushrana
is that a Trich again?



Registered: 03/12/19
Posts: 323
Loc: Mountainly Place
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26629056 - 04/26/20 07:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, thanks. Really want to jump over to bags, it is big overwhelming to run 140 jars....
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MrMong


Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 70
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26629119 - 04/26/20 08:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AyePlus said:
Optional but highly recommended-
-AA941 pressure cooker, i know theyre expensive AF, but if your time is valuable they’re worth the $$!
Slight noob here, recently I've been considering taking a hit on an all american pressure cooker because my second hand pressure cooker is leaky as fuck and only fits 3 jars. Can see it being a good investment long term as I can't see myself not growing in the future. But I've also been considering investing in a flow hood.
If you were in a similar position to me with amateur equipment, but wanting to increase production, would you go for a flow hood first or a kick ass pressure cooker like the AA?
-------------------- Flick and Nip
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: MrMong]
#26636730 - 04/29/20 12:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its a little more nuanced than that, you can get a new presto 23qt online for 80$ and do 10 jars at a tome and build a hood, but it depends on your workload and growing style. If you want to do bags a hood is essential unless you intend on using LC or LI, but at the same time, cooking bags in a presto is a hassle, although doable(you can fit 6 ~4lb bags or a couple more if you drop to 3.75) . Hard call to make, I ran prestos for a couple years and never want to go back. I have one i use for agar but thats it.
I will tell you that a presto can end up worthless real quick from misuse but an all american is damn near indestructible and will likely hold its value for decades
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MrMong


Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 70
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: AyePlus]
#26637147 - 04/29/20 04:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the info, that makes a of sense. I just saw those beautiful pics of the bags perfectly packed into that AA like a game of tetris and it made me jealous. I've come back down to reality and have my eye on a 23 quart presto which is much more reasonable considering my situation lol. May return to this tek one day cheers!
-------------------- Flick and Nip
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: MrMong]
#26674813 - 05/16/20 12:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Aye
When you load all these bags...at the end, when you cram them down with the lid I can only imagine this must compress the bottom bags and push the water level really high?
I'm asking cause I just used my AA 941 for the first time and it seems like the bags took on some amount of water during the PC cycle. I tried loading the AA again with newer bags and noticed by the time I was packing the last ones in, the water level had risen like halfway up the inside of the PC. This is with the initial water level going up about 3/4 of the way of the bottom bags...added after adding those first 3 bags like in your tek...
So even if you aren't initially seeing that water level rise, I would think when you push the top on the thing it must be causing the water level to rise. This doesn't affect your bags?
Some of my bags came out with a lot of popped/burst grains, but it seems like even more so than when I used to run my presto or mirro. One bag was just a big mush of exploded grains and starch...like a thick block of shit. It's possible my grain prep was too wet, but I prepare it no differently for bags and jars I do in the presto and it works, always works.
I got so excited about the AA I didn't reaelize there would be such a learning curve. I can push bags out of my presto like a factory but the AA has been a struggle so far. Need to figure this out. So with my presto I actually use a bottom rack under the trivet, so that the bags stay almost completely out of the water. I thought maybe about doing something similar on the AA but it will reduce efficiency.
Since you guys do this on the regular...hoping I can figure this out without reducing the PC space with another rack
Advice?
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: A+ Bag Tek, (AKA: how to cook a shitload of grain) [Re: sh4d0ws]
#26678975 - 05/18/20 01:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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bumpin it
prob gonna end up pming directly but hho well
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