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OfflineDJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer
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Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
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Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: curious.psychonaut]
    #26420322 - 01/07/20 03:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curious.psychonaut said:

Suggesting Big Pharma might not be willing to invest billions into psilocybin research is different from accusing them of fielding an international lobbying apparatus to keep it illegal. One is a reasonable assumption one can make/not make for the same of argument. The other is a sensational conspiracy claim and the burden of proof is on the one making it, not on anyone else to prove it wrong.




Yes, agreed there. I think the key word you wrote is: “conspiracy”. My dad has done my head in my entire life with his theories. As a six or seven year old, he would not accept my belief in the moon landings and argued with me to prove it to him! I said there are photos. He argued back. That’s been for life. So yeah my dad would probably subscribe to the various conspiracy theories.

But then, who knows. Have you ever read David Nutt: Drugs Without The Hot Air? He was the UK’s chief scientific officer, advising the government on drugs policy. It is fact that both the tobacco industry (USA 1950s various Doctors advertised and endorsed differing cigarettes, as less harmful than brand X etc), and the alcohol / brewery industry today , lobby parliament to keep alcohol legal, and discredit research into alternatives.

The sugar industry has in the last few years been “found out”. They’d been paying scientists to publish data that saturated fat was the real danger. Turns out fat is essential, is healthy, and that sugar is the real killer.....

70% of UK politicians get some sort of funding from the breweries. And in a poll, as to whether alcoholism was a decease, or a case of weak moral fibre, the vast majority of MPs voted it was down to weak moral fibre. FFS.

He also presented evidence that horse riding is more dangerous than Ecstacy (so why is Ecstacy illegal, and why is horse riding legal). The then Home Secretary responded to this claim that of course Ecstacy was illegal, it is a drug!!

When his chart of the 20 most popular recreational drugs came out, where they were rated in terms of harm to user, friends, society etc, alcohol came out most dangerous, ahead of crack and heroin, and mushrooms were bottom. He was then sacked.......

So who knows, like I said these corporations are not in it for public health, they’re in it for profit.

All I’m saying is, yes it is unlikely, but not entirely implausible.

Take care, love your posts,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Registered: 11/13/19
Posts: 554
Loc: United States Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26420331 - 01/07/20 03:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Generally I would agree with you, curious_pyschonaut. Never attribute to malice what could more easily be attributed to stupidity.

But in this case, the drug tiers were clearly corrupted from the beginning. Weed was put in S1 bc Nixon’s political adversaries used it, and meth in S2 because it was used more among people that were more likely to vote for him. We then forced our drug policy on the rest of the world.

At present day, there is absolutely no reason for weed and psychedelics to be illegal. And there is strongly documented evidence of lobbying groups buying out politicians and ultimately policy. So no, it probably isn’t a smoke-filled-backroom conspiracy, but a general agreement among these lobbying groups that works against the public good does not seem far fetched at all to me


--------------------
:rastamon::getstoned::rastamon:


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InvisibleHobbyist
Citizen


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 805
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26420407 - 01/07/20 05:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This has been tremendously encouraging to read. 

Thank you all for sharing.  I particularly appreciate the friendly tone of everyone here. :heart:


--------------------
Everything i say is completely hypothetical...



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Registered: 09/04/16
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Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26420410 - 01/07/20 05:34 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There was a MAPS convention in 2016 where many, many experts, scientists, psychonauts, healers etc. gathered. It was the largest to that date and was filled with optimism for the future, and that legalisation for medical research was very close.

They asked an ex-head of the FDA to comment; his overriding advice to those gathered was: “don’t fuck it up this time!”

Indeed, both in America and in the uk, research bodies have gone to their associated governing bodies to ask for funding say to further explore psilocybin for terminally ill patients; the EMA (European body; fda American) came back with; “No, it is too limited. There is so much more benefit to be had from widening the research to say depression treatment, which would be much more “profitable” (can’t think of correct term, it’s not profit...)”. The researchers were amazed! So if these phase 2 trials are as successful as the phase 1 exploratory trials, there is apparently no way our govt, and possibly same in the USA, no way they can not re-schedule the psychedelics.

