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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Beyond Mind
    #26420956 - 01/07/20 12:20 PM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Short video on the egoic mind, how it keeps us in bondage, and what it means to go beyond it :sun:



--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady]
    #26422288 - 01/08/20 01:51 AM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Hmmm.....:strokebeard:.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Offlinesaintdextro
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26423236 - 01/08/20 04:06 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Is this higher emptiness of which he speaks the same as the buddha's teaching on emptiness?

because the buddha taught that it is part of the thicket/contortion of view to have the views "self exists for me" or "no-self exist for me" or "I see self with self" or "I see no-self with self" or "I see self with no-self" or "my self is that which experiences plasure/pain and after death will be eternal",

leaving the last one, I suppose his answer would be "I see no-self with no-self".


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: saintdextro] * 1
    #26423263 - 01/08/20 04:36 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

As far as I understand, it's the same higher emptiness which is spoken about in all spiritual traditions which speak of emptiness. I'm honestly not an expert in Buddhist philosophy, so I don't think I can adequately answer your question. From my own learning and experiences, it seems like this emptiness is completely free of the concept of either self or no-self, which I think is what the Buddha was getting at. Daishi has mentioned on numerous occasions that the Buddha never actually said there was no [higher] self (as lots of people believe), and that this idea comes from mistranslations. The Buddha didn't answer the question when asked, as far as I understand, and just said that it is not helpful to consider whether there is a self or not, when you are ultimately trying to reach a place completely beyond conceptualisation.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlinesaintdextro
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady]
    #26423293 - 01/08/20 04:56 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

it seems the theravada buddhist are bigger on the definition of "emptiness" being a absolute remainderless nothing, while mahayanist more laxed.


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: saintdextro]
    #26423309 - 01/08/20 05:09 PM (4 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah you could be right. Like I said, no expert on traditional Buddhist philosophy, but I would say that Daishi and Drukama lean more towards Mahayana/Vajrayana, although it's not something that can really be pigeon-holed as such :sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: saintdextro]
    #26423851 - 01/09/20 01:40 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

saintdextro said:
Is this higher emptiness of which he speaks the same as the buddha's teaching on emptiness?

because the buddha taught that it is part of the thicket/contortion of view to have the views "self exists for me" or "no-self exist for me" or "I see self with self" or "I see no-self with self" or "I see self with no-self" or "my self is that which experiences plasure/pain and after death will be eternal",

leaving the last one, I suppose his answer would be "I see no-self with no-self".




I find a lot of Buddhist wisdom harkens back to "no-mind", which is similar to being as still and present as possible with your existential hardware/software, so to speak. Silencing the "monkey mind" and "seeing to the bottom of the well" is the "secret" from what I glean. I've been there many times with daily meditation, which is just as important as daily exercise IMHO.

Great thread! :buddha2:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady]
    #26423884 - 01/09/20 02:31 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

What are you if there is no ego?

What makes the choices?


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26423887 - 01/09/20 02:32 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

To my unenlightened mind, the idea of an awareness that is not conceptual seems like a regression of consciousness.

But I believe all of this stuff.  I believe a superior consciousness exists and it has been described as transcending concept, being above concept, or something like that. 

Is there a physical expression of the rational emerging from what cannot be conceptualized, in the Big Bang thoery?  The conceptual universe emerging from something not rational, something that cannot be conceptualized. 

The laws of science are broken down completely in the first instant of the universe, and the question of what that emerged from is even more inexplicable maybe.

What is this non conceptual mind?  Is it the awareness I have when I am not thinking, when Im in the here and now and have no questions and all that?  Is that even close?


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26423891 - 01/09/20 02:39 AM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
Is there a physical expression of the rational emerging from what cannot be conceptualized, in the Big Bang thoery?  The conceptual universe emerging from something not rational, something that cannot be conceptualized. 

The laws of science are broken down completely in the first instant of the universe, and the question of what that emerged from is even more inexplicable maybe.




Spot on IMHO.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26425167 - 01/09/20 05:57 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
To my unenlightened mind, the idea of an awareness that is not conceptual seems like a regression of consciousness.

But I believe all of this stuff.  I believe a superior consciousness exists and it has been described as transcending concept, being above concept, or something like that. 

Is there a physical expression of the rational emerging from what cannot be conceptualized, in the Big Bang thoery?  The conceptual universe emerging from something not rational, something that cannot be conceptualized. 

The laws of science are broken down completely in the first instant of the universe, and the question of what that emerged from is even more inexplicable maybe.

What is this non conceptual mind?  Is it the awareness I have when I am not thinking, when Im in the here and now and have no questions and all that?  Is that even close?




Well from my limited understanding, yes I think that 'not thinking' present awareness is heading in the right direction. It seems like there's different levels to it, or rather that it exists on a sliding scale of sorts. Although there seems to be a point on that scale at which we can 'pop' through to a whole new level of awareness which is completely free of rational mind altogether. I've heard Daishi and many other teachers mention that this 'emptiness' is not really empty, but instead is filled with love and compassion and a whole other way of perceiving that doesn't involve the rational/intellectual mind (although after a certain point, it can still be engaged and used when necessary if one so desires).

