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OfflineEp1429
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Green mold, out of ideas
    #26430715 - 01/13/20 07:44 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

For the last four months I’ve been fighting a green mold that moves in on my subs once they have started pinning. It started right after Halloween. I’ll get a beautiful pin set with zero sign of contams, they’ll get about an inch tall, and then I’ll get green mold in a spot the size of a penny on the top of the sub.

I was using g2g when this started, and thought it was my SAB technique that was bad, even though I’ve been doing this for over a year with zero problems.  So I bought a new 200 qt tub and made a new SAB with more room, to cut down on the possibility of me hitting the walls inside while working with the jars and shaking free contams that way.

Didn’t help.  Same issue.  The next couple of rounds of jars seemed clean, broke apart with a couple of light hits from just the bottom of my hand, smelled fine, I mean, there weren’t even clumps of colonized mycelium when I poured them into the tubs, every grain separated easily from every other grain.  The subs colonized fully and began pinning after 10 days, like they should, but again, once the pins get about an inch tall and the dreaded green spot appears.

So I switched to starting all of my jars with agar wedges.  I started a round of jars with agar colonized by a fresh spore print I created.  Same results.  Now I’m transferring from an existing culture that has produced clean results many times in the past, and I’m inspecting each plate before I use it.  The jars are colonizing fine, breaking up fine, smell good, the subs colonize fully and get a good pin set, and the pins still get that inch of growth before the mold sets in.

The next step was to stop using big tubs and go with shoeboxes, where each shoebox gets its own quart jar of spawn, in an attempt to isolate the contaminated jars from the non contaminated ones and not ruin big monotubs.  After a month of this, I’m still getting half of my subs contaminated in this manner.

I have legit run out of ideas here.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I don’t know of any mistakes I am making with my sterile technique, and since I’m getting 100% colonization on my subs and a good pin set before the outbreak, I’m beginning to wonder if the spawn is clean and the cause could be environmental?  Perhaps condensation dripping from the lids is providing an infection vector? 

I’m at a loss.  I’m going to start a grow log if I can’t get this problem solved in the next round or two, maybe that will help identify my error, if I’m actually making one.  My subs are still producing mushrooms, so I’m not totally out of luck, but I’m having to toss them immediately and I’m losing out on second flush weights, not to mention that it’s driving my OCD absolutely bat shit crazy.

Pics:

100% colonized with no contams:





Colonized, pinning, no contams:





And this is where the contam finally moves in:





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Edited by Ep1429 (01/13/20 07:56 AM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26430741 - 01/13/20 08:40 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Are you using coir?

Let me see your agar.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26430888 - 01/13/20 11:11 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Yes. I am using 100% coir, mixed with the bucket tek.

Here is a pic of a plate I’m going to use next week, taken from the bottom of the plate. You can see where I cooled down the scalpel on the left side, and some of the particulate floating in the MEA agar. It looks f’ing clean to me, but this whole scenario has me pissed off, so maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t think so.



Edit: I’ll post more agar pics when I get home after work.


--------------------


Edited by Ep1429 (01/13/20 11:14 AM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26430943 - 01/13/20 11:42 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Yea that pic looks clean. But Im interested to see the others.

It really has to be your spawn, we just have to figure out what step of the process.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Offline1uptoadstool
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26431500 - 01/13/20 04:38 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

It could be the coir you're using. I had 4 tubs mold on me using a certain brand of coir I forget what brand because this was years ago


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26431817 - 01/13/20 07:30 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Yea that pic looks clean. But Im interested to see the others.

It really has to be your spawn, we just have to figure out what step of the process.




I’m going to use these two plates as well.



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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26431824 - 01/13/20 07:33 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
It could be the coir you're using. I had 4 tubs mold on me using a certain brand of coir I forget what brand because this was years ago




Possible, I guess. I hope I’m doing something wrong, because I can fix that. If the available materials aren’t adequate, it makes thing difficult.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26432630 - 01/14/20 08:18 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Lets see some top views of the plates too.

