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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26426673 - 01/10/20 02:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Really interesting thread by a company called bellingcat.
Ah yes, Bellingcat. The company that got caught...
- make believing Anatoliy Chepiga was a Hero of Russia - make believing the OPCW scandal wasn't real - make believing that The Association for Investment in Popular Action Committees is an "an Assad lobbying group"
They were already called out by Robert Parry and Craig Murray as being a highly questionable source.
It makes perfect sense that our king of make believe would love a company so dedicated to make believe.
But I often argue we should look at the data itself, not the source of the data. Did Bellingcat find any interesting data? The link you provided has people saying how "incredibly frustrating" these photos are as they don't prove anything.
Nobody expects them to be popular with propagandists like yourself
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: koods] 1
#26426689 - 01/10/20 02:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Propagandists are the ones who hate make believe?
I'll say it again:
"We should look at the data itself, not the source of the data. Did Bellingcat find any interesting data?"
Well, did they?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26426691 - 01/10/20 02:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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They looked at social media posts. Verified images using things like google maps. Wtf are you talking about?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: koods]
#26426694 - 01/10/20 02:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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No propagandists fabricate quotes because they think the ends justify the means
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: koods] 1
#26426722 - 01/10/20 03:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, let's look at the examples I provided above to see if Bellingcat pushed fake news or not, starting with the first point:
Bellingcat said Anatoliy Chepiga was a Hero of the Soviet Union.
I pointed out that the only Chepiga who was a Hero of the Soviet Union is Yuri Chepiga (who died in 1991 at age 73). I also pointed out that Anatoly Chepiga has a Wikipedia page, which states that Bellingcat gave that title to him, not the Soviet Union.
Do you have evidence that he IS a Hero of the Soviet Union?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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feldman114
Stragler


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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26426736 - 01/10/20 03:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hero of the solviet union isn’t a title. It’s a medal/award with no solid requirements. Literally thousands exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_the_Soviet_Union
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: feldman114] 2
#26426744 - 01/10/20 03:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, I included a link to the actual names in my post, which you obviously didn't bother clicking on.
Do YOU have evidence that Anatoliy Chepiga is a Hero of the Soviet Union? I provided evidence that he is not.
Or are you competing with koods for the King of Make Believe title?
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feldman114
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26426750 - 01/10/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol I can’t believe you said that. You seemed rational before... Should I explain why it’s impossible to prove a negative statement?
Also, where did they specify he received the medal? But more importantly, How could you (or anyone on this Earth) know that he DIDNT receive one?
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1uptoadstool
procrastinator



Registered: 09/01/19
Posts: 324
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26426790 - 01/10/20 03:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: What about using drones to murder people at will without a trial or anything? Isn't that a war crime?
What about using the drone to circle back and murder first responders? Isn't that a war crime?
Obama should have his peace prize rescinded.
I remember reading that the number of civilians killed was getting so high that he ordered the military to stop reporting it
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: feldman114] 2
#26426792 - 01/10/20 03:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: Lol I can’t believe you said that. You seemed rational before... Should I explain why it’s impossible to prove a negative statement?
Do you really think it's impossible to prove that the Detroit Lions have never won a Super Bowl?
Quote:
feldman114 said: Also, where did they specify he received the medal? But more importantly, How could you (or anyone on this Earth) know that he DIDNT receive one?
The same way we know the Detroit Lions never won a super bowl. We look at a list of who did win, and if he's not on the list, then he didn't.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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1uptoadstool
procrastinator



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: koods]
#26426805 - 01/10/20 03:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Trump started this by violating the Iran nuclear deal. It is entirely his fault.
Anyone who can’t see that trump has been beating the war drums since he got elected is blind
they never should of got the nuclear deal in the first place
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: koods] 2
#26426825 - 01/10/20 04:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: They looked at social media posts. Verified images using things like google maps. Wtf are you talking about?
What did social media posts and images show? Your Twitter link only said "Still unverified, and still going to be very hard to geolocate it based on what's visible in the image."
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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feldman114
Stragler


