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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


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Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... 1
#26424311 - 01/09/20 10:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hello people,
Learnt a lesson recently on why it is essential to soak the substrate for a few hours between flushes.
Followed Willy Myco’s monotub tek, as I always do. I pasteurised the substrate (garden compost x 12, coco coir x 12, gypsum x 1) for 75 minutes at 160-180degF. Then left to drain overnight.
The substrate however was way too wet. But I proceeded anyway.
Sealed the tub, put in a black bin liner, then left for two weeks. Then I cased with an 1/8” layer of sterilised vermiculite and started fruit conditions. By the next morning there were loads of pins - couldn’t believe my luck. But the first flush was disappointing relative to previous monotub; just over 500g wet when usually I’d get approximately 1500g wet.
So I reckoned the substrate had been too wet and therefore didn’t then soak it before the next flush. This second flush was POOR; about 15 fruits weighing 122g wet. I also had 100s of aborts!
So I soaked the substrate before the third flush, and have been fanning and misting for about three days now. I have loads of pins.......
So people, it looks like I’ve learned a few lessons:
- get the substrate field capacity right before you start (although I got pins really quickly, I didn’t get as many as usual).
- you must soak the substrate between flushes, regardless.
Have you guys any experiences like this? I’d appreciate your thoughts, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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Hobbit GDF
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Registered: 02/14/19
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26424402 - 01/09/20 11:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah if I have overhydrate sub and get small mature fruits I won't dunk/soak. I'll just mist the shit out of it. You know as much as I prep coir I never get field capacity right off dick. I've been doing really hot tap water coir now. It's working perfect. I also bottom water alot after first flush. It's hard for me to tell surface conditions after first because the surface gets kinda jacked.
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


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Posts: 2,326
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: Hobbit GDF]
#26424491 - 01/09/20 11:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hobbit GDF said: Yeah if I have overhydrate sub and get small mature fruits I won't dunk/soak. I'll just mist the shit out of it. You know as much as I prep coir I never get field capacity right off dick. I've been doing really hot tap water coir now. It's working perfect. I also bottom water alot after first flush. It's hard for me to tell surface conditions after first because the surface gets kinda jacked.
The surface on mine was actually ok after the first flush, because it hadn’t completely overgrown the full area, as it usually does! Some of the first fruits were really large; just wasn’t that many. Thinking back all my monotub with pasteurised substrate were too wet. But that was in summer and I obviously had good spores because the trips have been strong. The rye jars actually took nearly 5 weeks to colonise; it’s normally done in 3 weeks! So maybe I had a poor syringe?
Take care, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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BLINKfan420
Jedi



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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26424640 - 01/09/20 01:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just yesterday we were discussing this same topic and in that post the conclusion was to mist heavily but do not dunk or soak the sub. It seemed that the risk of cracking a soaked sub and damaging the mycelium wasn't worth it and that you can get by with heavy misting to rehydrate a sub. 
BLiNK
--------------------
  All my pictures are drawn from imagination. I don't even know what a mushroom is.
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MLPismyOPSEC
That One Ponyfucker


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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: BLINKfan420]
#26424743 - 01/09/20 01:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to mist fairly heavily as well as squirt some in the corners to bottom-water and let the sub soak in it. No removing the sub, no actual soaking, no hassle.
Btw, you're pasteurizing too hot, and partially sterilizing. Temp should be between 140-150*F and never over 165*. Letting it drain overnight may be counteracting the partial sterilization, but that's a guess.
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DJ Ed
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
#26424791 - 01/09/20 02:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MLPismyOPSEC said: I like to mist fairly heavily as well as squirt some in the corners to bottom-water and let the sub soak in it. No removing the sub, no actual soaking, no hassle.
Btw, you're pasteurizing too hot, and partially sterilizing. Temp should be between 140-150*F and never over 165*. Letting it drain overnight may be counteracting the partial sterilization, but that's a guess.
Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I’ve just been really lucky? It’s in a knotted pillow case, in a strainer, then straight from the pillowcase to the monotub. Yeah first time I drained a monotub, the substrate fell out and smashed! Was real careful this time with no mishaps! But only a bit of water drained out. Maybe soak with less water and don’t drain it, as above.
Cheers, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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MLPismyOPSEC
That One Ponyfucker