Then seeing the colonized jars is the next step


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #26434325 - 01/15/20 06:53 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Lets see some top views of the plates too.

Then seeing the colonized jars is the next step




Those were the top views of the plates.

Obviously I will have to wait before I have colonized jars with them, but here are four pint jars I have colonized using transfers from the same culture.  They look healthy to me.



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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26434408 - 01/15/20 08:33 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

They dont look horrible. But that mycelium looks a little stressed.

Let me see a plate in normal light then

Maybe you arent pressure cooking the grain long enough. Could be worth going the full two hours if you arent already.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineTheStallionMangS
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26434428 - 01/15/20 08:58 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26434614 - 01/15/20 11:59 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
They dont look horrible. But that mycelium looks a little stressed.

Let me see a plate in normal light then

Maybe you arent pressure cooking the grain long enough. Could be worth going the full two hours if you arent already.




Nope, I pressure cook for 2 hours.

Have to wait until I get home tonight for normal light plates.

What do you mean by the mycelium looking stressed?  It looks the same as all the other jars I’ve done.


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26435205 - 01/15/20 05:53 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Here are normal light pics of plates.



And I had it happen again.  I posted a pic of these shoeboxes in the OP, they pinned yesterday, and one of them bloomed trich today.  50%, just like every attempt I’ve made in the last four months.



^^^^ That was the first pic in the OP under 100% colonized with no contams.  58 hours ago.



Both of those came from the same agar plate, both were made the same day, and they have sat side by side ever since.


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OfflineHolyBolete
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26436067 - 01/16/20 06:22 AM (4 months, 12 days ago)

Throw out everything contaminated. Quarantine everything you think is salvageable into a separate room. Clean all surfaces in mushy grow room. Buy an air purifier and clean the air in grow room. Do not re-introduce quarantined grows back into room for at least a week until you are sure they are not contaminated. Start new mush projects/start over.


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OfflineTheStallionMangS
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26436377 - 01/16/20 10:49 AM (4 months, 12 days ago)

That seems like overkill. You can scoop the green out and let it ride for a while. An air purifier won't help your current problem but it might dry your tub out just by moving air around all the time.

There is bacteria and mold floating around and on everything all the time anyway.  You clean your SAB when you're gonna use it but nothing is ever really clean. The whole idea of a SAB is to have the contams resting on the bottom and not floating around your open jars or dishes.
And besides, fruiting isn't a sterile procedure anyway


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OfflineHolyBolete
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #26436921 - 01/16/20 04:34 PM (4 months, 12 days ago)

This apparently has been happening to them over and over again.

The fact that there is aggressive mold getting to multiple grows/subs over and over again means that the mold spore count in the air is quite a bit higher than normal.

Was suggesting first to remove/quarantine and then clean air with purifier (w HEPA filter) which will concretely reduce the higher amount than normal mold in the environment while grows are in a separate room.

You can take a risk and see what happens but more than likely you will get more contamination on new projects until you do something about it.

:marioshroom:


Edited by HolyBolete (01/16/20 04:50 PM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26442674 - 01/20/20 08:11 AM (4 months, 8 days ago)

Those plates look a little weird.

I could tell more if they didnt grow as much.

Sometimes a film of bacteria can grow in line with the mycelium. Its easier to tell on a less than full plate


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26688682 - 05/22/20 06:55 PM (9 days, 6 hours ago)

Ok, updating information.

I’m still dealing with this.  It has been going on for months, and I think I’ve tried everything.

I am having 100% success when using agar to noc up my jars.

I am having virtually 0% success when trying to G2G.  Maybe 1 shoebox out of twenty will go on to fruit.

I have successfully G2G’ed untold numbers of times before this mold problem began, and now I can’t get G2G to work at all.

I have followed all the advice in this thread, quarantines, cleaning, air purifying, the whole 9 yards.

I know my sterile technique is on point, the agar started oat jars are picture perfect and my shoeboxes are yielding between half and 3/4 oz per quart jar on the first flush.