So there is optimism, but also great concern that even if only one rogue researcher concentrates on say psilocybin for “recreational” rather than medical research to assist those ill, it could again ruin it for everyone. I’m not discrediting Timothy Leary, and indeed believe his “antics”have allowed this renaissance to happen, but the fear is another Timothy Leary, and no matter what the science was saying, the plug would be again pulled.

So maybe conspiracy to think “big pharma” could sabotage this renaissance, and I from the bottom of my heart also hope it is just conspiracy.

Let’s see what hindsight provides in ten or twenty years time.....

Mush love,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleTheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?
Male

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,574
Loc: Flag
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26420682 - 01/07/20 10:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Some of the biggest contributors to lobbyists to keep weed illegal were Pepsi and Phillip Morris and I'm sure Big Pharma as well.  They were afraid their profit would get cut into if weed was legal.

It's always all about the trail of money and greed.
Pharma has no incentive to make drugs that fix people.  Better for them to have people keep taking it and paying for it


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Registered: 09/04/16
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Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #26420782 - 01/07/20 10:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Some of the biggest contributors to lobbyists to keep weed illegal were Pepsi and Phillip Morris and I'm sure Big Pharma as well.  They were afraid their profit would get cut into if weed was legal.

It's always all about the trail of money and greed.
Pharma has no incentive to make drugs that fix people.  Better for them to have people keep taking it and paying for it




And that’s just the number one  problem our civilisation faces: how the heck do we change this greed? I am an optimist, and do hope that one day psychedelics are freely but safely integrated into our society, but even then, I can’t believe that would overcome those at the top of the pyramid, the Rockefeller’s, the bezo’s, etc.

They’ll always try to control us; big pharma, education, govt, religion.....

The then CEO of Marlboro cigarettes was once asked why he didn’t smoke;,he responded that he left that privilege for the poor nd the under-privileged!

Just look into the “Brexit”,referendum vote in the Uk in 2016; that will tell you all you need to know about democracy.

America, land of the free. There are more people incarcerated in the states than the rest of the world (combined?)......

I’m sure the older I get , the more cynical I get! Off my high-horse, for now.....

Mush love,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinefootpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
Posts: 1,367
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26420866 - 01/07/20 11:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I like mushrooms.
And I like not being depressed.

Corporations and government can go suck a big one,
and we can give them our big ones by sustaining ourselves by any necessary means... like growing medicine.

Let's keep this thread about not being depressed.


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?
Male

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,574
Loc: Flag
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26420977 - 01/07/20 12:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
And that’s just the number one  problem our civilisation faces: how the heck do we change this greed? I am an optimist, and do hope that one day psychedelics are freely but safely integrated into our society, but even then, I can’t believe that would overcome those at the top of the pyramid, the Rockefeller’s, the bezo’s, etc.

They’ll always try to control us; big pharma, education, govt, religion.....

The then CEO of Marlboro cigarettes was once asked why he didn’t smoke;,he responded that he left that privilege for the poor nd the under-privileged!

Just look into the “Brexit”,referendum vote in the Uk in 2016; that will tell you all you need to know about democracy.

America, land of the free. There are more people incarcerated in the states than the rest of the world (combined?)......

I’m sure the older I get , the more cynical I get! Off my high-horse, for now.....

Mush love,
DJ Ed




Good points and great questions...

Quote:

footpath said:
I like mushrooms.
And I like not being depressed.

Corporations and government can go suck a big one,
and we can give them our big ones by sustaining ourselves by any necessary means... like growing medicine.

Let's keep this thread about not being depressed.




This is about all we can do at the moment


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OfflineDJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer
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Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
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Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
Re: 3 Years Of Microdosing For Suicidal Depression [Re: footpath]
    #26421269 - 01/07/20 02:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
I like mushrooms.
And I like not being depressed.

Corporations and government can go suck a big one,
and we can give them our big ones by sustaining ourselves by any necessary means... like growing medicine.

Let's keep this thread about not being depressed.




Absolutely, footpath. I am optimistic. Let’s focus on positives; I’m depressed, friggin’ typical negative thinking displayed above.

I am getting there, folks. Check my posts this time next year.......

Mush love all,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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