In meditation there are different stages, and in the highest stages of Samadhi and Samyama, the object and observer enter into a kind of union which each other. From what I understand, perceiving beyond the rational mind might look something like this...If we want to understand a flower from the perspective of the rational mind, we might say, 'it's yellow', 'it smells nice', 'it likes sunlight', etc. However, none of these things actually tell us what a flower really is, or what it is to be a flower. Through meditative union/absorption (which is basically going to this same place of 'emptiness') it's possible to fully unite with the object of meditation, and thus understand it on a level far beyond that of concepts, but really knowing it.

I love the idea about the conceptual emerging from the non-conceptual in the big bang :smile:

To describe the nature of the mind, the analogy of space is used. The mind is likened to space because space has no shape, no color, and no characteristic. It is free from any conditioning or characteristic at all. In this way the example of space provides a suitable analogy to describe the nature of the mind. But there are other aspects to the mind - its radiant clarity and unobstructed compassion - that space doesn’t possess.

~ Yangthang Rinpoche


Edited by PocketLady (01/09/20 06:14 PM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26425178 - 01/09/20 06:05 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
What are you if there is no ego?

What makes the choices?




Good question. I guess we better find out! But I don't think it's that the ego is lost altogether. At the moment, the ego is completely in control. The aim is to get to a place where the higher mind is now running the show, with the ego being used as a tool to interact with the world, make choices etc.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady]
    #26425229 - 01/09/20 06:39 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

We also have the issue of the ego possessing an element of corruption.

What is the nature of that?  I suppose that's one of those questions that is irrelevant to the correct course of action.  The arrow wound buddhist parable.

I feel like if there is something to understand there, with the nature of the ego's corruption, it would be helpful in orienting us.  It's always good to know what's going on.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady] * 2
    #26425232 - 01/09/20 06:41 PM (4 years, 20 days ago)

I have heard the analogy of returning the ego to its proper role as a butler rather than a master of your being :smile: :thumbup:


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26425276 - 01/09/20 07:14 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Well, it seems like the nature of the ego's corruption is the disconnect between it and the higher mind. In our present state, we have a perpetual sense of lack. As a result of that sense of lack, the intention behind every thought and every action is always to do with 'me'. I want to feel good. I don't want to feel bad. What do I get from this? How will this affect me? What do I want? What is going to make me feel better? Even when I seemingly do things for others, there's always some self-gratification in there somewhere, some kind of 'reward' in it for me.

The problem seems to be that nothing ever fulfills us. As soon as we get one thing, the high begins to wear off and we are off in search of the next thing that will 'make us happy'. It seems like that might change if we were to find a state where we were in a constant state of satiation. If we were already fulfilled, there would be no need to focus on 'me' all the time, because 'I' wouldn't need anything. It's being in locked in the state of the conceptual mind that has us chasing all of these things, erroneously believing we are going to find an end to our craving. So the sense of lack the ego feels keeps us locked in a cycle of focusing on ourselves, selfishly, and on the temporal world, instead of focusing on the higher and on going beyond all concepts to a place where [many teachers say] lack doesn't exist.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (01/09/20 07:27 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26425541 - 01/09/20 10:09 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Maybe the ego's corruption stems mostly from the erroneous idea that self and other selves are different?  If we could truly SEE that our self and our brother are the same, a lot of that self-centeredness would seem to dissolve, no?  Although that wouldn't account for the problems caused by the concept of scarcity...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: Forrester]
    #26425593 - 01/09/20 10:48 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Good ego vs bad ego maybe?


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #26425619 - 01/09/20 11:14 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Maybe the ego's corruption stems mostly from the erroneous idea that self and other selves are different?  If we could truly SEE that our self and our brother are the same, a lot of that self-centeredness would seem to dissolve, no?  Although that wouldn't account for the problems caused by the concept of scarcity...




Yeah I definitely agree that the perception of separateness is hugely important in that sense :thumbup: I think that and the sense of lack go hand in hand, and are ultimately resolved by the same thing; connection to the higher mind. I think perhaps the sense of lack is one of the reasons it’s so hard for us to recognise the illusion of separation, because it keeps us so focussed on ‘me’ and ‘my needs’ all of the time. If it weren’t for those desires, there would be nothing preventing us from reaching upwards, instead of downwards.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (01/09/20 11:30 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beyond Mind [Re: PocketLady]
    #26426184 - 01/10/20 08:47 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
Yeah I definitely agree that the perception of separateness is hugely important in that sense :thumbup: I think that and the sense of lack go hand in hand, and are ultimately resolved by the same thing; connection to the higher mind. I think perhaps the sense of lack is one of the reasons it’s so hard for us to recognise the illusion of separation, because it keeps us so focussed on ‘me’ and ‘my needs’ all of the time. If it weren’t for those desires, there would be nothing preventing us from reaching upwards, instead of downwards.




Very good point!


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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