The G2G jars look fine when I break them up.  They come apart with a couple of light raps on the palm of my hand, smell good when I pour them out, and colonize the shoebox with no problems right up until hyphal knotting starts, then the whole thing erupts in green mold and I get no fruits.

I’ve tried 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1 ratios on my shoeboxes, and 1:1 gets to knotting about 4 days faster than 2:1, but they both fail at exactly the same point, when knotting begins.

The last batch of G2G I did, I used a qt jar nocc’ed with agar, and only used half of the qt as a master, the other half of the qt I cased in 100% coir.  The cased grains performed perfectly, the G2G jars all molded before the first flush.

I am a trained scientist.  I’m making agar jars work with no problems.  I cannot figure out where in the world the contams are coming from in my G2G.

Any one have any more suggestions?  This is driving me batty.  I’ve grown dozens of pounds with G2G in the past, and nothing has changed in my procedure.


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OfflineMerryMoose
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26688892 - 05/22/20 08:44 PM (9 days, 5 hours ago)

Are you using the same batch of coir or have you purchased new coir?

I started having similar problems where all my tubs kept stalling, even after pinning in jars, they would stall when I put them in tubs with coir.

Didn't matter how much pasteurizing I did, whatever was in there seemed resistant to heat.

Waiting for new spawn to colonize and trying a different brand of coir this time around.


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OfflineA.k.a
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: MerryMoose]
    #26688909 - 05/22/20 08:53 PM (9 days, 4 hours ago)

It can only be the g2g technique then right?

That’s the only variable if you g2gd half a jar and the original jar grew fine but the receiving jar didn’t.

The other weird thing is green showing up during knots. Usually it would come after the flush.


A few months back chronicr had the same thing. I think it’s the first few pages of the let’s grow some mold thread.

Everything looks great-plates, jars, colonization. But then right at pinning it all would go green.


The only other thing I can think of would be if you’re pcing all the jars at once. Then you inoculate the master while the rest wait for it to colonize. There could be a contam in all of them that doesn’t have time to recover in the jar knocked up right away but gets established in the waiting receiving jars.

Or it could be meshed in the myc and doesn’t activate until hitting grain, and it doesn’t have time to take over the first jar but once it’s introduced into the new jars it’s ready to go.

Have you restarted the whole thing with spores or have you been using a certain clone the whole time?


———-
I just went back and read the whole thread, the spawn jars look pretty bacterial to me as does the myc in some of those tubs.

The yellowish tint and swollen knots is similar to what I see with bacteria too. I think it’s similar to what I said before, the bacteria exists in the master but the myc holds it back then when it’s g2g it can take off enough on the fresh grains to kill the tubs later.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Edited by A.k.a (05/22/20 09:08 PM)


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InvisibleDCAE
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: MerryMoose]
    #26688942 - 05/22/20 09:14 PM (9 days, 4 hours ago)

some brands of coir deliberately mix trichoderma as biofertilizer in their products designed to help plants grow stronger, healthier roots and improve the overall condition of the soil.

ofcourse this offers no help at all for growing fungi

if you are ABSOLUTELY positive your spawn is clean then the coir might be your problem

correct me if im wrong but is not the bucket tek just partial pasteurization?

you might want to look into another brand of coir.
Possibly the ones ment for reptile bedding and not Hydroponics.


Edited by DCAE (05/23/20 12:41 AM)


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: DCAE]
    #26689163 - 05/22/20 11:10 PM (9 days, 2 hours ago)

Coir is the issue. I'm 100% sure.

I recently had my first tub get trich, it was made with just coir, I have not had a single contam otherwise. I think the coir allows 'weak' mycelium to colonize, and is not thick enough to build a strong mycelium, allowing invaders to easily take hold. I don't believe that trich grows well on manure. I had even pasteurized this coir before spawning the tub, even though people say it's not necessary.

