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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineJohnRainy
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Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws * 2
    #26431845 - 01/13/20 05:42 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

It seems US laws are tying things like jobs, and here with Abby Martin, access to an arena, with a promise to never participate in the BDS movement.

Abby Martin SILENCED For Criticizing Israel, Gaza Film Conference Blocked Due To Anti-BDS Bill

The stated objective of BDS is to pressure Israel into compliance with international law specifically on the issues of Palestinian oppression.

Another story that emerged from this was from Texas, with a contractor teacher whose contract had a cause prohibiting her from employment if she didn't promise to oppose BDS.

She fought that and won.  Of course the state is appealing it, saying the companies who support BSD are 'discriminatory'.

Texas speech pathologist celebrates temporary free-speech win, hopes it inspires

Well then.  Discrimination requires an unjust basis, like sex or skin colour, or nationality.  So now there's a charade of pretending that concern for Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is false and BDS is merely about nationality?


This is about American rights to express themselves politically.  Here it clashes with the aims of the empire, I guess.  Israel is a nifty little vanguard for American power in that part of the world, and I guess the interests of the empire include crushing the Palestinians.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26432039 - 01/13/20 07:48 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

It's anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, end of story.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: qman] * 5
    #26432159 - 01/13/20 08:45 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

almost all of the regulars on this sub have criticized Israel.  I wouldn't think of most of them as anti-semitic


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Offlineqman
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26432173 - 01/13/20 08:55 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
almost all of the regulars on this sub have criticized Israel.  I wouldn't think of most of them as anti-semitic




What you think and what actually happens in the real world are two different issues in this case. Go ahead and publicly criticize Israel and see what happens, it ain't pretty.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: qman] * 2
    #26432197 - 01/13/20 09:04 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I live in a city with one of the largest Hasidic populations in the world. I've regularly criticized Israel, lock-step with some of the most traditional practicing Jews. You have to be pretty ignorant to think that the Jews consider everybody anti-semitic. Or perhaps you are anti-semitic and you are being called as much rightfully so. For example, those who use the abbreviation "JNN" on the regular.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: qman]
    #26432235 - 01/13/20 09:25 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, end of story.




That's sarcasm right?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: christopera]
    #26432253 - 01/13/20 09:41 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
I live in a city with one of the largest Hasidic populations in the world. I've regularly criticized Israel, lock-step with some of the most traditional practicing Jews. You have to be pretty ignorant to think that the Jews consider everybody anti-semitic. Or perhaps you are anti-semitic and you are being called as much rightfully so. For example, those who use the abbreviation "JNN" on the regular.




You don't criticize Israel on a large scale publicly and I never suggested "that the Jews consider everybody anti-Semitic". But go ahead and now call me anti-Semitic and prove my point.  :lol:


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: qman]
    #26432259 - 01/13/20 09:43 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, end of story.




Stop moving the goal posts.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: christopera]
    #26432281 - 01/13/20 10:03 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

My problem with BDS is that it isn’t against Israeli policy, but against Israel itself. This aspect is often described as anti-Semitic and I have no doubt a lot of the proponents are, but being against the existence of Israel isn’t inherently anti-Semitic. It’s a pretty shitty position tho.

I think the current government in israel is evil to its core. They are far worse than the right wing in this country. Fucking boycott away, but for the goal of better leadership.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: koods]
    #26432294 - 01/13/20 10:10 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Israel loves our arms and we love to sell/give it to them. Has it changed with any administration?


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: koods]
    #26432295 - 01/13/20 10:12 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I think that was supposed to be the point of BDS, following the south africa model


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: koods]
    #26432308 - 01/13/20 10:20 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

How is that a problem?  It's a peaceful, voluntary effort to get some justice for the Palestinians, and pressure Israel to follow international law.

You can't put pressure on a policy.  And it's already been spoken about and criticized to death for decades.  Israel doesn't care what the UN says, and the USA makes it impossible to enforce anything on them.  And it's trying to protect Israel from any condemnation here too, contrary to the rights of American citizens. 

Some people want to BDS.  It's their right.  People around the world are appalled and concerned, they need to express themselves some way.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26432312 - 01/13/20 10:22 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Oh for sure the anti-BDS legislation and making anything contingent on a promise of non-support is unacceptable


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: qman]
    #26433244 - 01/14/20 01:55 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, end of story.




I believe this statement is legally true, based on recent presidential decree in modification to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

It is anti-Semitic to criticize Israel, as this is a form of oppression towards the Jewish race.

I wonder how that Columbia University case plays out.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: Kryptos]
    #26433367 - 01/14/20 02:45 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Is there a reference to that?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26433548 - 01/14/20 04:26 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)



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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Abby Martin silenced with anti BDS laws [Re: Kryptos]
    #26433720 - 01/14/20 06:22 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

The first link does not contain the acronym "BDS"

The second article states that "Nowhere in the order does it explicitly define Jews as a nationality, but calls for the enforcement of “Title VI against prohibited forms of discrimination rooted in anti-Semitism as vigorously as against all other forms of discrimination prohibited by Title VI.” So, one could read the text to imply that Jews can be perceived as a race or having a common national origin, in order to receive protection under Title VI."

The article says "The Trump administration will now be able to say that boycotting Israel on college campuses is harming Jews, and then they will likely try to withhold funding from schools that promote the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel."


But that's just a magazine article saying that.  You need courts to agree to make it a legal reality, I don't know that any have.  The one case I heard about the government lost, but that was before this.

The third link is about someone launching a case using this.

"In April, SJP participated in Israel Apartheid Week at Columbia, which consisted of lectures, rallies and events that compared Israel to South Africa when it was an apartheid state. Israel Apartheid Week contributes to creating a hostile environment for Jewish students, according to the Lawfare Project's statement. Under Trump's executive order, it could constitute discrimination."

"On December 18, the Lawfare Project, an organization of legal professionals that defend Jewish people's civil and human rights, filed a complaint with the OCR on Karten's behalf. The organization alleges that he and other Jewish students endured "systemic discrimination" from anti-Israel groups on Columbia's campus, including Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP)."


So they are trying to say that BDS culture makes life for Jewish students "hostile".

OK.  We'll see if they can prove that.

So, nowhere in all this is anything that says criticizing Israel is legally anti-semitic.


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