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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26249880 - 10/13/19 02:02 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now




I also am not hearing about this. What I keep reading is pulling out of Syria will revitalize ISIS there. IDK, I haven't kept up enough to make an argument. About the only good thing I could eve say about Trump is that he wants to pull out of these Middle Eastern involvements. I like that idea in the long run, but the generals, the right and most of the other establishment figures think it's a bad idea. Definitely will take time to tell.




Long term, pulling out of the ME is a good thing, as long as we can stay out. Short term, we've basically done the equivalent of a fresh new MBA that comes in with great ideas, tears everything down to start from scratch, realizes shit's complicated, and walks out without even rebuilding back to the point where it was before.

Pulling out right now simply fucks everyone. It reverses everything we've done (see, ISIS fighters escaping Kurdish prisons--first few thousand escapees reported on today), and it leaves a bunch of destroyed countries that are easy pickings for a totalitarian movement and sectarian violence.

What was the right solution? Significant society-building. We needed to stay and stabilize what needed to be stabilized, and we should have used political means to ensure the creation of a Kurdish country that was capable of defending itself. This would have taken decades.

What's the next best solution? Leave, and don't come back. This means that when the next terrorist attacks are carried out by ISIS, we need to roll with it instead of deciding to blow everything up again. And there will be more terrorist attacks. We've made a whole lot of new enemies that would love to hurt the US.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Maybe the kurds will finally learn not to trust us.




They never did trust us. They had no choice. It's like the poor person taking out another payday loan. Yeah, they know they're getting fucked, but option B is no food.


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250201 - 10/13/19 04:53 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

From the commander of the Kurds:

Quote:

When the whole world failed to support us, the United States extended its hands. We shook hands and appreciated its generous support. At Washington’s request, we agreed to withdraw our heavy weapons from the border area with Turkey, destroy our defensive fortifications, and pull back our most seasoned fighters. Turkey would never attack us so long as the U.S. government was true to its word with us.

We are now standing with our chests bare to face the Turkish knives.

President Donald Trump has been promising for a long time to withdraw U.S. troops. We understand and sympathize. Fathers want to see their children laughing on their laps, lovers want to hear the voices of their partners whispering to them, everyone wants to go back to their homes.

We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey.

We believe in democracy as a core concept, but in light of the invasion by Turkey and the existential threat its attack poses for our people, we may have to reconsider our alliances. The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection. We do not trust their promises. To be honest, it is hard to know whom to trust.




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250224 - 10/13/19 05:00 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection.



I wonder what those proposals are.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250269 - 10/13/19 05:27 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
From the commander of the Kurds:

Quote:

When the whole world failed to support us, the United States extended its hands. We shook hands and appreciated its generous support. At Washington’s request, we agreed to withdraw our heavy weapons from the border area with Turkey, destroy our defensive fortifications, and pull back our most seasoned fighters. Turkey would never attack us so long as the U.S. government was true to its word with us.

We are now standing with our chests bare to face the Turkish knives.

President Donald Trump has been promising for a long time to withdraw U.S. troops. We understand and sympathize. Fathers want to see their children laughing on their laps, lovers want to hear the voices of their partners whispering to them, everyone wants to go back to their homes.

We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey.

We believe in democracy as a core concept, but in light of the invasion by Turkey and the existential threat its attack poses for our people, we may have to reconsider our alliances. The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection. We do not trust their promises. To be honest, it is hard to know whom to trust.







A powerful statement


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26250277 - 10/13/19 05:31 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Why are The Kurds so disliked?

Isn't that who Saddam gased?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26250325 - 10/13/19 05:56 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection.



I wonder what those proposals are.




I'm guessing military aid. Seems to be the most direct assistance possible in this case.

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Why are The Kurds so disliked?

Isn't that who Saddam gased?




Yes. People don't like them because they are quite diverse and include a good number of Christians. Further, they are a minority in every country they reside in, which makes them very easy targets for random violence and government scapegoating.

Just like literally any other minority.

