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Socrateshroom
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BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"?
#26432775 - 01/14/20 08:35 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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3 out of my 10 brf cakes started pinning in the jars before full colonization.
- There were and are no visible contams.
- They continue/continued to colonize. (There was not a lot of area left uncolonized when they started to pin).
- One finished colonizing and the pins kept growing. I let it sit an extra couple of days and birthed it and dunked it. It looked fine and smelled like fresh mush.
- The other 2 are finishing colonizing as pins are growing (most on the opposite side of where colonization is finishing).
- The colonization has not stalled. It kept growing uniformly and with the same pace, just pins arrived before full colonization.
So I'm wondering, is it possible for them to start pinning in the jars before full colonization and nothing be wrong with them (or perhaps whatever was wrong they fight off and everything is ok?)
Or is it always a sign that there is a bad contaminant and the cake should be trashed even if it looks and smells good?
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sonoramo
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26432918 - 01/14/20 10:11 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Socrateshroom said: 3 out of my 10 brf cakes started pinning in the jars before full colonization.
... is it possible for them to start pinning in the jars before full colonization and nothing be wrong with them (or perhaps whatever was wrong they fight off and everything is ok?)
Or is it always a sign that there is a bad contaminant and the cake should be trashed even if it looks and smells good?
I've taken cakes out a few days after they started pinning, then scraped off all the uncolonized substrate. Kinda like what your dentist does when you have a cavity, before filling it. It makes a strange-shaped cake, but I got mushrooms from it and they were perfect.
IME, you can't always see the contams and they don't always smell bad (though they usually do). I'd rather err on the side of caution by birthing them after they colonize or a few days after the first pins show up. That means you lose whatever shrooms would have grown from the never-colonized BRF.
Edit: Here's a picture of a post-surgery cake growing perfect mushrooms. About 1/3 of the cake never colonized and I cut it.
Edited by sonoramo (01/14/20 10:14 AM)
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: sonoramo] 1
#26432966 - 01/14/20 10:49 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
sonoramo said:
Quote:
Socrateshroom said: 3 out of my 10 brf cakes started pinning in the jars before full colonization.
... is it possible for them to start pinning in the jars before full colonization and nothing be wrong with them (or perhaps whatever was wrong they fight off and everything is ok?)
Or is it always a sign that there is a bad contaminant and the cake should be trashed even if it looks and smells good?
I've taken cakes out a few days after they started pinning, then scraped off all the uncolonized substrate. Kinda like what your dentist does when you have a cavity, before filling it. It makes a strange-shaped cake, but I got mushrooms from it and they were perfect.
IME, you can't always see the contams and they don't always smell bad (though they usually do). I'd rather err on the side of caution by birthing them after they colonize or a few days after the first pins show up. That means you lose whatever shrooms would have grown from the never-colonized BRF.
Edit: Here's a picture of a post-surgery cake growing perfect mushrooms. About 1/3 of the cake never colonized and I cut it. 
The weird thing is they aren't stalling, they are continuing to go as normal. I dunked one since it finished + I gave it a few extra days just in case. And the last one I dunked with pins that were forming in the jar, they grew beautifully and I just harvested.
So I'm wondering if it is possible for them to pin naturally before full colonization and if so, what could possibly cause this phenomena.
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pickle jar pete
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26433239 - 01/14/20 01:54 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Tall jars?
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: pickle jar pete] 1
#26433245 - 01/14/20 01:55 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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What size n shape jars can make a big difference
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: pickle jar pete]
#26433250 - 01/14/20 01:56 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Half pint, wide mouth, (8oz) jars.
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pickle jar pete
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26433305 - 01/14/20 02:17 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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probably contam. Cut in half and check for mold.
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: pickle jar pete]
#26433323 - 01/14/20 02:25 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Bacteria can trigger pinning and not be much of a threat, pics would help
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: cronicr]
#26433326 - 01/14/20 02:27 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Bacteria can trigger pinning and not be much of a threat, pics would help
I'll post them as soon as I get home, Thanks
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26433513 - 01/14/20 04:06 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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That’s the one remaining that is finishing.
The other cake was pinning before full colonization but I just looked at it and it has fully colonized.
Edit: The dark on the sides is dry verm that has fallen
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Edited by Socrateshroom (01/14/20 04:07 PM)
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26433616 - 01/14/20 05:23 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Where is it not colonized?
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: cronicr]
#26433642 - 01/14/20 05:40 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Where is it not colonized?
First picture, that patch in the middle towards the bottom. The patch was slightly bigger a few days ago as pins started.
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26433681 - 01/14/20 06:04 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Yeah nothing I would sweat man
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: cronicr] 1
#26434427 - 01/15/20 06:56 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Yeah nothing I would sweat man
Thanks!
I just took the one out of dunk that also started pinning before "full" colonization (I didn't dunk until 3 days after it finished colonizing) and it looks and smells perfect to me.
Here is what the small patch from the above jar looked like this morning, will be done colonizing at night, then I guess I'll wait a few days just incase before dunking.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26434452 - 01/15/20 07:33 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Interesting.
I see wispy mycelium on the top half and full "bushy" mycelium on the bottom half. Never see anything like it before. Almost like two different strains.
Sometimes mycelium will take a short cut thru the cake if the PF mixture is too loose. Basically it colonizes part of the jar because it cant/wont reach the loose material.
But what u have here looks like two different types of mycelium growing on a strata. Most intriguing 
What strain is this?