For your situation, I'd start incorporating manure into your grows. If you have trich in your jars, you'll see it before spawning. You're getting it from spawning your tubs, it's in the air around you, probably in high amounts. I'm guessing the wood in your grow area has it. If I were you, I'd soak, SOAK everything in a bleach solution spray. Probably 2-3 times over the next 2-3 days to ensure that everything is SOAKED. I would wipe down my jars 2-3 times a day with alcohol or bleach wipes, repeatedly to ensure that I don't miss any spots. I would run an air purifier. I would go way overboard or I would give up basically. No point doing this stuff half assed....Again, incorporate manure. The hardware store sells bags of composted manure that isn't the best, but it'll do the trick, you get fruits that are way more solid and larger than coir fruits. The bacteria in manure that survives pasteurization fights trich well, I think that's why I had never encountered trich on my subs before switching to coir before, the trich was being fought off....correct me if I'm wrong.


--------------------


Keep 'em high and tight guys....


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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26689332 - 05/23/20 12:40 AM (9 days, 1 hour ago)

If you are just seeing it after spawning,    it's in your g2g process. Probably have an unusually high mold spore count where you're storing your masters. Clean the outside of your master jars better. Be sure to get around the rim well before opening the lid.
Assume all your jars that have been g2g are no good. Start with new masters and be diligent about cleaning before g2g


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26689356 - 05/23/20 12:55 AM (9 days, 57 minutes ago)

What brand coir are you using?


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Justweed]
    #26689632 - 05/23/20 05:56 AM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Justweed said:
Coir is the issue. I'm 100% sure.

I recently had my first tub get trich, it was made with just coir, I have not had a single contam otherwise. I think the coir allows 'weak' mycelium to colonize, and is not thick enough to build a strong mycelium, allowing invaders to easily take hold. I don't believe that trich grows well on manure. I had even pasteurized this coir before spawning the tub, even though people say it's not necessary.

For your situation, I'd start incorporating manure into your grows. If you have trich in your jars, you'll see it before spawning. You're getting it from spawning your tubs, it's in the air around you, probably in high amounts. I'm guessing the wood in your grow area has it. If I were you, I'd soak, SOAK everything in a bleach solution spray. Probably 2-3 times over the next 2-3 days to ensure that everything is SOAKED. I would wipe down my jars 2-3 times a day with alcohol or bleach wipes, repeatedly to ensure that I don't miss any spots. I would run an air purifier. I would go way overboard or I would give up basically. No point doing this stuff half assed....Again, incorporate manure. The hardware store sells bags of composted manure that isn't the best, but it'll do the trick, you get fruits that are way more solid and larger than coir fruits. The bacteria in manure that survives pasteurization fights trich well, I think that's why I had never encountered trich on my subs before switching to coir before, the trich was being fought off....correct me if I'm wrong.




I think you are mixing up some correlation and causation

First off, in our applications trich doesnt really grow on coir or manure. It grows on mycelium.  It parasitizes other fungi. It will not grow on a coir doormat, or on coir left out in open air

HOWEVER some brands of coir add live trich myc to their coir, and all coir will have some level of trich spores. Bucket tek should kill it, but in my experience some brands (especially chunkier ones) trich out way too easy even w clean spawn and bucket tek. Other brands dont even require bucket tek

Manure based subs can absolutely contam too. Honestly i wouldnt use manure until you work out the coir issues, coir is way more forgiving and doesnt require proper pasteurization.  And i love manure


All that said, at least 90% of the time the issue is dirty spawn (bad clean tek, etc)


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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: MerryMoose]
    #26691870 - 05/24/20 08:11 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

MerryMoose said:
Are you using the same batch of coir or have you purchased new coir?

I started having similar problems where all my tubs kept stalling, even after pinning in jars, they would stall when I put them in tubs with coir.

Didn't matter how much pasteurizing I did, whatever was in there seemed resistant to heat.

Waiting for new spawn to colonize and trying a different brand of coir this time around.



Quote:

MerryMoose said:
Are you using the same batch of coir or have you purchased new coir?

I started having similar problems where all my tubs kept stalling, even after pinning in jars, they would stall when I put them in tubs with coir.

