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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
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Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today
    #26429308 - 01/12/20 08:43 AM (4 years, 17 days ago)

or before? Say 50 years back.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26430599 - 01/13/20 02:01 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

This is a touchy subject that I'd bet 3/4 of this website can't touch with a 10 yard pole without accusing anyone that speaks factually as being "Sexist".

Therefore, I'm sitting this one out, kids, lol.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 3
    #26431107 - 01/13/20 11:27 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

By a lot of metrics they're better off, but that doesn't mean they are happier. I don't think happiness is a metric that moves much.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Rahz]
    #26431145 - 01/13/20 11:49 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Women have it better today for economic power and having sexual assault claims taken seriously. Women with a more traditional mindset who don't mind being subjugated to a man may prefer the earlier social structure.

But as Rahz said, happiness can be elusive, and people expect more today, which often leads to disappointment.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26431609 - 01/13/20 03:23 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

They have it much better in terms of equality and the ability to be independent.

Also perception.
50 years ago a single independent woman would have probably been frowned upon.

Although that's actually only what, 1970?

So idk...
Things were happening for women around that time.

Girls nowadays can get really fit, take a few pictures and become highly successful Instagram models.

Wasnt possible 50 years ago. :lol: :shrug:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: hTx]
    #26431616 - 01/13/20 03:27 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Well Hysteria was cured so that’s good...

Of course women have it better lol. Husbands used to be able to legally rape their wives! It used to be legal to fire women for being pregnant or non-married. Etc.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: feldman114]
    #26431769 - 01/13/20 05:02 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

from Ursula K LeGuin's The Wave in the Mind
I am a man. Now you may think I’ve made some kind of silly mistake about gender, or maybe that I’m trying to fool you, because my first name ends in a, and I own three bras, and I’ve been pregnant five times, and other things like that that you might have noticed, little details. But details don’t matter. If we have anything to learn from politicians it’s that details don’t matter. I am a man, and I want you to believe and accept this as a fact, just as I did for many years.
You see, when I was growing up at the time of the Wars of the Medes and Persians and when I went to college just after the Hundred Years War and when I was bringing up my children during the Korean, Cold, and Vietnam Wars, there were no women. Women are a very recent invention. I predate the invention of women by decades. Well, if you insist on pedantic accuracy, women have been invented several times in widely varying localities, but the inventors just didn’t know how to sell the product...




it would suggest that the whole idea of being a woman is quite new, and it would be astonishing if we got something like that right after just a few decades.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26432340 - 01/13/20 10:52 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Better off yes, happier probably no. I think both sexes aren’t necessarily at the pinnacle of happiness right now.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26432362 - 01/13/20 11:09 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Better protections and law.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: CountHTML]
    #26432477 - 01/14/20 01:52 AM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

CountHTML said:
Better off yes, happier probably no.




--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: feldman114]
    #26433001 - 01/14/20 11:22 AM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Well Hysteria was cured so that’s good...

Of course women have it better lol. Husbands used to be able to legally rape their wives! It used to be legal to fire women for being pregnant or non-married. Etc.




I know. They really should change the word hysterectomy. How rude is that.
I remember movies made in the 40's and 50's where men would fairly routinely slap women to calm them down.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlineqman
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26433920 - 01/14/20 08:19 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

CountHTML said:
Better off yes, happier probably no.







Yes, independent successful women are usually the most miserable people I have seen. Many times they're single and can't find a man that's good enough in their minds. They get into relationship after relationship looking for something they usually can never find.

They're conflicted with their independence and the desire to have a family and children. Many times their indecision leads to growing old without any children at all.

Many times the traditional woman that seeks a family without all the independence has a much more fulfilling life and more overall happiness. I know that's the exact opposite of what the "modern woman" has been taught, but that's usually the reality of the situation.

