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DNA_Trip
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Injecting sterile water?
#26434585 - 01/15/20 09:39 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I believe my grains may be too dry, and that’s why they’re colonizing very slowly even after my shake and haven’t reached full colonization yet. Someone on here told me to try injecting 5 cc’s of sterile water and shaking again. Has anyone tried this and how were the results and your experiences? Or should I forget about the sterile water? Will they still eventually reach full colonization no matter what?
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 09:40 AM)
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BLINKfan420
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26434592 - 01/15/20 09:44 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Your grains need to be hydrated properly from the get go. Hence the bringing them to boil for 10 - 15 minutes and then letting them dry out for a bit until they pass the toilet paper test.
I'm not sure but I wouldn't think that injecting some sterile water into the jars would help in the same way that having the grains properly hydrated would. 
Let's see what some others say first.
BLiNK
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The Mycologist
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26434593 - 01/15/20 09:46 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I wouldnt do that. Its about internal grain moisture. If you followed a tek they are probably fine. You dont want to see visible moisture in your jars.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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TheStallionMang
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26434596 - 01/15/20 09:46 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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We need pics or at least more info to evaluate. From what I've seen, nobody makes their grains too dry and I've never heard of injecting water in so that sounds risky to me.
They will not reach full colonization no matter what though. Could be contams are stopping things but need pics or more info
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DNA_Trip
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They will reach full colonization at some point? Or will never?
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DNA_Trip
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I soaked my grains for 24 hours, and then boiled for 10 minutes and let the steam evaporate. It’s not my first rodeo. I just haven’t seen colonization this slow, but maybe I just need to be patient. I shook my jars one week ago, and it’s been one week since and they are still not fully colonized. Someone said my grains look to dry, and to inject some sterile water and reshake to redistribute moisture. Maybe nothing is wrong, who knows, and this is just taking a lot longer to colonize, but it’s been 2 weeks so far since I inoculated and one week since I shook.
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DNA_Trip
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I did everything you said as far as prepping my grain. I just don’t understand the slow colonization after one week since I shook it. I’m used to them already fully colonizing about 5 days after my shake. It’s been one week since I shook, two weeks since inoculation, and it’s still only 75% colonized. I keep thinking it might be stalling out on me, but when compared to a couple days ago it seems to have colonized a bit more. It’s just going so slow. Usually after I shake it’s only several days and they should be fully colonized. Do you think another shake would help?
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attednev
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26434751 - 01/15/20 11:48 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Dont add anything. I've had jars that looked waaay too dry still colonize. It just took longer.
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: attednev]
#26434953 - 01/15/20 01:27 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Dont inject anything else. Poor recovery after a shake is a good indicator that there may be some bacteria in there. Posting pics always helps.
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cronicr



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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: Here you, a picture of each of my 3 jars.

Quote:
cronicr said:
They look contaminated to me
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26434993 - 01/15/20 01:50 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
DNA_Trip said: Here you, a picture of each of my 3 jars.

Quote:
cronicr said:
They look contaminated to me
Nice catch Cron...
Also, sterile water isn't gonna fix a problem that looks like yeast to me.
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DNA_Trip
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Where is the yeast you guys keep saying??? Those are gypsum granules, not yeast. Yeast would have white granules on the grains themselves and also smell. I didn’t say there was poor recovery, it bounced back just fine, I was just expecting it to be fully colonized by now. I’m still well within the time frame also of colonization. Some just take longer than others based on different variables correct? I mean what yeast???
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 02:31 PM)
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435124 - 01/15/20 02:56 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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If I popped one open and took a whiff shouldn't it smell then if it's yeast?
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TheStallionMang
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435218 - 01/15/20 04:02 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Have you been leaving the foil on while it colonizes? Usually the foil is taken off and the micro-pore tape or poly-fill allows for gas exchange. Maybe they suffocated?
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cronicr



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Foil won't suffocate jars
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DNA_Trip
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Yeah foil doesn't do that, and has never been a problem for me. I think I'm going to try shaking again and see what happens. I'm debating whether I should pop one open and take a whiff....? If it's yeast (I don't see any signs people are saying) then it should smell bad correct?
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435247 - 01/15/20 04:11 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Correct, and that's never been a problem for me. Do you think I should re shake again? I'm also debating whether I should pop one open and give it a whiff...? If it's yeast like you guys think (I don't see how it can be, that is gypsum, not yeast granules) then it should smell bad correct?
