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faoneus
Faoneus


Registered: 10/07/18
Posts: 15
Loc: FNQ, Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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I just wanna say language fucking sucks
#26437181 - 01/16/20 05:18 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Language can't describe shit. It can't describe consciousness and it can't describe experience.
Every time I have an experience (which I will do everything I can to avoid labeling or describing) any attempt at description, even me doing so unwittingly in my head, will dissolve it away. I'm sure you guys have experienced the same thing.
Edited by faoneus (01/16/20 05:19 PM)
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: faoneus]
#26437189 - 01/16/20 05:24 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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we all own our reality, I used to want to describe the experience to others but ultimately have found that the only thing I can offer is to help prepare for them to try it themselves.
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Korean Jesus



Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 554
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: 330ci] 2
#26437235 - 01/16/20 05:51 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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The problem isn't language, it's that the amount of information one can communicate through just audio will obviously pale in comparison to the total information present. Until we develop technology that enables us to communicate via other means, there is no way to know that your color "red" isn't my "green" or that you're not the only person on earth who feels some emotion that nobody else could understand.
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 344
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus]
#26437248 - 01/16/20 06:01 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I mean it's proven that we don't all see the same colors, I have a general understanding of colors but my cones are different than most peoples thus my perception of the world is entirely different, albeit normal to me. I think that the greatest thing psychedelics has offered is not the visuals themselves, but the perception that everything isn't quite as it seems and although I might have to ingest drugs to reach those states, the states attained on them are very much real. I don't think there's a need to explain the phenomena though, I think it will always be best for people to open their own mind because as you said, we can only express so much audibly and it's not just what you see, but what you feel as well. Kinda blending in with your thread on cross sensual experiences while under the influence of psychedelics
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 344
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus]
#26437272 - 01/16/20 06:14 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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there are studies showing that we're able to transmit messages to one another fairly accurately through telekenesis, I wonder if we could convey images of unexplainable things in the same fashion
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Korean Jesus



Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 554
Loc: United States
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: 330ci]
#26437278 - 01/16/20 06:23 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
330ci said: there are studies showing that we're able to transmit messages to one another fairly accurately through telekenesis, I wonder if we could convey images of unexplainable things in the same fashion
[citation needed]
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 344
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus]
#26437298 - 01/16/20 06:38 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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google is your friend, there was an early 1900s arctic or antarctic study where a scientist in I believe antarctica and some guy in new york sat down and transmitted messages to each other daily, with 80% success. there've been multiple studies that have mimicked the results since, I believe I've read some of the articles on this website. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-brain-brain-communication-no-longer-unthinkable-180954948/
https://www.iflscience.com/brain/direct-brain-brain-communication-used-humans/
A couple less conclusive links that popped up right away, i'm too tired to search a million keywords right now.
I don't know how they would do it but if we do have a way to transmit signals telepathically which it appears we do. We would just need to figure out how to amplify those senses.i'm not sure if it would have to be done chemically or physically with an electronic or magnetic device;but it could open up the possibility for complete thoughts, ideas or experiences to be transferred to another person.
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BabylonRuleDem
Dude... I'm so liQuiD



Registered: 06/15/12
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus]
#26437307 - 01/16/20 06:41 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Korean Jesus said:
Quote:
330ci said: there are studies showing that we're able to transmit messages to one another fairly accurately through telekenesis, I wonder if we could convey images of unexplainable things in the same fashion
[citation needed]
-------------------- When we all get strange, and we know it, but we're cool with it
Trade List(WIP)
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 344
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: BabylonRuleDem]
#26437311 - 01/16/20 06:44 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
BabylonRuleDem said:
Quote:
Korean Jesus said:
Quote:
330ci said: there are studies showing that we're able to transmit messages to one another fairly accurately through telekenesis, I wonder if we could convey images of unexplainable things in the same fashion
[citation needed]
straight dead lmfao
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330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
Posts: 344
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: 330ci] 1
#26437325 - 01/16/20 06:49 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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After thinking about it though I don't think language fucking sucks so much as people are fucking idiots though. The average vocabulary has been steadily shrinking for the past 50 years in the US which means people are to blame for the overall lack of communication and expression. We should start to utilize what we have before thinking we're capable of more intelligent forms of communication
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footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: 330ci] 1
#26437463 - 01/16/20 08:24 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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It's bananas picking lawn clippings off the stethoscope. It's a cat walking down a hallway. It's chromatic and aural fluidity and frequency that you transmit into your psyche to observe and dissect your perspective on the world and reconnect the synapses in your neural network to achieve an altered view.
It's fixing a car.
It doesn't fucking matter. And it means everything.
But language isn't the issue. It's the individual's interpretation and how they convey that meaning to others.
Sometimes you just have to have someone mix, with their hands and their eyes, two different kind of clay as opposed to trying to describe to them the density, texture, and hue of the resulting mixture that they'll throw to a pottery wheel. Sometimes you can give them coordinates, measurements, and procedure.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: faoneus]
#26437492 - 01/16/20 08:47 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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That's not the fault of language. That's just you lacking the skill in language or writing or speaking or whatever that is required to express what you want to. You're blaming language for you not having the skill in language that you want.
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faoneus
Faoneus


