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Offlinealetheia306
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Registered: 01/08/20
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First time picking query
    #26423410 - 01/08/20 06:20 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Hi there folks. First post, total newbie just looking to confirm what I've gleaned from research and a first semi-successful hunt :smile:

We've had nearly a good week or so without frost here in the UK so last night I decided to head up to a field I'd seen a liberty cap or two (I was sufficiently confident) in a little while back when the frosts were first coming in.

Certainly found a good handful of mushies about, though didn't spend too long picking and will head back with more confidence soon. All the ones I found were in a part of a farmer's field that's clearly there for grazing but has been empty presumably since the end of summer at least, easily identified by a patch of sparse-ish weeds (withered thistles at a glance) which I'd guess are growing from the same rotting grassroots as the shrooms as they seemed to only be in that area and made spying the hunting area easy even in the dark with my phone's torch.

I think I either saw two or three species there, which is what I want to verify. The first appeared much like a lib especially with the ground so wet as it was a darker brown but I ruled it out due to the consistent lack of a discernable bump and very dark blackish gills, plus some but not all had caps growing larger (about an inch, perhaps a little more) and a little more conical. I think these were Panaeolus acuminatus, and I left them.

Then I found, always without fail directly adjacent to one of these darker ones, some which I am quite confident are liberty caps. Quite young I think owing to the brief warmish spell in January, but showing enough of a bump, a very slightly lighter cap, and gills a lighter grey with some bluish tint/mottling from what I could tell. These are pictured on the right, but after a day in my fridge as I was regrettably too tired to take photos and make this post when I got home, so the gills have darkened considerably but are not as black as the others I discarded.

The three on the left I was unsure if they might be younger libs with no bump having developed, but the cap shape and gill colour seemed subtly different enough for me to want to query it here. Sadly being a day old at time of photography, I can only tell you the colour difference I saw in the torch light as I picked them, which wasn't hugely significant, but seemed to be a bit more beige instead of grey and without any hint of bluishness, which was only ever a hint anyway, hence my uncertainty. Could these be Panaeolina foenisecii? Or am I right to think they're just less developed liberty caps?

Mostly looking for confirmation of ID, also forgive the totally newb question, but what is the purpose of drying them? Just so they last longer or is this an important and necessary aspect of preparing them? My main intention with them is to incorporate them into a concoction I'm using for my weed that involves sitting it in fresh fruit I've squeezed and mashed with some honey in a little pot with some garden herbs and then vaping that until it's dry enough to smoke, which works wonderfully. After a week or so I then make a drink of the fruit stuff as it starts to ferment a little with the weed and herb flavour and add some alcohol. I thought I could just put the shrooms in the fruit concoction to have some affect on the weed and then I can drink/eat them at the end of the cycle. Is there a reason to dry them before doing that? Or a reason that wouldn't work?

Thanks in advance :smile: Hope I haven't rambled too much unnecessarily.



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Invisiblebreeg89
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Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
Re: First time picking query [Re: aletheia306]
    #26423541 - 01/08/20 07:51 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

I don't see any liberty caps, but you might have some Panaeolus cinctulus. And yeah, drying is to preserve them. I'm not really sure about that witch's brew concoction you're talking about, but welcome to the shroomery.


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Offlinealetheia306
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Registered: 01/08/20
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Re: First time picking query [Re: breeg89]
    #26423623 - 01/08/20 09:11 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Thanks very much

Any positive ID or info on why these aren't libs for my learning? Was I at least right in thinking I had two different species here? The angle I shot from doesn't show off the tips very much at all as I was more interested in the gills and the overall shape. Would the "nipple" necessarily be a lot more pronounced? I got the impression they weren't always. Doesn't seem to match descriptions and images of panaeolus cinctulous I can find, nor the environment I found them in, but hoping to be enlightened :smile:


Edited by aletheia306 (01/08/20 09:22 PM)


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InvisiblePsilosadhu
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Re: First time picking query [Re: aletheia306]
    #26423740 - 01/08/20 10:34 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

I'm pretty sure they're all the same species. The lighter ones on the left are immature specimens. It's a panaeolus, possibly fimicola. But wait for someone else to give you a proper ID.
Well,first of all, psilocybes doesn't have black gills. Liberty caps has a different colour on the caps and a dark, incurved margin. Stem is also usually white.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: First time picking query [Re: aletheia306]
    #26423886 - 01/09/20 02:32 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

They look like Panaeolus. You might need a microscope to tell which.