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TheStallionMang
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435248 - 01/15/20 04:13 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Sometimes you can smell it thru the poly-fill or tape. Try that before popping it open
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DNA_Trip
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There are no smells coming through any of the poly. Would you be able to smell it through the poly for sure? I thought it needs to be opened? Or would you definitely smell a contamination through the poly?
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435281 - 01/15/20 04:26 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I've never shaken a jar more than once, but do you think a re shake could help with anything? Maybe it will colonize the rest I need?
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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435286 - 01/15/20 04:28 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Shake'em if you want but I'd get onto some new jars
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435305 - 01/15/20 04:41 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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These aren't salvageable in any way? Those little things are gypsum, there's no yeast granules on the grains.
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TheStallionMang
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435319 - 01/15/20 04:53 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: There are no smells coming through any of the poly. Would you be able to smell it through the poly for sure? I thought it needs to be opened? Or would you definitely smell a contamination through the poly?
You wouldn't smell it for sure buy you might. There could be contam and you wouldn't smell it thru the poly. Sorry, I know that isn't much help
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DNA_Trip
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I just have a feeling these aren’t contaminated, the mycelium is healthy and white, it’s only the rate of colonization and seems to not be getting there all the way that is bothering me. There must be something I can do. Any ideas? Should I shake again? Also I think that I’m just going to have to pop one of the lids off one of them and give it a whiff. It would definitely stink if contaminated. Any ideas on what you would do? Shake it again? Or just wait longer through the weekend? That would make 10 days post shake.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435365 - 01/15/20 05:29 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Smell is a very unreliable indicator. If there's a bad smell yes its contaminated but a lack of a off smell doesn't exclude contamination as a possibility.
Also new growers eyes are horrible contamination detectors. Because your jars look bad and it's pretty obvious
10 days post shaken they should have looked 100% perfect 7 days ago
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26435400 - 01/15/20 05:58 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Really, they look that bad??? What is it about the look that gives you that? Just so I learn for myself.
I’m going to shake one up to break it up and pop the lid and take a whiff. Is it going to be a problem popping the lid in my room to smell?
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 06:00 PM)
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26435424 - 01/15/20 06:22 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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What is it that looks so bad that you can immediately see? Just so I can learn for myself.
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LadysKnight
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435470 - 01/15/20 06:53 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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There's plenty of moisture showing at the tops of those jars. I think the dry looking grains is from the gray wispy mold on them.
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DNA_Trip
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I don't see any grey whispy mold when I look at my jars...
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26435520 - 01/15/20 07:23 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I agree about the shake time because my Pink Buffalo I did last month fully colonized 6 days after my shake. I was thinking this is just progressing slower, which is how this got started... I'm just going over everything and I did everything the same. I am confident in my sterile technique, and I wore sterile attire, did everything sterile the same as last time, so if something has happened I don't know where it could of came from...? I'm just pondering and questioning everything now... I want to open one and give it a whiff but I may wait another day or so. If it ends up smelling like fresh mushrooms then maybe it is just the way it is colonizing and is slower than usual from some variable.
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 07:31 PM)
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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435530 - 01/15/20 07:26 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Stop with the double and triple posting the only growth you have in your jars is weak and wispy
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435545 - 01/15/20 07:34 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I just want to learn and ask, that's all. When I look at my jars I don't see any whispy, can you tell me where you're seeing that? Because when I go look at them I don't see any. I see gypsum granules that I believe others are mistaking for yeast. I agree it's weak, that was my primary concern, but that's why I was asking about slow colonization time and could just be taking longer...?
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 07:36 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435567 - 01/15/20 07:51 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Is there some better way you want it described? Tell me what an orange tastes like. You'll get an eye for it eventually.
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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435570 - 01/15/20 07:52 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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It's not normal to take longer, a healthy jar would be done by now plain and simple, it would be aggressive start to finish with nice rhizzo growth
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435573 - 01/15/20 07:54 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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 That's a few days post shake. Ps I could have edited my post but I didnt
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26435625 - 01/15/20 08:24 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Well I just wasted a jar I because I opened it and had to throw it away now - it smelled strongly of perfect fresh mushrooms.