Didn't matter how much pasteurizing I did, whatever was in there seemed resistant to heat.

Waiting for new spawn to colonize and trying a different brand of coir this time around.




I have tried two brands of coir.  The EcoEarth, and the brand Walmart sells in their Garden Center.


--------------------


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: A.k.a]
    #26691876 - 05/24/20 08:19 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
It can only be the g2g technique then right?

That’s the only variable if you g2gd half a jar and the original jar grew fine but the receiving jar didn’t.

The other weird thing is green showing up during knots. Usually it would come after the flush.


A few months back chronicr had the same thing. I think it’s the first few pages of the let’s grow some mold thread.

Everything looks great-plates, jars, colonization. But then right at pinning it all would go green.


The only other thing I can think of would be if you’re pcing all the jars at once. Then you inoculate the master while the rest wait for it to colonize. There could be a contam in all of them that doesn’t have time to recover in the jar knocked up right away but gets established in the waiting receiving jars.

Or it could be meshed in the myc and doesn’t activate until hitting grain, and it doesn’t have time to take over the first jar but once it’s introduced into the new jars it’s ready to go.

Have you restarted the whole thing with spores or have you been using a certain clone the whole time?


———-
I just went back and read the whole thread, the spawn jars look pretty bacterial to me as does the myc in some of those tubs.

The yellowish tint and swollen knots is similar to what I see with bacteria too. I think it’s similar to what I said before, the bacteria exists in the master but the myc holds it back then when it’s g2g it can take off enough on the fresh grains to kill the tubs later.





I went all the way back to spores to try to fix this.  Which is a mixed bag, because the genetics I got on this go from spores produce mushrooms which are a lot stronger, and I mean a LOT stronger, than the genetics I’ve gotten the last two times I started from spores, but the yield is down per qt jar.

As for jar prep, I am not preparing more oats until the master jar is fully colonized.  I don’t let jars sit for more than a day before using them.

I’ve tried dryer oats in the jars, I’ve boiled them until ~20% burst as well.  The water content of the oats doesn’t seem to matter.  The mold still comes at knotting.

And even the G2G jars appear healthy when I break them up.  If they were bacterial, they’d smell like Satan’s @$$hole when I cracked the lid.

And it can’t be environmental, since the agar jars flush twice before I start to see problems.

I have wracked my brain trying to figure this out, and I’m completely stumped.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: DCAE]
    #26691879 - 05/24/20 08:20 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

DCAE said:
some brands of coir deliberately mix trichoderma as biofertilizer in their products designed to help plants grow stronger, healthier roots and improve the overall condition of the soil.

ofcourse this offers no help at all for growing fungi

if you are ABSOLUTELY positive your spawn is clean then the coir might be your problem

correct me if im wrong but is not the bucket tek just partial pasteurization?

you might want to look into another brand of coir.
Possibly the ones ment for reptile bedding and not Hydroponics.




I’m using the EcoEarth reptile bedding coir.  It has worked for me flawlessly in the past, so unless they started adding something, I’m leaning towards the contams being my fault.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26691885 - 05/24/20 08:25 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
Quote:

Justweed said:
Coir is the issue. I'm 100% sure.

I recently had my first tub get trich, it was made with just coir, I have not had a single contam otherwise. I think the coir allows 'weak' mycelium to colonize, and is not thick enough to build a strong mycelium, allowing invaders to easily take hold. I don't believe that trich grows well on manure. I had even pasteurized this coir before spawning the tub, even though people say it's not necessary.

For your situation, I'd start incorporating manure into your grows. If you have trich in your jars, you'll see it before spawning. You're getting it from spawning your tubs, it's in the air around you, probably in high amounts. I'm guessing the wood in your grow area has it. If I were you, I'd soak, SOAK everything in a bleach solution spray. Probably 2-3 times over the next 2-3 days to ensure that everything is SOAKED. I would wipe down my jars 2-3 times a day with alcohol or bleach wipes, repeatedly to ensure that I don't miss any spots. I would run an air purifier. I would go way overboard or I would give up basically. No point doing this stuff half assed....Again, incorporate manure. The hardware store sells bags of composted manure that isn't the best, but it'll do the trick, you get fruits that are way more solid and larger than coir fruits. The bacteria in manure that survives pasteurization fights trich well, I think that's why I had never encountered trich on my subs before switching to coir before, the trich was being fought off....correct me if I'm wrong.




