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Offlinestickp1
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Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap
    #26420377 - 01/07/20 06:50 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)



Habitat:
Near a fountain, 20m by the roadside on the periphery of some woods. Growing on dead wood (sometimes clearly, others appear to grow on soil but on closer inspection it's dead wood I believe). Don't know what kind of wood, but probably some sort of pinus

Gills:
cream with a darker vibe coming from the cap underside, usually not running all the way

Stem:
Abobut 5-10cm length, clearly white bruising blue

Cap:
when younger the edge is turned down and looks hatlike, with a nipple on top but not spiky, when older starts flattening out, but usually maintaining the nipple.

Spore print color:
That purplish-brown fosho

Bruising:
Bruising blue (more on the stem than cap), but has some brown dots/spots on cap that are more noticeable for older mushrooms and present in some more than others

Other comments:
There were growing mostly under leaves very close to the ground in a very humid place, although there has been no rain... Almost positive is azurescens, cyanescens may also be the case. The thing I would like above all is for some insight into these brown spots (I've heard larvae damage, water droplets, bacteria, etc. but all seemed speculation).
Black squares are different mushrooms, felt it would be confusing to leave them.


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
    #26420382 - 01/07/20 06:53 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Psilocybe bohemica.
Yeah, those brown spots are mist likely larval damage.


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
    #26420513 - 01/07/20 09:52 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks for the quick reply. Two follow up questions ahah

1) Any tips on how to tell apart this bohemica (a.k.a serbica?) from cyanescens or azurescens?

2) How does this supposed larval damage affect consumption?


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich] * 1
    #26420518 - 01/07/20 09:55 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
Psilocybe bohemica.





I don't think P. bohemica has been found in Portugal, however P. azurescens is reported from Sintra. I think these look more like them.


--------------------




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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26420562 - 01/07/20 10:27 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

stickp1 said:
Thanks for the quick reply. Two follow up questions ahah

1) Any tips on how to tell apart this bohemica (a.k.a serbica?) from cyanescens or azurescens?

2) How does this supposed larval damage affect consumption?




1) DNA sequencing

2) higher protein content



Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Tangich said:
Psilocybe bohemica.





I don't think P. bohemica has been found in Portugal, however P. azurescens is reported from Sintra. I think these look more like them.



Really? I thought that azurescens had a very narrow range in the US so kinda dismissed it out of hand. And bohemica is very often associated with pine, and pine saplings are exported throughout Europe, it seems more likely that the spores would arrive from witgin Eurooe.


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
    #26420569 - 01/07/20 10:39 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Yeah I probably should have said that in part I said cyanescens or azurescens because these are the only two species ever reported in my area.

Obviously the species are distinguishable genetically otherwise they wouldn't be different species... I meant are different macroscopic features between these species discernible from the pictures?

And what the hell do you mean by higher protein content?


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
    #26420574 - 01/07/20 10:45 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

stickp1 said:
And what the hell do you mean by higher protein content?



The bugs. They are almost pure protein. :hehehe: no differences other than that.
Macroscopicall, I can only say that they are not cyanescens. Differentiating bohemica and azurescens by macroscopic differences alone is very difficult. I still say these are imported bohemica, the appearance and habitat fit 100%.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
    #26420593 - 01/07/20 10:59 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
Really? I thought that azurescens had a very narrow range in the US so kinda dismissed it out of hand.




Two reported finds, both in the same location, apparently in pine debris judging from the pictures:

https://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observation_search?pattern=psilocybe+azurescens+sintra

Other than that, finding woodloving Psilocybe species in Portugal is - so far - an anomaly.

Quote:


bohemica is very often associated with pine, and pine saplings are exported throughout Europe, it seems more likely that the spores would arrive from witgin Eurooe.




It is certainly possible. I don't know where in Portugal OP found these, but if it's in any of the more popular places
with high levels of tourism or travellers in general, I guess spores could arrive from almost anywhere.

*edit: seeing OP posted in another thread confirming s*he is indeed in the vicinity of Sintra, which makes this find
more interesting. Alan supposedly got his hands on the previously collected P. azurescens, but I don't know if he ever
got round to doing a DNA sequence.