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/15/20 08:25 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435640 - 01/15/20 08:32 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Cool well go ahead and try them out. Eventually you'll correlate your results to jar appearance
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26435667 - 01/15/20 08:58 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I'm not sure if that was intended to be sarcastic towards me and my jars... I'm just wanting to learn, chat, and talk with other cultivators on here and learn man.
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Samskara92
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435752 - 01/15/20 09:58 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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If you want to learn, start by accepting the information being provided to you. You have multiple Trusted Cultivators telling you what's going on here. I am a noob and I can also see that that those jars are toast. You gotta remember that mold is also a type of fungus, and can easily ride with mycellium in disguise. Look at the picture Cron shared. That's what you're looking for
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rido



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26435852 - 01/15/20 11:04 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: I'm not sure if that was intended to be sarcastic towards me and my jars... I'm just wanting to learn, chat, and talk with other cultivators on here and learn man.
I love to learn by doing. In this case, you have what you see as perfectly good jars, but also a general consensus in this thread that they look contaminated.
I suggest you spawn these each into their own shoebox, keeping them separate from any other grows. You'll get to practice the techniques and see what happens. Maybe you even end up with some fruits, maybe not. Give it a shot and re-read this thread when you're done as a post-grow debriefing.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436091 - 01/16/20 04:44 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Seems Quote:
DNA_Trip said: I'm not sure if that was intended to be sarcastic towards me and my jars... I'm just wanting to learn, chat, and talk with other cultivators on here and learn man.
Seems like you want to tell everyone how wrong they are. If you know better than us try your jars out post pics prove us wrong. No harm in that.
No one here tried to save you the hassle and tell you to start new jars now so you get mushrooms ASAP.
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Samskara92]
#26436147 - 01/16/20 05:45 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I’m just concerned how this could of happened because for it to happen to all three of my jars is concerning and I’m trying to understand what happened or what the source was so I know since I’m going to have to do this all over in the near future. I can’t think of anything that I did and it’s weird that all 3 of my jars are like that.
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26436151 - 01/16/20 05:49 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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You’re a legend on here, there’s no way I’m not listening to you Bodhisatta. I’m thinking over everything I did, and trying to pinpoint what could of happened and what the source was, etc. It’s just upsetting and concerning that how did all of my jars are like that. I would understand if it was a single one or something, but for all three...? I can’t think of what I may of done wrong, that’s what is troubling me.
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Samskara92
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436159 - 01/16/20 05:56 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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If you injected you jars with MS syringe, than it's more likely they'll contam than not. If you want clean results, start looking into doing agar, and cleaning up cultures before inoculation.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436197 - 01/16/20 06:27 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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You can pc your jars 2 hours. and post pics of your agar.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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DNA_Trip
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I didn’t do agar. I did a spore syringe. What would PC those jars for 2 hours do? For a grain transfer?
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/16/20 07:14 AM)
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trubblesome
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436297 - 01/16/20 07:44 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I've had contamination that looked like this before. I don't know exactly what it is but you can see it has shriveled those grains that aren't colonizing. no matter what those granules are, the fact those berries haven't colonized with mycelium but are shriveling up means something you can't see is eating them.
PC'ing for 2 hours would kill whatever contam is growing on them so you can dump them out without unloading their nastiness in to your house. some contams can be hazardous to your health, which is why you shouldn't take a big whiff of a jar you suspect contam'd, especially if you don't know what it is.
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26436338 - 01/16/20 08:27 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I’m just feeling over it concerned and upset as to what wrong or what happened...
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TheStallionMang
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436354 - 01/16/20 08:38 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Shit happens, try again
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trubblesome
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip] 1
#26436412 - 01/16/20 09:09 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: I’m just feeling over it concerned and upset as to what wrong or what happened...
Quote:
DNA_Trip said: I didn’t do agar. I did a spore syringe.
spore syringe to grain is what happened. learn agar, it's easy, and you'll know that you're only putting clean mycelium in to your grain jars. The time I got this contamination was from spore syringe -> LC -> grain. That was a mistake. Now i'm using agar and never looking back.
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bodhisatta 
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Even the best spore syringes are not axenic. Spores directly to grain is always a gamble. Sometimes you could get 95% good jars sometimes its 50/50 sometimes its 100% bad
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26436779 - 01/16/20 12:46 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Would you spawn these to see what you get? Is there any harm in that? Or is that dangerous?