Registered: 10/07/18
Posts: 15
Loc: FNQ, Australia
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: nooneman]
#26437506 - 01/16/20 09:01 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I'm willing to admit that I don't possess infinite language skills. I'm no Terrence McKenna of the psychedelic experience - but even Terrence McKenna admits he falls short are describing certain things. How many people have listened to Terrence McKenna, then taken psychedelics and said "Wow, this is precisely as he described it. He painted a perfect picture in my head and this is entirely as I anticipated it." You may say this lack of true understanding is the fault of the listener, but only a bad writer blames their audience for not understanding. Regardless of skill, language lacks certain abilities - especially in bringing out a proper understanding of consciousness and experience. Even Shakespeare couldn't describe the color red to a blind person.
In my opinion, to assume any inherent limitations of language can be overcome with pure skill implies a certain level of hubris.
I'm not saying language is evil. Language is the greatest invention in all history. Being great, however, doesn't make it any less frustrating when it can't do what you want. Skill or not.
Edited by faoneus (01/16/20 09:37 PM)
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architect
inqusitive soul

Registered: 01/13/20
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Loc: states
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: footpath]
#26437512 - 01/16/20 09:06 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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agreed about the people fucking suck thing. however, recently ive gained a "new" prospective/lenses whatever. its unexplainable to me, and my inner circle.
how I presonally reconcile this new outlook/enlightenment mixed with me, (ego, my experiences, people close etc) is thinking that this is some sort of predetermined cosmic outcome for those that are lucky enough to experience psychedelics is suppose to be sherpa-ed by people like You and I.
I only add this because 2020 is the year of positivity for me! Arc
-------------------- What A Journey!
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dk-1
Registered: 06/04/18
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Last seen: 29 days, 7 hours
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: architect]
#26437526 - 01/16/20 09:17 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
330ci said: google is your friend, there was an early 1900s arctic or antarctic study where a scientist in I believe antarctica and some guy in new york sat down and transmitted messages to each other daily, with 80% success. there've been multiple studies that have mimicked the results since, I believe I've read some of the articles on this website. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-brain-brain-communication-no-longer-unthinkable-180954948/
https://www.iflscience.com/brain/direct-brain-brain-communication-used-humans/
A couple less conclusive links that popped up right away, i'm too tired to search a million keywords right now.
I don't know how they would do it but if we do have a way to transmit signals telepathically which it appears we do. We would just need to figure out how to amplify those senses.i'm not sure if it would have to be done chemically or physically with an electronic or magnetic device;but it could open up the possibility for complete thoughts, ideas or experiences to be transferred to another person.
Sure we can directly convey electrical/chemical impulses to other people, but does that constitute "communication"? I can't see it being any more effective than language because one person's interpretation might be completely different to someone else's, so it still relies on them having a shared concept of what the experience/object that they're trying to communicate is.
It would work with simple ideas like yes and no, hunger and thirst etc. Because they're so ingrained in our DNA that they're universal, but I think more abstract experiences will only be able to be conveyed through abstract means.
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jdawg333
Stranger
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: dk-1]
#26437539 - 01/16/20 09:25 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I think language is one of the trippiest, most beautiful things about being human/being alive. Almost more mindboggling than chemistry and atoms and energy and all of those ideas.
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faoneus
Faoneus


Registered: 10/07/18
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Loc: FNQ, Australia
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: jdawg333]
#26437561 - 01/16/20 09:45 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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This! The fact that humans have gained the power to create information and stories from sound and symbols is fucking magic. We even call it 'spelling,' for crying out loud!
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Vibe_Enthusiast
Mushroom Technician



