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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Social addiction?
#26422463 - 01/08/20 07:34 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Random thought: is social addiction a thing? I tried to google it but all I got was stuff related to social *media* addiction, so googling didn’t help.
The way I see it (it’s my personal and, therefore, highly subjective view) is that once a person depends on social interaction to be happy and, to some extreme, live in general, then that person is addicted to socialisation, hence the made-up expression “social addict”.
We can say “yada yada, humans are social creatures” and yes, we need a basic level of sociability to navigate the real world, but that’s a very practical thing that aims at very practical results. What I’m referring to is the need to establish social connections not for survival or for making life easier but, instead, for no practical purpose whatsoever, just “to be happy”.
I mean, from my point of view, if we can only be happy through our interaction with other people, then *we* aren’t intrinsically happy, we’re just finding happiness sort of “by proxy”.
I know these two people, the comparison of whom lead me to this thought: one is a girl who states she “cannot be alone”, and by this she means that she absolutely needs to have a boyfriend, or she will be miserable all the time as, the way I see it, she can’t self-validate and needs to find validation (and indeed anything resembling some form of happiness) through someone else, a boyfriend/partner in this case, with whom she needs to have a very close, deep connection, deep to the point of eroding the sense of self more often than not.
The other, which is functionally the very opposite to the former, is a guy who states something like “the only purpose in life is making connections [with people]”, and by connections he means shallow, volatile relationships that never last long (neither does he want them to) with completely random individuals that amuse him today, but not tomorrow and become, therefore, easily discardable. Shallow and ephemeral as his “connections” may be, it is allegedly through them alone that he is happy.
Again, these two individuals are, in social terms, functionally the opposite of one-another, and yet they share something very powerful that completely defines them and makes them pretty much the same: they *NEED* to be connected to other people in order to be happy, that’s what their lives are about.
Given this, can we not say that there is a form of addiction going on there? That, shallow or deep, long or short-lasting, these people (and many, many others like them, these are just the two most obvious examples I could think of) are indeed addicted to social interaction and are, therefore, social addicts?
Again, just a thought. Cheers.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
Edited by IntoTheMaelstrom (01/08/20 07:42 AM)
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VP123
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Look up the definition of addiction. What are its characteristics? One can have a food addiction but we all need to eat. Have you considered the consequences of being in complete isolation from other human beings? It's not pretty. Again, the answer hinges on the definition of addiction.
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26422586 - 01/08/20 09:36 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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From Merriam-Webster:
: a compulsive, chronic, physiological or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, behavior, or activity having harmful physical, psychological, or social effects and typically causing well-defined symptoms (such as anxiety, irritability, tremors, or nausea) upon withdrawal or abstinence : the state of being addicted : a strong inclination to do, use, or indulge in something repeatedly
Which reinforces my hypothesis: strong inclination, repeated/chronic indulgence in unnecessary socialisation/establishment of social relations. Additionally, in one of the examples I mentioned, the girl, the withdrawal symptoms also apply.
At no point have I mentioned living in isolation - the limiting of happiness to interpersonal relations was what I mentioned.
Cheers.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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Kickle
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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26422587 - 01/08/20 09:37 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Each of us forms our identity in unique ways. I wouldn't call either of your examples addicts but maybe egoically streamlined. They seem to be able to achieve a high level of identity formation by very simplistic social means. I wish it were that easy for all of us
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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sideroxylon
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There's toxic love addiction or codependency. It is social in that two people concurrently suffer. There are society compulsions more akin to behavioural addiction, but behavioural addiction is not really addiction.
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Re: Social addiction? [Re: Kickle]
#26422618 - 01/08/20 09:54 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I thoroughly agree with “I wish it were that easy for all of us” 
Can we say an identity is truly formed when that identity appears to change depending on who you’re socially associated with at an emotional level, almost as if all you are were the reflection of the other, or what you think the other wants to see in you? (This is not a rhetorical question!)
Cheers.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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Buster_Brown
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I think habit formed thru repitition (social interaction from grade school on up) and attraction, can factor in.
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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“Social compulsion” is perhaps a better way to put it, indeed.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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VP123
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Quote:
IntoTheMaelstrom said:
Which reinforces my hypothesis: strong inclination, repeated/chronic indulgence in unnecessary socialisation/establishment of social relations. Additionally, in one of the examples I mentioned, the girl, the withdrawal symptoms also apply.
At no point have I mentioned living in isolation - the limiting of happiness to interpersonal relations was what I mentioned.
Cheers.
What are the harmful physical, psychological, or social effects?
I experience a strong inclination to eat food every day. Can it be characterized as repeatedly and chronic if I have to have three square meals every day? I'm trying to draw a parallel here. You mention unnecessary socialization. What makes it so? Who decides to what extent such socialization would be unnecessary? Coming back to the parallel of food, I eat more than my wife. Would someone be correct in stating that my food intake is excessive because I eat more than my wife? Because an excessive food intake could definitely be considered as indulgent and unnecessary.