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436823 - 01/16/20 01:09 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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No harm, if you have the space and supplies you might as well just for experience.
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LAGM2020     
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26436865 - 01/16/20 01:41 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Is this the only three jars you got or something...
I'd just do it man. So many people told me to dump these 4 or 5 jars I had. Said they aren't worth spawning. Someone even told me to throw the whole jar out so I dont spread anything (just bacteria)...
I didnt listen and spawned all of them in the same mono... I also got way more mushrooms then if I would've dumped the jars out...
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26436971 - 01/16/20 03:09 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah I'll probably do it tomorrow. I was just worried about introducing any contamination into the bulk substrate, and then some poisonous mushrooms will grow or something...? Does that sound too far fetched and I'm just being paranoid?
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DNA_Trip
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Yes, these were the only 3 jars I made from a B+ syringe. I'm only down to 2 because last night after being on the thread and getting other input from people, I popped one open to see if it passed the smell test, and it smelled like fresh mushrooms. So now I'm down to 2. I'm going to spawn to bulk tomorrow then, I'm just worried about introducing any bacteria or anything that people are saying I have in my jars into my bulk substrate and growing some bacterial poisonous mushrooms or something. Or am I just being too paranoid?
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436983 - 01/16/20 03:13 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I'll take "things that will never happen" for $500
Lol dude ya ur paranoid for sure... if that could happen then there would be crazy news coverage over hippies dying from poisonous mushrooms...
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26436990 - 01/16/20 03:16 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: Yes, these were the only 3 jars I made from a B+ syringe. I'm only down to 2 because last night after being on the thread and getting other input from people, I popped one open to see if it passed the smell test, and it smelled like fresh mushrooms. So now I'm down to 2. I'm going to spawn to bulk tomorrow then, I'm just worried about introducing any bacteria or anything that people are saying I have in my jars into my bulk substrate and growing some bacterial poisonous mushrooms or something. Or am I just being too paranoid?
Bacteria is fine to eat in most cases it's in your yogurt on your meat and on your skin...
If your jar was 100% colonized when u opened it it is still fine...
Most jars have some level of bacteria in them from what I've gathered...
I even grew a whole tray of bacterial mushrooms where the sub even turned yellow ish gold and had a tray that was overrun with pseudomonas bacteria... all turned out fine...
Pretty sure most bacteria dies after dehydrating them anyways..
Edited by SpunkyMonkey88 (01/16/20 03:19 PM)
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DNA_Trip
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I don't even know where to start with agar or how to do it. Did you just buy agar Petri dishes?
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cronicr



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So now your just gonna tell him to spawn jars at 50% colonization...good job, there you go u got the answer you wanted to hear, good luck
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437000 - 01/16/20 03:22 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: I don't even know where to start with agar or how to do it. Did you just buy agar Petri dishes?
Only if u want to spend WAY more money... u can make them cheap as hell and it sounds intimidating but it's actually easy AF to pour your own plates...
If u got a SAB then all u need is petris and agar and ull be set to make much healthier cultures and you can start cloning... or if u wanna do it now go get some glad mini round containers and make some no pours... if u have agar all u need is a few bucks worth of stuff at walmart...
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26437003 - 01/16/20 03:23 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: So now your just gonna tell him to spawn jars at 50% colonization...good job, there you go u got the answer you wanted to hear, good luck 
If u r referring to something I said... that is definitely not what I meant... obviously should never spawn anything that isn't 100% just telling him bacterial jars can still produce...once fully colonized
Edited by SpunkyMonkey88 (01/16/20 03:24 PM)
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437004 - 01/16/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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To start agar I bought a tub for SAB, a small bad of premixed lme agar, and two sleeves of plates. And a media bottle, but you can use other stuff instead.
Everything prob cost like 40 dollars. Then once I knew I was into it bought a case of 500 and bigger bags of lme and agar so I could mix my own ratios.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26437050 - 01/16/20 03:48 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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No, I'm very reluctant in doing so, I wasn't planning to. My main concern is harm and what can happen. The last several people have told me I'm being to paranoid and to just do it. I'm still weary and cautious about it, but they're just giving me their experiences is all, they're not doing anything wrong...
P.S. I know you're still referring to my picture of my jars from a couple days ago, they are way more complete than that, but not for certain it's a 100% colonized like my last run.