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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: faoneus]
#26437872 - 01/17/20 05:56 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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Of course... But I wouldn't say it sucks..
I think it's one of the coolest things ever next to conciousness. The fact we can so easily communicate is the craziest thing. The part that always gets me is how language was developed over the thousands and thousands of years.
Making words having specific meaning and whatnot. Like, everything we call something is because some said we call it that. "Universe", "Space", "table".
Just trippy as fuck when you think about it. Because thats not what they REALLY are? But we call it that to identify it. Just fucking weird lol.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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at the most exciting parts, I want to tell everyone, but I cannot remember exactly what I am excited about
- this is not a language problem it is a memory failure and an awareness gap.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: faoneus]
#26438416 - 01/17/20 11:48 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
faoneus said: Language is the greatest invention in all history. Being great, however, doesn't make it any less frustrating when it can't do what you want. Skill or not.
I think that depends to a large extent on how you define “language” and how you define “invent”. Or are we only discussing “language” in the scope of “human language”?
Love and peace, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: footpath]
#26438554 - 01/17/20 12:57 PM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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http://savitrithepoem.com/b2c15.html
Quote:
footpath said: It's bananas picking lawn clippings off the stethoscope. It's a cat walking down a hallway. It's chromatic and aural fluidity and frequency that you transmit into your psyche to observe and dissect your perspective on the world and reconnect the synapses in your neural network to achieve an altered view.
It's fixing a car.
It doesn't fucking matter. And it means everything.
But language isn't the issue. It's the individual's interpretation and how they convey that meaning to others.
Sometimes you just have to have someone mix, with their hands and their eyes, two different kind of clay as opposed to trying to describe to them the density, texture, and hue of the resulting mixture that they'll throw to a pottery wheel. Sometimes you can give them coordinates, measurements, and procedure.
I knew I liked this, and it's you.
To the O.P., check out
Savtri by Sri Aurobindo (long as f.k, I recommend reading best first.)
And, Stevenson, (Book of Garden Verses Perhaps)
William Blake.
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Maylink
One with Gratitude



Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 320
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: AZZI] 1
#26440503 - 01/18/20 04:37 PM (4 years, 11 days ago) |
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Adding that we, and many external forces, have distorted language and the true meaning of words to a place beyond cohesive comprehension and communication. These are powerful tools and there needs to be a greater focus on understanding how to use them. Unless used effectively, no words can be a better approach.
Connection, truth, and the value of the human experience transcends language.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Maylink]
#26440575 - 01/18/20 05:34 PM (4 years, 11 days ago) |
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The question for me was always were the ineffable, earth shattering, revelations, truly what they appeared to be, or was their cosmic significance symptomatic of delusion. I’ve written things down and smuggled ideas and thoughts through customs occasionally, only for them to turn to ash when my sober mind could no longer decipher what the messages actually meant.
But I think there is a good chance that the messages were gibberish and my mind like a schizophrenics, was attaching cosmic significance to things that were essentially meaningless.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus] 1
#26441075 - 01/19/20 02:06 AM (4 years, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
faoneus said: This! The fact that humans have gained the power to create information and stories from sound and symbols is fucking magic. We even call it 'spelling,' for crying out loud!
This is the closest to accuracy you've come in this thread so far, OP. You might not even realize how true what you just said IS!
Quote:
Korean Jesus said: The problem isn't language, it's that the amount of information one can communicate through just audio will obviously pale in comparison to the total information present. Until we develop technology that enables us to communicate via other means, there is no way to know that your color "red" isn't my "green" or that you're not the only person on earth who feels some emotion that nobody else could understand.
This is it right here. The "my colors aren't yours thing" is hilarious because everyone thinks that way for a bit, usually during college, then forgets that that's probably the closest to a conscious view of genuine self-epistemology they'll ever get LOL.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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SizlChest
Padawan



Registered: 09/29/13
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Loc: Texas
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Korean Jesus]
#26441878 - 01/19/20 03:44 PM (4 years, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Korean Jesus said: The problem isn't language, it's that the amount of information one can communicate through just audio will obviously pale in comparison to the total information present. Until we develop technology that enables us to communicate via other means, there is no way to know that your color "red" isn't my "green" or that you're not the only person on earth who feels some emotion that nobody else could understand.
NeuraLink's wizard hat is coming.....likely after we are gone, haha
-------------------- PrimalSoup's Tea Tek
   "I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!" "Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once." "I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."
Edited by SizlChest (01/19/20 03:51 PM)
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Blabble40
Scorpio