I think you are mixing up some correlation and causation

First off, in our applications trich doesnt really grow on coir or manure. It grows on mycelium.  It parasitizes other fungi. It will not grow on a coir doormat, or on coir left out in open air

HOWEVER some brands of coir add live trich myc to their coir, and all coir will have some level of trich spores. Bucket tek should kill it, but in my experience some brands (especially chunkier ones) trich out way too easy even w clean spawn and bucket tek. Other brands dont even require bucket tek

Manure based subs can absolutely contam too. Honestly i wouldnt use manure until you work out the coir issues, coir is way more forgiving and doesnt require proper pasteurization.  And i love manure


All that said, at least 90% of the time the issue is dirty spawn (bad clean tek, etc)




If it were the coir, I’d be seeing the same problem with the agar jars.  Ditto if it were mold counts in the air.  The lid is off the jar roughly the same amount of time it takes to drop a wedge in as it is to pour some grains in.

And my sterile technique has been fine in the past.  That’s what I don’t get.  I’m not a noob who has never made this work, I’ve got grow logs on the site where my G2G goes just fine.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Anastomosis]
    #26691889 - 05/24/20 08:27 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Anastomosis said:
If you are just seeing it after spawning,    it's in your g2g process. Probably have an unusually high mold spore count where you're storing your masters. Clean the outside of your master jars better. Be sure to get around the rim well before opening the lid.
Assume all your jars that have been g2g are no good. Start with new masters and be diligent about cleaning before g2g




I do assume my G2G jars are all bad.  In fact, I just ordered 500 Petri dishes because I can’t trust G2G and need to start everything on agar to be sure the spawn is clean.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26691932 - 05/24/20 08:50 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

Man, this sounds rough. But at least it makes for a good thread; I do love mysteries and problem solving.

Have you tried setting up your SAB in a different location for your G2G work, if that's an option?

Is there ANYTHING you can think of that changed about your G2G procedure? Anything at all?

Have you considered a flowhood?


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26691955 - 05/24/20 09:02 AM (7 days, 16 hours ago)

But the difference between a2g and g2g jars is that if the mold is meshed in the culture it gets way more time to grow when you do g2g. With a2g it gets like two weeks and is competing with myc from the start so it doesn’t get far and the jars are ok.

But if you take the jar and spread it out with g2g then the mold or whatever gets to grow for another two weeks before hitting coir.

I’m thinking like a rabbit and the hare thing.

Say the contam moves much faster than the myc but it takes 10 days to germinate. In the agar jar by the time the contam germs at day 10 the myc has claimed most of the grains. But then when you g2g it in the second jars there’s no 10 day period so it can move right away and claims way more real estate in those jars.


That’s the only thing that I can think of that explains it.


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Edited by A.k.a (05/24/20 09:04 AM)


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26691973 - 05/24/20 09:17 AM (7 days, 16 hours ago)

I had this same problem many years ago when I was first making the jump from cakes to grains. After a few failed attempts I decided to stick with what works. All my spawn is still A2G. Instead of increasing colonization speed, I make another batch of jars and have more new spawn every few days.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: A.k.a]
    #26692092 - 05/24/20 10:32 AM (7 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
But the difference between a2g and g2g jars is that if the mold is meshed in the culture it gets way more time to grow when you do g2g. With a2g it gets like two weeks and is competing with myc from the start so it doesn’t get far and the jars are ok.

But if you take the jar and spread it out with g2g then the mold or whatever gets to grow for another two weeks before hitting coir.

I’m thinking like a rabbit and the hare thing.