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26434462 - 01/15/20 07:39 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Huautla MS from a trusted vendor.
Are you thinking it is multiple strains of cubes? Or a cube and a non cube growing in the same jar?
P.S I think you hit the nail on the head. My mixture looked loose after I inoculated.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26434467 - 01/15/20 07:41 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Probably two strains of cubenis. I have seen a two species grow before. A cube and an edible. Very rare mistake by the vendor.
Because of the loose material/short-cutting, i always gently compact my cakes before steam sterilizing them.
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26434470 - 01/15/20 07:44 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Got it, I definitely will do for the future. I heard it was bad to compress the mixture so my not so smart brain said "let's shake the jar as i'm filling it to have a looser mix". Won't do that again.
So is there any danger or issues with two strains growing on the same cake?
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26434485 - 01/15/20 08:06 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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No dangers at all. In fact, all MS grows have multiple strains but Ive never see two opposite mycelium types like that.
The only bad thing about excessive compacting cake mixtures is really long colonization times which *might* lead to stalling. The advantage thou is slightly higher yields due to the higher density of the cakes.
I recommend gentle compacting. I use a spoon and press gently on the mixture when its at the top of the jar. Then i check the sides of the jar to make sure its the right looking density (no big air gaps) and then add more mixture then gently compact the top once more then add the dry verm layer on top. Dont compact the dry verm layer, theres no reason to.
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26434503 - 01/15/20 08:21 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Rad! Thanks for the tips, I'll add it to my process. I definitely had some small air-gaps, must've caused it.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: No dangers at all. In fact, all MS grows have multiple strains but Ive never see two opposite mycelium types like that.
Cool! Excited to hear that something interesting is happening with my cakes
I'll definitely keep a watchful eye on those three especially to see how they progress. They have a crazy amount of pins in the jar. I just harvested one that was pinning in the jar. Pins grew into nice, large and healthy fruits. I was scared seeing them pin before full colonization, especially since these have been my fastest colonizing, best looking cakes (I've got most of my technique down and have my sterile technique down 100% so I'm getting rewarded I guess ).
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Edited by Socrateshroom (01/15/20 08:23 AM)
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26434509 - 01/15/20 08:24 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Congrats on your pins! Fruit in your fruiting chamber ASAP and remove any uncolonized sections. And keep some notes on those two layers of mycelium. Might see some different looking fruits on each layer as they grow
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26434517 - 01/15/20 08:33 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Congrats on your pins! Fruit in your fruiting chamber ASAP and remove any uncolonized sections. And keep some notes on those two layers of mycelium. Might see some different looking fruits on each layer as they grow 

Will do!
Should I still dunk the last one I have that's pinning in the jar or right to my fruiting chamber?
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#26434528 - 01/15/20 08:44 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I dont like to dunk pinning cakes cause it usually aborts the pins. I would go straight into the fruiting chamber then bottom-water.
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26434533 - 01/15/20 08:47 AM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: I dont like to dunk pinning cakes cause it usually aborts the pins. I would go straight into the fruiting chamber then bottom-water.
Will do! I'm excited to watch this cool phenomena of the possible two strains unfold
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26434846 - 01/15/20 12:35 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Are you guys talking about the clearly visible myc only or the stuff the verm fell down over as well?
Lol I thought you had a huge verm barrier with the worlds smallest cake at first.
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: A.k.a]
#26434878 - 01/15/20 12:51 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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giant verm barrier experiment time 
I was discussing the visible parts. From what I see (and since I birthed two of them) everything was fine under where the verm barrier fell.
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26434972 - 01/15/20 01:34 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Interesting.
I see wispy mycelium on the top half and full "bushy" mycelium on the bottom half. Never see anything like it before. Almost like two different strains.
Sometimes mycelium will take a short cut thru the cake if the PF mixture is too loose. Basically it colonizes part of the jar because it cant/wont reach the loose material.
But what u have here looks like two different types of mycelium growing on a strata. Most intriguing 
What strain is this?
It happens when the dry layer starts to fall down the sides
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Socrateshroom
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26436244 - 01/16/20 07:02 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: It happens when the dry layer starts to fall down the sides
What is the best way to prevent this? I know it will always happen to some degree as the cake shrinks a bit but I seem to always have this issue. Is it because my brf mixture is too loose?
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: I dont like to dunk pinning cakes cause it usually aborts the pins. I would go straight into the fruiting chamber then bottom-water.
Woah! So I did that and the cake sucked up all of the water within 2 hours! Was a cool sight to see. Should I keep replenishing the water?
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26436275 - 01/16/20 07:26 AM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Add water as necessary. Dont overdue it to the point of becoming soggy.
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cronicr



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Re: BRF Cakes - Is it possible to pin before full colonization and nothing be "wrong"? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26437002 - 01/16/20 03:23 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Socrateshroom said:
Quote:
cronicr said: It happens when the dry layer starts to fall down the sides
What is the best way to prevent this? I know it will always happen to some degree as the cake shrinks a bit but I seem to always have this issue. Is it because my brf mixture is too loose?
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: I dont like to dunk pinning cakes cause it usually aborts the pins. I would go straight into the fruiting chamber then bottom-water.
Woah! So I did that and the cake sucked up all of the water within 2 hours! Was a cool sight to see. Should I keep replenishing the water?
It's the type of jar you're using bit it's not a problem
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