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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: SizlChest]
#26441895 - 01/19/20 04:00 PM (4 years, 10 days ago) |
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I suspect time (spacetime) is the real perpetrator. If you are a moron saying “Oh! I think time doesn’t exist,” you’re dumb and we can tell, because Einstein unified time and space in 1905. It’s been spacetime ever since.
Yeah, I did all that shit in college. My university’s library had almost everything. Some books are worth buying than renting, though.
When I graduated recently, after working my ass off, I thought I’d have some fun.
One of the last papers I wrote in college was on dark (exotic) matter and dark energy. It was a review, but I ate an edible two days before it was due, which ruined some of it. I turned down a $30 bag of mushrooms in college once because I had to study et cetera and couldn’t risk any brain damage.
That’s why I tried higher doses of LSD after I graduated. First, I wrote a rhyming verse on it, because that’s what it does to me, with the weed, although it’s mostly the acid you need. Then, the weed brings out most of the trip (or anxiety). I could have swore that a lot of stories form long ago were, like, rhyming poems such as King Arthur romances. So I thought there was a connection.
With mushrooms, sometimes when I smoke weed on it, it goes away. I don’t think people realize how short lasting mushrooms are.
If you think breakthrough DMT is impossible to describe, or paint/draw, try putting a 300-400 mcg LSD trip in words. It isn’t impossible and this isn’t a challenge, but people are falling into the same positions I had predicted before I even did anything. I read Naked Lunch and the Crazy Wide Forever prior, and wanted to know more of what they were about, which is much more than rambling words.
I’m also tired of this fad: I’ll say I saw a UFO bleep into existence via synchronicity for a few seconds on LSD, then someone will say they can imagine it sober. But you can’t, they’re different. That’s just their way of making you feel less special.
So people who don’t trip think they can compete with thought processes and mental energy because they might be special. I said this before: Me: DMT showed me the most beautiful thing you could ever see. Them: But don’t you think girls and naked women are pretty? Me: Yes, sure, but there’s a conspiracy, and since I’m brown, every girl is racist and only likes white dudes, because it’s the “opposite”, so now, what’s the fuckin point?
Then, they initiate that ideology. You don’t need mushrooms or DMT because you can just stare at naked chicks all day.
Girls don’t care about looks. Most girls have the mindset of a lesbian. Why? They say if you were the last man on Earth, they still wouldn’t give you permission. With that mindset, they prefer looking at other girls than a guy’s body. What or who are they copying, and is it ethical?
You’d think it would be equal: Guy: girls are pretty Girl: guys are smart and strong, and women are the pretty ones.
So looks don’t matter? Girls like when there’s a connection, so through that, looks, sense of humor, and how much money you have don’t matter. Only “coincidences” and “synchronicity” that can make “natural jokes and connections” work.
Why does language suck now, when before it wasn’t a big deal?
Mushrooms used to make you go crazy, but now everyone wants some. What about LSD, then?
Edited by Blabble40 (01/19/20 04:08 PM)
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SizlChest
Padawan



Registered: 09/29/13
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Loc: Texas
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Blabble40]
#26441955 - 01/19/20 04:34 PM (4 years, 10 days ago) |
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-------------------- PrimalSoup's Tea Tek
   "I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!" "Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once." "I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."
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AZZI
Stranger

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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: SizlChest]
#26443057 - 01/20/20 12:01 PM (4 years, 9 days ago) |
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What was that all about?
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AZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26443060 - 01/20/20 12:04 PM (4 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
faoneus said: This! The fact that humans have gained the power to create information and stories from sound and symbols is fucking magic. We even call it 'spelling,' for crying out loud!
This is the closest to accuracy you've come in this thread so far, OP. You might not even realize how true what you just said IS!
If it werent for language, we would be less developed or sophisticated. No computers or airplanes would exist, at least not by us. Other animals have language as well.
The issue isn't language, it's imperfect language. Not just that, it's human nature. Infinite potential, is really the best way to summate it.
I.e. we can be mentats, angels, godz, or their opposite.
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Sir Pentinite
Stranger all the time.

Registered: 05/15/19
Posts: 525
Loc: ation Location Location
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Re: I just wanna say language fucking sucks [Re: AZZI]
#26444028 - 01/20/20 10:21 PM (4 years, 9 days ago) |
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A more pedestrian aspect to keep in mind is that human communication has not evolved in the widespread presence of psychedelics. Perhaps that is at least partly why language often fails to adequately describe the experience.
-------------------- "I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'" - Terrence McKenna
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