Say the contam moves much faster than the myc but it takes 10 days to germinate. In the agar jar by the time the contam germs at day 10 the myc has claimed most of the grains. But then when you g2g it in the second jars there’s no 10 day period so it can move right away and claims way more real estate in those jars.


That’s the only thing that I can think of that explains it.






The thing is, I’m almost certain the agar is clean. I’m not storing this culture in the fridge. When the plate is ready, I transfer away from it, then cut the wedge and drop it. I’m on transfer 6 on three separate clones I took from the first spore restart flush. It’s gotta be clean by now.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26692102 - 05/24/20 10:35 AM (7 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
I had this same problem many years ago when I was first making the jump from cakes to grains. After a few failed attempts I decided to stick with what works. All my spawn is still A2G. Instead of increasing colonization speed, I make another batch of jars and have more new spawn every few days.




That’s exactly where I’m at. I am only counting on the A2G to work, but I’m an OCD type person, and I can’t leave the G2G problem alone. It bugs me subconsciously.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26692150 - 05/24/20 10:57 AM (7 days, 14 hours ago)

I'm just going to throw this out there..and I might get flamed for it. I'd try switching your bulk sub to straw/hpoo/verm...properly pasteurized. I know plenty of people swear by coir and do very...very well with it. I know some people have issues with how they prepare it. Some people swear by the bucket tech...some properly pasturize it..I've even heard of one person who had nothing but contams with coir until he sterilized it. Me personally I've had terrible experiences with coir..and nothing and I mean nothing but good experiences with straw/hpoo/verm.

This is of course asssuming you are 100 percent sure your spawn is clean...but it sounds like you have that under control for the most part.

Maybe try one tub G2G to straw/hpoo/verm and see what happens...


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: lateforthafuture]
    #26692314 - 05/24/20 12:15 PM (7 days, 13 hours ago)

That parent plate dosent look clean to me. From the previous post. It looks like it has a contamination.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Sockadin]
    #26692570 - 05/24/20 02:30 PM (7 days, 11 hours ago)

Just wanna get this in my Threads. Interested to see how things shake out. Have you tried praying?  :chase:


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Sockadin]
    #26692955 - 05/24/20 05:44 PM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
That parent plate dosent look clean to me. From the previous post. It looks like it has a contamination.




Well, it is possible since I opened it up and cut a big chuck out of it five days ago then never wrapped it back up.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26692956 - 05/24/20 05:45 PM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:
Just wanna get this in my Threads. Interested to see how things shake out. Have you tried praying?  :chase:




Sacrificed a goat and everything.


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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: lateforthafuture]
    #26692966 - 05/24/20 05:49 PM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

lateforthafuture said:
I'm just going to throw this out there..and I might get flamed for it. I'd try switching your bulk sub to straw/hpoo/verm...properly pasteurized. I know plenty of people swear by coir and do very...very well with it. I know some people have issues with how they prepare it. Some people swear by the bucket tech...some properly pasturize it..I've even heard of one person who had nothing but contams with coir until he sterilized it. Me personally I've had terrible experiences with coir..and nothing and I mean nothing but good experiences with straw/hpoo/verm.

This is of course asssuming you are 100 percent sure your spawn is clean...but it sounds like you have that under control for the most part.

Maybe try one tub G2G to straw/hpoo/verm and see what happens...




If it were the coir, the A2G would have the same problems.

That was one of the first things I tried.

I even put mixed coir into qt jars and pressure cooked it for 90 minutes at 15 PSI. 

I’ve ruled out passive environmental contamination.  It has to be something to do with my technique, but I’m doing the same thing that has always worked in the past.

The only thing I have left to try is going back to metal lids.  I’ve been using the Ball Leak Proof plastic lids because they’re superior in terms of handling and manufacture, and I initially thought that they were warping in the PC after a number of uses, but I bought new ones and still had the same problem.

Though I did discover that the black Ball Leak Proof plastic lids are worth buying over the white Mainstay plastic lids at Walmart.


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