You can't change millions of years of biological evolution with 50 years of a social movement and have decent success, humans don't work in that manner.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: qman] * 1
    #26434431 - 01/15/20 07:04 AM (4 years, 14 days ago)

yes they do, often in less than 50 years you can have several meaningful revolutions, and we have had that.

the analysis here is way too thin.

first the baseline of having it "good enough" has to be considered:
had life not been good enough before farming, we would not have got to the oppressive social structures that farming and feudalism enabled which we may not have had before (though this is not really 100% clear - as 'oppressive' social orders are observed even in groups of monkeys)

some individuals will suffer even in the best conditions, and others will thrive even in the worst.

our era presents more options than ever before, even if accessing these options is not easy, people can find their way in life to greater variety and satisfaction than ever. Both males and females.

that said, miss grumpypants is not necessarily going to show any satisfaction even if driving a Rolls Royce to her Central Park office where she makes 20 million dollars a year in consulting fees. But that is not because she has it worse, the only thing she may have worse is the extent of her grumpy display which seems to work professionally, and she may come to believe it is real - "oh, woe is me!"


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: qman]
    #26434475 - 01/15/20 07:55 AM (4 years, 14 days ago)

The independent successful women I knew were professors. Most weren't married and none had children.  Going for tenure after a PhD and a postdoc, makes it relatively impossible to have a family (for a female). They were doing what they wanted to do.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26434480 - 01/15/20 07:59 AM (4 years, 14 days ago)

The only fundamental change was giving women (almost) the same freedoms as men. Whether or not that makes all women happier, it’s definitely good for women in general.

No one is shaming conservative women who choose to stay home. Nothing changed for them. Ironically though, they’re the only ones complaining about the changes.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26439498 - 01/18/20 01:55 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
The only fundamental change was giving women (almost) the same freedoms as men. Whether or not that makes all women happier, it’s definitely good for women in general.

No one is shaming conservative women who choose to stay home. Nothing changed for them. Ironically though, they’re the only ones complaining about the changes.




Actually people are shaming them, its not that uncommon for feminist women to shame traditional women in one way or another. And while conservative women may be the ones complaining, that may be because many young women don't always connect their unhappiness to the social changes that have occurred over the past 50 years. If you spoil your kids, they probably won't complain about it but that doesn't mean it won't negatively effect them.  Take my sister for example, she is a big proponent of women's rights and has really bought into the women's oppression narrative. She spent her 20s working toward a phd and casually dating a guy who didn't want kids. Now she is 33 and all of a sudden decided she wants kids but can't find a suitable man and is very lonely. Perhaps she would be happier in a more traditional society. However, I doubt she would ever come to that conclusion. Life is so complex that there are a myriad of other factors she can blame her difficulties on, but it does seem a lot of women (and men) are now struggling to find that sense of fulfillment that comes from marriage and family.

I have read that women are overall less happy than they were 50 years ago.  Assuming that's true, have the changes really been that good for them? I mean how do you define "good" here?


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26439800 - 01/18/20 07:53 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

are all women worried about what others are thinking?
are all men?

we all have it easier in many ways now, but this concern of what others may think is worse than ever, even though nowadays we can do more of what we like freely, we tend to conform to the norm more than exploring our new freedoms.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMr. D Green
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26439884 - 01/18/20 09:10 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Different picture, same story..


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Mr. D Green]
    #26445532 - 01/22/20 01:50 AM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Of course in many ways better off,
but in no way does the USA at present have equality for women;
unequal wages for the same job being one issue.

also well to remember, the ground lost due to the rise of the 'religious' right,
and the really sad declines under Trump.

....This country actually has dragged its feet historically, every time any group needed better rights protection: child labor, women's right to vote, the list goes on and on.
....Surprisingly many actually believe all the myths they were taught in Elementary school.
So much so that Bush could get away with saying we were "exporting democracy" to Iraq just a few years back.
This country is so fucking dumb, (loosely speaking), even minor 'progress' means one is still surrounded, by what might as well be quite hypnotized folks, which is probably true of most, but not all, counties, and I imagine most don't have the level of arrogant certainty that they are the best.

And as regards the world, sadly many countries are a real horror for women.
Others in Europe are much more civilized as regards maternity leave.

That's about all I think I know on the subject.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Do you think women in their 20's - 30's had it better today [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26445837 - 01/22/20 08:41 AM (4 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
or before? Say 50 years back.





what do you think OP?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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