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437056 - 01/16/20 03:55 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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There’s very few things that could grow that can hurt you, and they’re rare and if they did pop up easy to see.
I looked into it a lot before I started too and it seems like you’d have to go out of your way to get sick.
As long as you’re not eating or inhaling large amounts of weird looking mold you’re good.
Plus the dehydrator will take care of pretty much anything in there even if you somehow missed a large patch of mold on a mushroom.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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This is how my jars came out this time for some reason. I originally had 3, opened one up last night to take a smell, and it smelled like fresh mushrooms. But this is what brought me to creating this thread because I didn’t understand why they’re like this this time.
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437084 - 01/16/20 04:08 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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If you only opened it real quick to smell it it’s probably not any worse off.
I feel you man I never really bothered learning to ID spawn problems cuz I only did syringe to grain grows but now that I’m doing agar I’m working on it.
I still have trouble picking bacteria out but the easiest way for me so far is to look for bald spots on the grains. You can usually see where it looks like sometime is stopping the myc from growing any further on the edges of those spots.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437096 - 01/16/20 04:16 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Well I chunked it though after opening it up. Yeah that is how some of it looks. I did my shake last week, and all of a sudden colonization was looking like this. I thought maybe the grains were too dry or something, but it's just not getting there all the way. Did this ever happen to you in any of your syringe to grain grows? Also, where did you get your agar? I need to start off simple since I don't know anything about it. Just looking it up there are so many different teks for different things.
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/16/20 04:20 PM)
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437106 - 01/16/20 04:20 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I alway use wbs, I definitely had some sketchy jars but never lost one. I did have some that grew normally until I shook them and then they took forever to recover, and when they did the myc wasn’t bright white and healthy looking anymore but it still grew.
I got at least one decent flush out of all of them though.
I never smelled anything until like a week after I spawned them and then a few had this weird spicy fruit kind of smell going on.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437113 - 01/16/20 04:27 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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So now that you're doing agar, you just stick to agar? Where did you get your agar from? I'm looking it up, there are so many types, and so many teks, I don't know what is for what.
Also, do you think I should try a shoebox each? Or put both into one shoebox?
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437115 - 01/16/20 04:33 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I’d do one each with one quart of coir each.
I got all my stuff on amazon. I had a ton of little things to buy so I signed up for the free month of amazon prime and bought everything I could think of while the shipping was free.
Agar is really cheap and easy. I just started like a month or so ago myself, my first clone tubs were spawned 8 days ago.
The best part I’m finding out is you’ll end up with all these plates full of myc from old transfers that are clean so anytime I want to grow some I can just grab a plate of that type and put it in a jar.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437127 - 01/16/20 04:40 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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One quart of coir doesn't seem like it will give me the necessary sub height needed which is between 2-4 inches correct?
What is the type of agar you bought?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437152 - 01/16/20 04:58 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Maybe this will help
All these are bad. Everyone of them

All these are good

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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437160 - 01/16/20 05:02 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said: One quart of coir doesn't seem like it will give me the necessary sub height needed which is between 2-4 inches correct?
What is the type of agar you bought?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26437166 - 01/16/20 05:05 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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The necessary height is between 1 grain of spawn tall and 6 inches or more.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
IAmABanana said: Once pin heads form, stop misting the casing. Water is not the only factor in determining fruit size. Another major factor is substrate depth. What species is this anyway? (I'm assuming cubensis).
The casing doesn't really hold much moisture, it provides a micro climate for primordia growth. The water content should not be an issue on the first flush.
Sorry, but that is flat-out wrong. I can't just let it slide. I've worked for many years to overcome bad advice that was given out in the early days when mushrooms growing was not understood.
NEVER stop misting. Growing mushrooms require moisture AND fresh air. If you're providing the proper amount of fresh air, your fruits and your substrate will dry out. This leads to small fruits. You MUST mist from the pin stage all the way to mature fruits if you want a proper flush.
Quote:
The casing doesn't really hold much moisture
Again, incorrect. The purpose of a casing layer(when used) is to hold moisture to support the flush. By misting, or even pouring water directly on the casing layer surface, the mycelium that has partially colonized the casing can absorb this moisture and carry it to the substrate, where it can help the developing mushrooms to grow.