Is addiction the right characterization in your examples?
Cheers
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Buster_Brown
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Quote:
IntoTheMaelstrom said: Can we say an identity is...if all you are were the reflection of the other, or what you think the other wants to see in you? (This is not a rhetorical question!)
It might be naive to forget our tribal roots and um cannibal tendency.
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Kickle
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Quote:
IntoTheMaelstrom said: I thoroughly agree with “I wish it were that easy for all of us” 
Can we say an identity is truly formed when that identity appears to change depending on who you’re socially associated with at an emotional level, almost as if all you are were the reflection of the other, or what you think the other wants to see in you? (This is not a rhetorical question!)
Cheers.
Hard to know fully why we do all that we do. Only that we do it and have an identity as a result.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26422830 - 01/08/20 11:42 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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“What are the harmful physical, psychological, or social effects?”
I would say living in hell or barely clinging to life when you don’t have a boyfriend is an all-round harmful thing. The girl (the example I know best), for instance:
Physical: insomnia, lack of appetite, indigestion... Psychological: generalised anxiety, low self-esteem, depression... Social: withdrawal, inability to be around other people (even when it comes to work)...
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Social addiction? [Re: Kickle]
#26422835 - 01/08/20 11:44 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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so you have: -1- identity with preferences and behaviors including substances then fine line --- where caring for other's well being is intact -2- then addiction with rewarding behaviors and or substances. --- where caring for self and other's well being is out of whack - and this is related to a dysfunctional activity
I guess the dysfunctional activity could be sex, or even meeting a group or club, even music, although any of these things can be very functional
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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I don’t think we have a “cannibal tendency”. We have cultural cannibalism, survival cannibalism and criminal cannibalism (“Eat Thy Neighbour” is brilliant, btw: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/618962.Eat_Thy_Neighbor), but I’d hardly call it a tendency outside some very specific (and rare) situations.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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I would intuitively say that something dysfunctional is anything that disrupts normal function so, if your life (including your ability to be happy or at least content) is disrupted by not meeting that sole condition that defines your happiness, then limiting your happiness to that single condition being met is dysfunctional.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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Kickle
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Maybe if the condition is difficult to meet or occurs infrequently. But it seems logical and desirable if it is easily attainable and occurs frequently IMO. Considering this over time is probably important
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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VP123
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Quote:
IntoTheMaelstrom said: I would intuitively say that something dysfunctional is anything that disrupts normal function so, if your life (including your ability to be happy or at least content) is disrupted by not meeting that sole condition that defines your happiness, then limiting your happiness to that single condition being met is dysfunctional.
Back to the food example. My life is a living hell and I suffer when I don't have nourishment. Do the negative and harmful effects manifest when you have or when you don't have what you so desperately want (food in one case maybe affection in another)? It is not always easy to distinguish an essential need from an addiction.
Edited by VP123 (01/08/20 12:25 PM)
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26422891 - 01/08/20 12:35 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Are you hungry?
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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VP123
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Not at all. I just had lunch. Addictions have withdrawal effects as a symptom. However, an addiction is not defined by the withdrawal symptoms but by the harmful effects observed when you indulge. Otherwise we could also say that diabetics end up addicted to insulin.
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laughingdog
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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26422946 - 01/08/20 01:10 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I don't know about social addiction per se, but it is well known that teenagers are very dependent on peer opinions & so on. People vary greatly in their ability to tolerate solitude and silence. Other people love crowds, whether at a football game or riot. Some women are very fashion conscious, and many are caught up in the more superficial aspects of society. Some people are so smart, creative, or charismatic that they sort of create their own world around themselves. Off the top of my head, I would guess a good example would be some of the great movie directors; but there are of course quite a few such folks, and some rather dark examples.
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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Re: Social addiction? [Re: VP123]
#26423009 - 01/08/20 01:51 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I’m not saying it’s just the withdrawal that is bad, nor am I defining an “addiction” (“compulsion”, “strong inclination”, etc as per the dictionary) based on withdrawal symptoms, but rather by the “compulsive”, “strongly inclined” part.
As for what’s negative in terms of “indulgence”, I pretty much think that wilfully repeating the same pattern of behaviour which you know from experience keeps getting you into rather dark, dodgy places is not a positive thing. And there you have a fundamental difference between the diabetic and my friend: the diabetic needs insulin to live, the other option would be dying or close enough; as for my friend, her survival does not depend on having a boyfriend, that is a choice, and she has plenty of other possibilities to choose from, and yet the “compulsion”/“strong inclination” is to always find whatever dodgy boyfriend, because her happiness totally depends on it.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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redgreenvines
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the only distinction I came up with was Quote:
where caring for other's well being is intact
otherwise addiction and identity overlap and intertwine variously.