---

Speaking of random protests we've never heard of, the Ecuadorian Army just got deployed to help stop the protests in Ecuador. The official US stance is that "Dialogue and respect for rule of law are core democratic values and the best way for the people of Ecuador to enjoy greater economic prosperity" and that the United States deplored "violence as a form of political protest".

Apparently Ecuadorians aren't too happy that the guy they elected on a democratic socialist platform decided that the best way to go was to remove regulations on the wealthy and banks, to impose fiscal austerity, and to create an arm of government law enforcement which is not bound by the constitution and is in charge of "evaluating authorities and judges".

Oh, and he also decided to back out of local agreements with Venezuela, to buy a bunch of US guns and helicopters, and to revoke Assange's asylum, conveniently after meeting with Mike Pence.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26250362 - 10/13/19 06:17 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Why are The Kurds so disliked?



I believe they want their own country, much like the Jews once did, but who's going to give it to them?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26250406 - 10/13/19 06:36 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

They has their own country between 1920-1923, before Turkey seized it by military force.

They also had their own pseudo-state within Iraq between 1992-2003 which, while technically part of Iraq, had an independent government and parliament.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26250502 - 10/13/19 07:37 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Glad to see its not just me that sees the lack of coverage...my bias may shine through a lttle, though. You would think the major Hong Kong coverage would automatically pick up another protest where 100 died and many injured. (Estimated 6,000)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (10/13/19 07:43 PM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26419982 - 01/06/20 08:29 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:

The crackdown by security forces that followed left more than 100 people dead and thousands more injured. Iraqi president Barham Salih condemned the crackdown in a televised speech on October 7, claiming that orders to shoot at the protesters weren’t made by the state or its apparatus. The interior ministry ordered an investigation into the deaths.

Yet, Salih’s statement raised questions about who is actually running the Iraqi state. And despite his and international condemnation, the crackdown continues on the ground.

--------

It also followed the removal of a key general, Abdul Wahab Al Saadi, from his position as commander of the Counter-Terrorism Service, followed by his demotion to a lower post at the Ministry of Defence. The marginalisation of a figure admired for his role in the military campaign against IS enraged many Iraqis.

-----------

Violent crackdown
The immediate crackdown of the protests has surprised, shocked, and shaken Iraqis. The suppression turned a protest about anti-corruption and unemployment into an uprising against the status quo and what participants see as foreign interference, particularly from Iran.

-----------

They used live fire and grenades. What have we done? All what we are asking for are our rights and all people’s rights.”






Worth a bump seeing as Iran just got belted

Removal of Abdul Wahab Al Saadi


Edited by Stable Genius (01/06/20 08:43 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Stable Genius] * 3
    #26420117 - 01/06/20 09:51 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Yes, this is the other powder keg. Iran is ready to start another, new type of proxy war in Iraq . The Shia would jump at that (thats about 70% of Iraq).

From your link:

"The root causes of grievances in Iraq have never been addressed; when heavily armed and trained fighters return home to a lack of jobs and housing in a country suffering from widespread corruption, that is a recipe for civil unrest."


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26420142 - 01/06/20 10:18 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Well, Trump isn't jumping at the opportunity to bring the troops home and get out of these forever wars. 

He really wants to keep the troops deployed.  He leveraged Iraq with devastating sanctions should they dare to exercise sovereignty on this issue.

And they are sending more.

Fort Bragg, North Carolina (CNN)More than 3,000 service members are set to be deployed to the Middle East as tensions rise following the killing of an Iranian general by the United States.

I don't know what it's going to take for some people to wake up to who the fuck this psychopathic liar really is.


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Invisiblewaves

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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26420510 - 01/07/20 07:48 AM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.





I too was forced to leave a piece of my soul in the deserts of Jordan. The vendors at Petra are merciless. I was compelled to buy multiple small figurines and a metal incense burner. I was lucky to escape with my life.

:rofl:

But seriously, Petra is amazing. I loved all of Jordan.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: waves]
    #26421523 - 01/07/20 05:05 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Jordan was one of the roughest schools in the LAUSD.  My time there was not enjoyable.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26421551 - 01/07/20 05:19 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

How awesome is it going to be for Russia if we file out of there and leave a noce power vacuum for them to take advantage of?


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