The reason deeper substrates support larger flushes and fruits is because larger substrates hold more moisture. If you give proper moisture control to small substrates, they will perform well too. It's all about water, as can be seen by the picture below of very large mushrooms on a very small substrate. It's all about misting and fresh air, from initiation through harvest. RR
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26437192 - 01/16/20 05:27 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Hey bod those bad ones you posted, the bottom left pic can you tell the ones with uncolonized areas are bad because the myc is too thick? The rhizo growth does look different also, seems longer and fatter.
All I know to look for now is the leading edge getting kind of thin and uneven but those jars don’t have that from what I can tell.
It seems like all the healthy ones are totally covered but the grain is still visible.
That rr pic with the jar is awesome, have to blow it up everytime I come across it.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (01/16/20 05:28 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437215 - 01/16/20 05:39 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yes and it slowing down and not colonizing further is also a pretty good sign of a big problem
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26437225 - 01/16/20 05:44 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Ok cool thanks.
Good or bad?

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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437401 - 01/16/20 07:30 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Those would be bad then right considering my jars also and what bodhisatta just posted.
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437420 - 01/16/20 07:43 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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I’m not sure that’s why I asked, I have a lot of trouble distinguishing between bacterial wet spots and condensation wet spots.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26437428 - 01/16/20 07:52 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah and your popcorn isn’t completely covered and colonized like my grains...
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Elrik
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437635 - 01/16/20 10:46 PM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNA_Trip said:I soaked my grains for 24 hours, and then boiled for 10 minutes and let the steam evaporate.
For me this has always been a recipe for too-dry grain. I experimented around a little and the best modification I came up with for wheat is to soak at pasteurization temperature for several hours, bring to a gentle boil and keep it there just until grains start to burst [about 10 minutes, seemingly longer with coffee water], then turn off the heat and let it cool while stirring a few times. I've tried rinsing and drying with a towel and I've tried not doing that, to date not doing it hasn't harmed anything beyond being a little harder to shake once colonized. Cooling in the cooking water will let it suck up lots of water and fully hydrate. 400 grams wheat, 1 gram gypsum, and 4 cups water will leave behind just 1/2 to 1 cup of extra liquid after the cool [which can be fortified with some MEA and used for agar].
Oh, be prepared to use less grain per jar. My 60 gram size jars went down to a maximum of 52.5g and my pint jars went from comfortably holding 125g to barely being shakable at 110g.
-------------------- The Nook
Edited by Elrik (01/16/20 10:48 PM)
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Funguys95
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26437740 - 01/17/20 01:24 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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I think some myc just takes longer to grow.. I’ve got 2 jars that have been going at least 3 weeks and still aren’t 100% colonized and the rest all colonized super fast. Ironically the fast myc was in the dryer jars than the other two I have. To answer the original question I would think adding water at this stage would just ad the possibility of contam. This is one of my jars after 3 weeks
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cronicr



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Funguys95]
#26437759 - 01/17/20 01:59 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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U filled them too much your supposed to shake
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26437770 - 01/17/20 02:17 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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I was trying to figure out what was off about it and couldn’t good eye
Faht
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SpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26437878 - 01/17/20 06:06 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Funguys95 said: I think some myc just takes longer to grow.. I’ve got 2 jars that have been going at least 3 weeks and still aren’t 100% colonized and the rest all colonized super fast. Ironically the fast myc was in the dryer jars than the other two I have. To answer the original question I would think adding water at this stage would just ad the possibility of contam. This is one of my jars after 3 weeks

Quote:
cronicr said: U filled them too much your supposed to shake
Ya that jar would be done by now if he could've/would've shook it at 30%
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Funguys95
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I shook a few times but by 65% or so it was just a solid white brick, Almost impossible to break up. And that jar is actually 4 1/2 weeks.. and yeah I never keep in mind how much the grain will rise when it’s cooked..
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Psychgro
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Funguys95]
#26444683 - 01/21/20 11:24 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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DNA, any updates on your jars/ course of action??
-------------------- Looking to learn all about it
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Psychgro]
#26445606 - 01/22/20 04:24 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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I spawned each jar into their own shoebox 3 days ago, but it doesn’t look like any of them are really taking over and colonizing the substrate. It’s not really proliferating and taking over. My last few always took off within a couple of days devouring the coir with rhizo shooting all through the top of the substrate and you can watch the colonization of the substrate through the sides. Right now the grains are just sitting there, they’re white, but it doesn’t look like any mycelium is spreading or colonizing through...
