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OfflineEp1429
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Green mold, out of ideas
    #26430715 - 01/13/20 07:44 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

For the last four months I’ve been fighting a green mold that moves in on my subs once they have started pinning. It started right after Halloween. I’ll get a beautiful pin set with zero sign of contams, they’ll get about an inch tall, and then I’ll get green mold in a spot the size of a penny on the top of the sub.

I was using g2g when this started, and thought it was my SAB technique that was bad, even though I’ve been doing this for over a year with zero problems.  So I bought a new 200 qt tub and made a new SAB with more room, to cut down on the possibility of me hitting the walls inside while working with the jars and shaking free contams that way.

Didn’t help.  Same issue.  The next couple of rounds of jars seemed clean, broke apart with a couple of light hits from just the bottom of my hand, smelled fine, I mean, there weren’t even clumps of colonized mycelium when I poured them into the tubs, every grain separated easily from every other grain.  The subs colonized fully and began pinning after 10 days, like they should, but again, once the pins get about an inch tall and the dreaded green spot appears.

So I switched to starting all of my jars with agar wedges.  I started a round of jars with agar colonized by a fresh spore print I created.  Same results.  Now I’m transferring from an existing culture that has produced clean results many times in the past, and I’m inspecting each plate before I use it.  The jars are colonizing fine, breaking up fine, smell good, the subs colonize fully and get a good pin set, and the pins still get that inch of growth before the mold sets in.

The next step was to stop using big tubs and go with shoeboxes, where each shoebox gets its own quart jar of spawn, in an attempt to isolate the contaminated jars from the non contaminated ones and not ruin big monotubs.  After a month of this, I’m still getting half of my subs contaminated in this manner.

I have legit run out of ideas here.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I don’t know of any mistakes I am making with my sterile technique, and since I’m getting 100% colonization on my subs and a good pin set before the outbreak, I’m beginning to wonder if the spawn is clean and the cause could be environmental?  Perhaps condensation dripping from the lids is providing an infection vector? 

I’m at a loss.  I’m going to start a grow log if I can’t get this problem solved in the next round or two, maybe that will help identify my error, if I’m actually making one.  My subs are still producing mushrooms, so I’m not totally out of luck, but I’m having to toss them immediately and I’m losing out on second flush weights, not to mention that it’s driving my OCD absolutely bat shit crazy.

Pics:

100% colonized with no contams:





Colonized, pinning, no contams:





And this is where the contam finally moves in:





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Edited by Ep1429 (01/13/20 07:56 AM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26430741 - 01/13/20 08:40 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Are you using coir?

Let me see your agar.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26430888 - 01/13/20 11:11 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Yes. I am using 100% coir, mixed with the bucket tek.

Here is a pic of a plate I’m going to use next week, taken from the bottom of the plate. You can see where I cooled down the scalpel on the left side, and some of the particulate floating in the MEA agar. It looks f’ing clean to me, but this whole scenario has me pissed off, so maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t think so.



Edit: I’ll post more agar pics when I get home after work.


--------------------


Edited by Ep1429 (01/13/20 11:14 AM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26430943 - 01/13/20 11:42 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Yea that pic looks clean. But Im interested to see the others.

It really has to be your spawn, we just have to figure out what step of the process.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Offline1uptoadstool
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26431500 - 01/13/20 04:38 PM (4 months, 16 days ago)

It could be the coir you're using. I had 4 tubs mold on me using a certain brand of coir I forget what brand because this was years ago


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26431817 - 01/13/20 07:30 PM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Yea that pic looks clean. But Im interested to see the others.

It really has to be your spawn, we just have to figure out what step of the process.




I’m going to use these two plates as well.



--------------------


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26431824 - 01/13/20 07:33 PM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
It could be the coir you're using. I had 4 tubs mold on me using a certain brand of coir I forget what brand because this was years ago




Possible, I guess. I hope I’m doing something wrong, because I can fix that. If the available materials aren’t adequate, it makes thing difficult.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26432630 - 01/14/20 08:18 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Lets see some top views of the plates too.

Then seeing the colonized jars is the next step


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #26434325 - 01/15/20 06:53 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Lets see some top views of the plates too.

Then seeing the colonized jars is the next step




Those were the top views of the plates.

Obviously I will have to wait before I have colonized jars with them, but here are four pint jars I have colonized using transfers from the same culture.  They look healthy to me.



--------------------


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26434408 - 01/15/20 08:33 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

They dont look horrible. But that mycelium looks a little stressed.

Let me see a plate in normal light then

Maybe you arent pressure cooking the grain long enough. Could be worth going the full two hours if you arent already.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineTheStallionMangS
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26434428 - 01/15/20 08:58 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26434614 - 01/15/20 11:59 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
They dont look horrible. But that mycelium looks a little stressed.

Let me see a plate in normal light then

Maybe you arent pressure cooking the grain long enough. Could be worth going the full two hours if you arent already.




Nope, I pressure cook for 2 hours.

Have to wait until I get home tonight for normal light plates.

What do you mean by the mycelium looking stressed?  It looks the same as all the other jars I’ve done.


--------------------


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26435205 - 01/15/20 05:53 PM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Here are normal light pics of plates.



And I had it happen again.  I posted a pic of these shoeboxes in the OP, they pinned yesterday, and one of them bloomed trich today.  50%, just like every attempt I’ve made in the last four months.