Quote:

aletheia306 said:
Any positive ID or info on why these aren't libs for my learning?




Liberty caps have a so-called gelatinous pellicle covering the cap surface that
makes it sticky and somewhat shiny in appearance. Yours have a matt dry finish.
Also, your mushrooms uniformly lack the typical papilla on the cap, and the
stems are generally too dark, liberty cap stems are more whitish in appearance.
Lastly, liberty caps are strongly hygrophanous, which means they'll very markedly
change color and become paler in drying from the apex toward the margin of the cap.

You should check the following write-up and adjoining pictures - it's a very thorough
presentation of liberty caps, their different traits and characteristics as well as the most
common look alikes:

https://www.shroomery.org/12510/Psilocybe-semilanceata

Quote:

Was I at least right in thinking I had two different species here? 




No, it's likely they are the same species in different stages of development.


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Offlinealetheia306
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Re: First time picking query [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26423946 - 01/09/20 03:57 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Great, thanks again.

These ones don't have black gills, I didn't pick the ones that did. The colour changed from the 20 or so hours they'd spent in the fridge, first darkening somewhat to the shade of brown pictured where they were lighter at time of picking (much more similar to lib pics I've seen) and now lightening as they're beginning to dry out. They were shiny as you say as well, the pictures being just as drying is beginning. How pronounced is the papilla necessarily? Should I rule out anything without a clear point on top? The ones on the left appear totally round and smooth but the rest at least when picked (and more than the camera suggests, sorry for the bad angle) do at least have a discernable "bump" that led me to believe I'd found what I was after, but should it be a lot more acute then?


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: First time picking query [Re: aletheia306]
    #26423955 - 01/09/20 04:10 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

aletheia306 said:
These ones don't have black gills, I didn't pick the ones that did. The colour changed from the 20 or so hours they'd spent in the fridge, first darkening somewhat to the shade of brown pictured where they were lighter at time of picking (much more similar to lib pics I've seen) and now lightening as they're beginning to dry out. They were shiny as you say as well, the pictures being just as drying is beginning.




These still aren't liberty caps.

Regarding the hygrophanity, in liberty caps this happens fast and the color change becomes obvious within minutes.
Trust me, when you finally find the real deal you will know how to discern the differences to other species.

Quote:

How pronounced is the papilla necessarily? Should I rule out anything without a clear point on top? The ones on the left appear totally round and smooth but the rest at least when picked (and more than the camera suggests, sorry for the bad angle) do at least have a discernable "bump" that led me to believe I'd found what I was after, but should it be a lot more acute then?




Even as it is a prominent feature in liberty caps, it is also variable. Sometimes it is entirely lacking, sometimes it is overtly acute almost like a little tentacle.
I suggest you check the link I posted, and carefully go through both the description and the load of various pictures.


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Offlinealetheia306
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Re: First time picking query [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26423974 - 01/09/20 05:19 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I hear ya. Not bargaining for a different answer, just looking to clarify on the points made :smile: Pan fo seems the strongest candidate from this and what I've gathered. Would it be a safe enough bet that they're edible at least? Will hunt further with this info soon. Thanks again!


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: First time picking query [Re: aletheia306]
    #26423977 - 01/09/20 05:28 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

They look close to P. acuminatus. They are not toxic (no species of Panaeolus are) but I wouldn't waste my time eating them.
You should keep looking in the same habitat, but I believe your chances of finding liberty caps now are quite slim.


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