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trubblesome
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26445665 - 01/22/20 05:57 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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have you got stuff for agar/started plates yet?
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DNA_Trip
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Well I don’t have a laminar flow hood, and still using a SAB can even get contaminated as almost as open air, so I don’t know if it’s worth putting in the time to make some rather than just buying some. I looked some up, and you can already buy a pack of LME plates so I’m thinking about doing that instead.
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26445784 - 01/22/20 08:06 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Dude SAB is more than adequate. It’s your fault if you’re having problems with it, my main thing was remembering not to move anything over something clean.
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LAGM2020     
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trubblesome
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26445794 - 01/22/20 08:14 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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you definitely don't need a flow hood. many labs pour plates in open air with proper precautions and good sterile technique. an SAB is more than adequate.
There are also "no-pour" teks where you just mix the agar and nutrients, pour them in to a container that can withstand the pressure cooker and sterilize it right in the dish in the PC.
Here's the classic: Pasty Plates you could use simpler nutrients and agar powder if you want though, you don't have to do the potato flakes/karo etc. you could just do light malt extract and agar powder. people do them at agar 15 g/L and LME from 7.5 g/L up to 15 g/L
but either way, buying them pre made or making them on your own, working with agar is going to make your cultivation much less stressful.
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bodhisatta 
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My how to do agar videos are filmed in a SAB... I did the agar work while talking. If you can't get good results with a SAB a FH will be no improvement since it doesn't fix your technique
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26445977 - 01/22/20 09:51 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Yeah I’m trying to decide which is the best. There are so many TEKs. Since I’m a beginner I’m trying to find out which one is the easiest and best for me. I was thinking of just buying some already made ones from Amazon. Or would you not recommend that?
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26445981 - 01/22/20 09:54 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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All you need is the tub and either a torch and a knife/box cutter or a coffee can you can heat up and push through.
I did mine by getting the box cutter blade red hot and cutting circles out. I could only do like an inch at a time before re torching or the plastic would crack. Still only took like ten mins.
There’s no reason to buy one pre made.
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LAGM2020     
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trubblesome
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26445984 - 01/22/20 09:55 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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i think they're talking about pre made plates
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bodhisatta 
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Even worse lol
Premade plates is like buying half ate food. It's ridiculous
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26446005 - 01/22/20 10:01 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Why is that BOD? To buy pre made agar plates?
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/22/20 10:02 AM)
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LadysKnight
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26446039 - 01/22/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Edited by LadysKnight (01/22/20 10:27 AM)
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trubblesome
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Quote:
LadysKnight said: Here are some pre-made agar plates someone recently bought:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26439961#26439961
those plates
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26446165 - 01/22/20 11:24 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Honestly I never knew that inoculating grains by spore syringe was looked down upon and I’m being told it sucks. My last couple grows I inoculated with a spore syringe within a SAB and also open air, both, and everything worked great so I just kept doing what always worked for me.
Edited by DNA_Trip (01/22/20 11:24 AM)
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26446168 - 01/22/20 11:28 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Yeah same with me, all my grows have been syringe to wbs with no SAB.
Idk if I got particularly clean syringes or what but they’ve been fine. I made lc with them months ago and forgot about it until recently, tested two and both look clean after two weeks.
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LAGM2020     
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26446191 - 01/22/20 11:42 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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The grow that you posted me that you said was from bad spawn, how long did that shoebox take to colonize and pin? Did it go a lot slower than usual?
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26446208 - 01/22/20 11:52 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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No it was normal
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26446217 - 01/22/20 11:56 AM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Well damn, I think I might just throw away these shoeboxes then. There's a few random white little puffs poking through, but that's about it. It definitely is going way slower, I can't tell if it's even spreading and colonizing at all like how you would regularly. What's your set up and technique whenever you do open air?
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26446227 - 01/22/20 12:01 PM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Well I guess technically it wasn’t completely open, I had a cardboard box I set on it’s side and knocked up the jars inside.
But I just wiped down the lid and needle and stuck it in the jar. I had a tyvek layer with silicon ship on top and then put a piece of Micropore tape over the ship just in case.