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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26426846 - 01/10/20 04:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
feldman114 said: Lol I can’t believe you said that. You seemed rational before... Should I explain why it’s impossible to prove a negative statement?
Do you really think it's impossible to prove that the Detroit Lions have never won a Super Bowl?
Quote:
feldman114 said: Also, where did they specify he received the medal? But more importantly, How could you (or anyone on this Earth) know that he DIDNT receive one?
The same way we know the Detroit Lions never won a super bowl. We look at a list of who did win, and if he's not on the list, then he didn't.
You’re comparing a televised event that happened a handful of times to a medal given to 10,000+ people in the USSR. Not Russia. The USSR, where records were destroyed and fabricated to suit the party’s needs. The USSR where records were kept on paper until the country SEIZED TO EXIST, which is why it’s impossible to prove THIS negative.
You are correct in that, outside of philosophical and scientific discussion, a negative can be proven. I was wrong and you were right. (See how easy that was?)
Btw, good job attacking the argument and not the person, as you implore koods to do. Yes...we are make believe kings...hilarious & super original.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: feldman114] 3
#26426867 - 01/10/20 04:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: You’re comparing a televised event that happened a handful of times to a medal given to 10,000+ people in the USSR.
The process is the same. Look at who won, and if a person's not on the list, then they didn't win.
Quote:
feldman114 said: Not Russia. The USSR, where records were destroyed and fabricated to suit the party’s needs. The USSR where records were kept on paper until the country SEIZED TO EXIST, which is why it’s impossible to prove THIS negative.
Source? Or make believe?
Please provide a source saying all the lists of the Heroes of the Soviet Union was either destroyed or fabricated, and that no one had a copy.
Quote:
feldman114 said: You are correct in that, outside of philosophical and scientific discussion, a negative can be proven. I was wrong and you were right. (See how easy that was?)
Actually, you were right in that you can't prove a negative in the absence of evidence. In this case, we know who the Heroes of the Soviet Union were, unless you find a source proving all such lists were destroyed or fabricated.
Quote:
feldman114 said: Btw, good job attacking the argument and not the person, as you implore koods to do. Yes...we are make believe kings...hilarious & super original.
You were make believing, unless you can prove you weren't by finding evidence that the Heroes of the Soviet Union lists were all fabricated or destroyed (burden of proof is always on the person making the claim).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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feldman114
Stragler


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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26426945 - 01/10/20 05:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The burden of evidence is yours - I’m not trying to prove anything. And it’s impossible to have evidence of something recorded only on paper, only in a country notorious for destruction of records, which doesn’t even exist anymore.
Ask your Russian buddies what happened to their Soviet bank records...and funds too btw.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: feldman114]
#26426977 - 01/10/20 05:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: The burden of evidence is yours - I’m not trying to prove anything.
Burden of Proof ALWAYS falls on the person making a claim. I provided a link to the names of the Heroes of the Soviet Union, and you just make believed the list of Heroes of the Soviet Union was either "destroyed or fabricated".
Quote:
feldman114 said: And it’s impossible to have evidence of something recorded only on paper, only in a country notorious for destruction of records, which doesn’t even exist anymore.
Source, or make believe? No, it's not 'impossible' to keep paper records.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26426996 - 01/10/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is a pointless discussion anyway, because if I'm right, then Bellingcat is full of shit for saying that he was a Hero of the Soviet Union when there is evidence that he wasn't, and if you're right, then Bellingcat is full of shit for claiming he was, since you just said it's impossible to know.
Either way Bellingcat is full of shit.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26427021 - 01/10/20 06:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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It appears to me that the list of Heroes of the Soviet Union were kept meticulously and are intact. Most were deserved, the majority coming from military figures from WWII, plus all the cosmonauts, some test pilots and political leaders in the Soviet Union and client states. Some were questionable like the one given to Trotsky's assassin after he got out of Mexican prison, and four given to Brezhnev every five years on his birthday. Some women received the award during the war and many more since.
However I couldn't find either Chepiga on the alphabetical list.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Brian Jones]
#26427239 - 01/10/20 08:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US kills Iran’s most powerful general in Baghdad airstrike [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#26427325 - 01/10/20 09:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: However I couldn't find either Chepiga on the alphabetical list.
I misread your comment. Yuri Chepiga is indeed on the list.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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