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IntoTheMaelstrom



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You do have a point there. But then, again, identity overlaps and intertwined with just about anything that makes us.
-------------------- “I drank to drown my sorrows, but the damned things learnt how to swim” (Frida Khalo, 1907-1954)
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laughingdog
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Quote:
IntoTheMaelstrom said: Random thought: is social addiction a thing? ....
I know these two people, the comparison of whom lead me to this thought: one is a girl who states she “cannot be alone”, and by this she means that she absolutely needs to have a boyfriend, or she will be miserable all the time as, the way I see it, she can’t self-validate and needs to find validation (and indeed anything resembling some form of happiness) through someone else, a boyfriend/partner in this case, with whom she needs to have a very close, deep connection, deep to the point of eroding the sense of self more often than not.
The other, which is functionally the very opposite to the former, is a guy who states something like “the only purpose in life is making connections [with people]”, and by connections he means shallow, volatile relationships that never last long (neither does he want them to) with completely random individuals that amuse him today, but not tomorrow and become, therefore, easily discardable. Shallow and ephemeral as his “connections” may be, it is allegedly through them alone that he is happy.
Again, these two individuals are, in social terms, functionally the opposite of one-another, and yet they share something very powerful that completely defines them and makes them pretty much the same: they *NEED* to be connected to other people in order to be happy, that’s what their lives are about.
Given this, can we not say that there is a form of addiction going on there? ....
Pretty much primates are a sort of herd animal, but the term used for primates is a "troop". As in a troop of baboons or gorillas. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=primates+social+groups&ia=web
So in a general sense, it is normal for primates, to need one another.
You phrase the question in broad general terms, but then it turns out, it is about 2 individuals. Of course I don't know them, but from your description, I imagine many would question, the idea that either of them is happy in any deep sense.
There are probably more sick & disturbed ways for primates, especially humans to relate to one another; than the healthy ways, which all have compassion in common.
As the phrase "heavy is the head that wears the crown", implies the more aware, compassionate, responsible, and nurturing of their social group a person is, the less personal freedom, such a person ends up with. So the most socially involved person, is paradoxically, in another sense perhaps the most isolated.
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RJ Tubs 202


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I believe many people find the intimacy of human interaction to be deeply nourishing and fulfilling. Some people are so damaged by trauma that this is not possible - they see people as a threat, and place a high priority on avoiding human interaction, intimacy, and relationships. The "down and out" folks who wander the streets and talk to themselves have adapted to a way of life where they have imaginary people to talk to with no risk of being hurt.
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NicodArleone
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The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity. Carlos Castaneda
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redgreenvines
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laughingdog
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its not always an either or choice, these men alternate, between a life of trapping alone, and village life.
"Happy people a year in the taiga" a Werner-Herzog movie
"Yuri V 6 years ago Yep. Except Werner Herzog provides mostly commentary and editing (and of course throws all his weight to promote the film). All of the footage is by a Russian team led by Dmitry Yasyukov."
Dmitry Yasyukov on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcHbZZPce_ZMUuYr5u6sxy3gsxLYLKiPv
https://www.amazon.com/Happy-People-Taiga-Werner-Herzog/dp/B00AXYZZ6C/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=happy+people+a+year+in+the+taiga&qid=1578982779&s=music&sr=1-3-catcorr#customerReviews
Edited by laughingdog (01/13/20 11:38 PM)
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Fame is certainly addictive.
Look at any showbiz story that ended badly.
You get used to all the constant excitement/attention and when it all goes away there's an enormous void in your life.
There's only a hand full of child/teenage stars I can think of that didn't completely crash and burn.
"HE BECAME THE KING OF BUBBLEGUM ROCK"
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (01/14/20 03:34 PM)
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Mr. D Green
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Independence from thy self is toxic, independence from every thing but one's self is golden. Interacting with ones surroundings is stimulating..understand?? We as advance beings need this to "function" properly. "Social addiction" is an attempt to run or hide from ones self, for whatever reason.
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Buckomcdoogle
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Look at how alcoholism destroys native communities in the rural parts of the world.
It's what happens when people in an isolated society isolate themselves even further.
Alaska is #1 in suicides.
People need people.
Im definitely not a "people person" but I think one of the most rewarding things I do on a regular basis is interact with people.
The only way you ever become better at interacting with/persuading people is by just talking to people.
Being good with people will get you just as far as hard work.
I know a few bartenders that act fake as fuck 2 days a week and pocket a grand or 2.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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RJ Tubs 202


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Relationships are the most important part of my life because I don't know of any aspect of existence that's of greater value.
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