I still incubate my jars in the same box
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (01/22/20 12:02 PM)
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DNA_Trip
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26446334 - 01/22/20 12:52 PM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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How do you do your agar? What was the easiest way you found to do it as a beginner?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: DNA_Trip]
#26446377 - 01/22/20 01:14 PM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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I use half pint jars. Mix agar and brf ( 10 grams agar 8 grams brf) then add 500 mls of cool water, mix it up and heat it up on the stove, once it's thick I pour it in the bottom of the jars and sterilize. The lids are just a hole covered with 2 layers of micropore tape
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: cronicr]
#26446397 - 01/22/20 01:28 PM (4 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: I use half pint jars. Mix agar and brf ( 10 grams agar 8 grams brf) then add 500 mls of cool water, mix it up and heat it up on the stove, once it's thick I pour it in the bottom of the jars and sterilize. The lids are just a hole covered with 2 layers of micropore tape
This sounds like the best way to try it out cheap.
I bought a nice media bottle, 40 plates, a scalpel, and a small bag of premixed lme agar.
Agar really is super easy, especially pouring the plates I’ve never had a contamination in prob 140 of them. Using them without getting contams might have a little learning curve but nothing serious.
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Psychgro
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26447763 - 01/23/20 07:42 AM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Nothing to be afraid of with agar DNA. I’m a total noob and although it hasn’t been all successful, starting out with agar has been worth it for me. I used this wood burning tool, you can pick up at harbor freight or on amazon, to cut the holes in my SAB (105qt, go big).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_3?ie=UTF8&adId=A040549527TVYHYIYV69Y&url=%2FWalnut-Hollow-Introduction-Intermediate-Woodburners%2Fdp%2FB000VRTG8Y%2Fref%3Dsr_1_3_sspa%3Fcrid%3DI2VOB1R9UB2X%26keywords%3Dwood%2Bburning%2Btool%26qid%3D1579789241%26sprefix%3DWood%2Bbur%252Caps%252C140%26sr%3D8-3-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1579789241&id=2349388636724237&widgetName=sp_atf
I bought a sleeve of petris for $12 (which I haven’t used) and have been using zip loc minis with twist caps that I picked up at Walmart. My media bottle is a glass braggs apple cider vinegar bottle (almost 1L, 976 to be exact, they sell smaller ones too).
I’ve had some contam in very few plates, I have many second and third transfers, but mostly I have a lot of dead cultures probably from spraying too much ISO or bleach solution...go for it!
-------------------- Looking to learn all about it
Edited by Psychgro (01/23/20 08:14 AM)
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Psychgro]
#26447784 - 01/23/20 08:08 AM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Why were you using iso and bleach with agar??
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LAGM2020     
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Psychgro
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26447790 - 01/23/20 08:18 AM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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To clean stuff inside the SAB prior to actually introducing the cultures...I would wipe down the sab, drench the towel on the bottom, wipe down the outside of all plates and syringes (excessively). I was too worried and scared.
Now I know it’s okay to get some contaminated plates,it doesn’t have to be perfect and can be counter productive when one tries to be. so long as I get some good plates/transfers while I’m at it, it’s worth it. My SAB technique still sucks, I fumble around a lot but finesse will come with time
-------------------- Looking to learn all about it
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A.k.a
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: Psychgro]
#26447803 - 01/23/20 08:39 AM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Oh ok I thought you were putting it on the plates or something.
Man if you used enough to damage the cultures just from fumes I’m surprised you didn’t blow up at some point lol.
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LAGM2020     
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Psychgro
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Re: Injecting sterile water? [Re: A.k.a]
#26448109 - 01/23/20 12:23 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Oh ok I thought you were putting it on the plates or something.
Man if you used enough to damage the cultures just from fumes I’m surprised you didn’t blow up at some point lol.
my guess is that some of it must’ve gotten on the plates from the air...only way all those plates (between 30-40) have remained “sterile” for 3 weeks 🤪.im about to toss those(20 glass petris 60mm, smaller than I like...I’ve learned now... and like 20 Ziploc minis)
The other big mistake I made was forgetting to microwave agar after adding all ingredients...I would think to myself “why isn’t everything gelling?” And I would then add water, nutes and/or agar (without keeping track of ratios. I think that and “over sanitizing” have been my biggest mistakes.
After watching the channel “home mycology” on YouTube I realized I was being too OCD with trying to sterilize things. I wouldn’t recommend what that guy does but I think a happy medium between that and what I used to do is appropriate.
DNA, go for it!! 😝
-------------------- Looking to learn all about it
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