Registered: 11/13/18
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Loc: Equestria? Mordor? Wester...
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26424856 - 01/09/20 02:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not necessarily lucky, more like a testament that your cultures and techniques are really clean! So actually, take it as a compliment, usually partial sterilization leads to insta-trich.
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DJ Ed
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Posts: 2,326
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
#26424858 - 01/09/20 02:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cheers, pal; hadn’t thought of it that way. DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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jcm4620
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26425036 - 01/09/20 04:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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willy myco is a fucking retard dont follow his advice he cant even pronounce what hes tryin to grow god i hate him hes a bafoon giving ppl bad advise for$$
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,284
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: jcm4620]
#26425234 - 01/09/20 06:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I’m leaning towards dunking subs in water between flushes can leach nutes from your sub. Heavy misting with some time between them can accomplish the same effect without possibly doing that. From what I recall, my water was always really brown after a dunk and the fruits weren’t as potent, but this is just an observation.. no solid proof on the matter, but if you think of your substrates as a giant tea bag, it seems plausible
Faht
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: jcm4620]
#26426210 - 01/10/20 09:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jcm4620 said: willy myco is a fucking retard dont follow his advice he cant even pronounce what hes tryin to grow god i hate him hes a bafoon giving ppl bad advise for$$
I dunno, pal; I don’t want to bad mouth him because I’m still learning, and his advice has worked for me. Though his videos are painfully long................
Mush love, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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DJ Ed
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: fahtster]
#26426216 - 01/10/20 09:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: I’m leaning towards dunking subs in water between flushes can leach nutes from your sub. Heavy misting with some time between them can accomplish the same effect without possibly doing that. From what I recall, my water was always really brown after a dunk and the fruits weren’t as potent, but this is just an observation.. no solid proof on the matter, but if you think of your substrates as a giant tea bag, it seems plausible
Faht
Yeah my water was brown. I hear what you’re all saying, but get this........
I’m mid third flush now. Didn’t soak after 1st flush and got a really poor second flush with loads of aborts. The third flush is looking really healthy after soaking the sub for 2 hours and carefully draining. I’ve then been misting then fanning three times a day, and I have loads of healthy looking pins.
I’m trying some fruits from the second flush tonight. I’ll try the third flush fruits in two weeks, and try to make a comparison, noting they’re all from multi spore. Might help me decide whether or not to continue soaking or changing to a much easier heavy misting between flushes.
Thanks for all your advice, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26426275 - 01/10/20 10:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah plz report back.. they definitely grew another healthy looking flush, but the potency just dropped off and I know genetics is more in play with potency etc but why even risk it if doing a heavy misting a couple times does the same as a dunk without the worry of stripping nutes from your sub.
Again, just a theory... not claiming anything as fact, but it interests me
Faht
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DJ Ed
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: fahtster]
#26426843 - 01/10/20 04:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well the fruits from the second flush were really poor. Going to try some from the first flush next week, before I then throw them all in the bin and order another syringe
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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rickyswamps
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Registered: 11/08/18
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: DJ Ed]
#26426866 - 01/10/20 04:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Depends on how wet your sub was to begin with and how big a 1st flush you had. Once you get some experience, pick it up. If it feels heavy then it doesn't need any water. If it feels light I'd bottom water for a few hours. I've found if you have slight contamination, soaking the sub pretty much sends it into full blown bacterial contamination.
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DJ Ed
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Posts: 2,326
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Last seen: 8 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: Soaking Substrate Between Flushes - Lesson... [Re: rickyswamps]
#26427477 - 01/11/20 01:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
rickyswamps said: Depends on how wet your sub was to begin with and how big a 1st flush you had. Once you get some experience, pick it up. If it feels heavy then it doesn't need any water. If it feels light I'd bottom water for a few hours. I've found if you have slight contamination, soaking the sub pretty much sends it into full blown bacterial contamination.
In the last three years, I have done 3 successful monotub. I have pasteurised the substrates the same way; knotted pillow case in a large pan, then removed from water when cool and left to drain overnight. Every time the substrate has been too wet. But this doesn’t seem to have harmed my first flushes. My last B+ grow I got 1.5kg wet from the first flush; this time I only got 530g. And this time the rye jars took 5 weeks to colonise. This usually takes me 3 weeks. And now having tried my fruits from this last grow, which were really weak, the spores must have come from poor genetics.
The final test will be when I try some from the first flush. I fully expect these also to be really weak.
No sometime shit happens. Not panicking as I have loads of good mushrooms in the freezer.
So the plan is to order my next syringe from one of thenshroomery’s Sponsors; then I know I getting reliable stock. I plan to go for Mazatapec after reading loads of strain advice on here. And I plan to hang my pasteurised sub to drain, to see if I can get initial field capacity closer to desired.
Now that you have said it it’s obvious: is it heavy or Light? My god I’m stupid sometimes!
Thanks for the help, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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