^^^^ That was the first pic in the OP under 100% colonized with no contams.  58 hours ago.



Both of those came from the same agar plate, both were made the same day, and they have sat side by side ever since.


--------------------


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OfflineHolyBolete
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26436067 - 01/16/20 06:22 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Throw out everything contaminated. Quarantine everything you think is salvageable into a separate room. Clean all surfaces in mushy grow room. Buy an air purifier and clean the air in grow room. Do not re-introduce quarantined grows back into room for at least a week until you are sure they are not contaminated. Start new mush projects/start over.


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OfflineTheStallionMangS
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26436377 - 01/16/20 10:49 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

That seems like overkill. You can scoop the green out and let it ride for a while. An air purifier won't help your current problem but it might dry your tub out just by moving air around all the time.

There is bacteria and mold floating around and on everything all the time anyway.  You clean your SAB when you're gonna use it but nothing is ever really clean. The whole idea of a SAB is to have the contams resting on the bottom and not floating around your open jars or dishes.
And besides, fruiting isn't a sterile procedure anyway


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OfflineHolyBolete
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #26436921 - 01/16/20 04:34 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

This apparently has been happening to them over and over again.

The fact that there is aggressive mold getting to multiple grows/subs over and over again means that the mold spore count in the air is quite a bit higher than normal.

Was suggesting first to remove/quarantine and then clean air with purifier (w HEPA filter) which will concretely reduce the higher amount than normal mold in the environment while grows are in a separate room.

You can take a risk and see what happens but more than likely you will get more contamination on new projects until you do something about it.

:marioshroom:


Edited by HolyBolete (01/16/20 04:50 PM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: HolyBolete]
    #26442674 - 01/20/20 08:11 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

Those plates look a little weird.

I could tell more if they didnt grow as much.

Sometimes a film of bacteria can grow in line with the mycelium. Its easier to tell on a less than full plate


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26688682 - 05/22/20 06:55 PM (10 days, 16 hours ago)

Ok, updating information.

I’m still dealing with this.  It has been going on for months, and I think I’ve tried everything.

I am having 100% success when using agar to noc up my jars.

I am having virtually 0% success when trying to G2G.  Maybe 1 shoebox out of twenty will go on to fruit.

I have successfully G2G’ed untold numbers of times before this mold problem began, and now I can’t get G2G to work at all.

I have followed all the advice in this thread, quarantines, cleaning, air purifying, the whole 9 yards.

I know my sterile technique is on point, the agar started oat jars are picture perfect and my shoeboxes are yielding between half and 3/4 oz per quart jar on the first flush.

The G2G jars look fine when I break them up.  They come apart with a couple of light raps on the palm of my hand, smell good when I pour them out, and colonize the shoebox with no problems right up until hyphal knotting starts, then the whole thing erupts in green mold and I get no fruits.

I’ve tried 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1 ratios on my shoeboxes, and 1:1 gets to knotting about 4 days faster than 2:1, but they both fail at exactly the same point, when knotting begins.

The last batch of G2G I did, I used a qt jar nocc’ed with agar, and only used half of the qt as a master, the other half of the qt I cased in 100% coir.  The cased grains performed perfectly, the G2G jars all molded before the first flush.

I am a trained scientist.  I’m making agar jars work with no problems.  I cannot figure out where in the world the contams are coming from in my G2G.

Any one have any more suggestions?  This is driving me batty.  I’ve grown dozens of pounds with G2G in the past, and nothing has changed in my procedure.


--------------------


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OfflineMerryMoose
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: Ep1429]
    #26688892 - 05/22/20 08:44 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

Are you using the same batch of coir or have you purchased new coir?

I started having similar problems where all my tubs kept stalling, even after pinning in jars, they would stall when I put them in tubs with coir.

Didn't matter how much pasteurizing I did, whatever was in there seemed resistant to heat.

Waiting for new spawn to colonize and trying a different brand of coir this time around.


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OnlineA.k.a
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Re: Green mold, out of ideas [Re: MerryMoose]
    #26688909 - 05/22/20 08:53 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

It can only be the g2g technique then right?

That’s the only variable if you g2gd half a jar and the original jar grew fine but the receiving jar didn’t.

The other weird thing is green showing up during knots. Usually it would come after the flush.


A few months back chronicr had the same thing. I think it’s the first few pages of the let’s grow some mold thread.

Everything looks great-plates, jars, colonization. But then right at pinning it all would go green.


The only other thing I can think of would be if you’re pcing all the jars at once. Then you inoculate the master while the rest wait for it to colonize. There could be a contam in all of them that doesn’t have time to recover in the jar knocked up right away but gets established in the waiting receiving jars.

Or it could be meshed in the myc and doesn’t activate until hitting grain, and it doesn’t have time to take over the first jar but once it’s introduced into the new jars it’s ready to go.

Have you restarted the whole thing with spores or have you been using a certain clone the whole time?


———-
I just went back and read the whole thread, the spawn jars look pretty bacterial to me as does the myc in some of those tubs.

The yellowish tint and swollen knots is similar to what I see with bacteria too. I think it’s similar to what I said before, the bacteria exists in the master but the myc holds it back then when it’s g2g it can take off enough on the fresh grains to kill the tubs later.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Edited by A.k.a (05/22/20 09:08 PM)


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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