Edited by Anglerfish (01/07/20 11:15 AM)


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26420631 - 01/07/20 11:26 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

This would be a very imteresting collection for further identification and DNA testing. It would be awesome if this turned out to be azurescens.


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26420672 - 01/07/20 11:56 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:

It is certainly possible. I don't know where in Portugal OP found these, but if it's in any of the more popular places
with high levels of tourism or travellers in general, I guess spores could arrive from almost anywhere.





Yep this catch was about a 15 min. walk from a place often visited by tourists, and the placed showed signs of human activity. On the other hand I have found what seemed to be the same species (although without the brown spots) on a different location, about 10-15 km from the touristic part of Sintra, althoug also by a path in the woods.

I should mention also that hunting mushrooms here is to my knowledge rare, and there is (if you care to notice) only 1-2 people in the Sintra region posting on mushroomobserver. I have, and this is the interesting part, a book on mushrooms of Sintra published (by an expert) in the last 5 years where cyanescens is listed as a newly discovered species of this region


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
    #26420685 - 01/07/20 12:04 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

I've seen 3-4 confirmed azure finds outside of the U.S. in the past year or 2


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
    #26420700 - 01/07/20 12:11 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

stickp1 said:
On the other hand I have found what seemed to be the same species (although without the brown spots) on a different location, about 10-15 km from the touristic part of Sintra, althoug also by a path in the woods.




Do you still have that collection? Any pictures of them in fresh conditon? I think you should try to get back
to the other location and check if you can find more of them, take lots of pictures and dry some specimens
for future analysis.

Quote:


I have, and this is the interesting part, a book on mushrooms of Sintra published (by an expert) in the last 5 years where cyanescens is listed as a newly discovered species of this region




Do you have the name of the book and the author?


--------------------




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OfflineTheDuder
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26420718 - 01/07/20 12:20 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Those sure look like azurescens, They even have the reddish stem color on the older ones. That spotting on the caps happens to azures alot too.


--------------------

|-------------------[Ps. Azurescens]------------------------------------------[Ps. Semilanceata]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Allenii]------------------------|


|--------------[Ps. Ovoideocystidiata]------------------------------------------[Ps. Stuntzii]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Baeocystis]----------------------|


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26420839 - 01/07/20 01:26 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

My friend, going back there almost daily! ahah hoping to find a big batch

Unfortunately, I haven't found anything major, but I always find 1-2 small ones, I know 2-3 places over a 100 meter path where I sometimes get lucky. Here are some pics, from different collections over a 2 week span in the same area (some these I didn't even know what I was doing or what kind of mushroom it was):



I am currently making some tentative drying of specimens with the few tools available, but I haven't got it right yet. I have at most 2 very dry specimens moving slowly towards the cracker-dry condition.

The name of the book is Cogumelos dos parques de Sintra (Mushrooms from Sintra parks) by João Luís Baptista-Ferreira and Sofia Gomes. It doesn't go into detail on each species in terms of how it got there or anything like that, just a picture and general characteristics.


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
    #26420911 - 01/07/20 02:01 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

These last pictures really do look like azurescens. This would be awesome, I have never even considered a possibility of P. azurescens growing in Europe!


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich] * 1
    #26421145 - 01/07/20 03:41 PM (2 years, 12 days ago)

The stipe on the second to last photo, that is way too blue to be anything other than azurescens


--------------------


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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Moria841]
    #26422004 - 01/07/20 11:08 PM (2 years, 12 days ago)

Very cool thread  :snoopyes:
Stickp1, have you thought about "feeding" them?


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: ZenZone]
    #26422714 - 01/08/20 12:36 PM (2 years, 12 days ago)

Sorry mr. Zone newb here, don't know what you mean...


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1] * 1
    #26423042 - 01/08/20 04:11 PM (2 years, 11 days ago)

I'm 99.999999% sure that they are Psilocybe azurescens, beautiful pictures.  Would you be willing to send me a spore print for my spore collection? If so, please label it with the species name, date of collection and general location (nearest city or town). If you can include 1-2 specimens I will have it sequenced to get an identification from DNA. All you need to do is send them and I will pay for the test or possibly even have it done at the local university.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Offlinestickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Doc9151]
    #26423197 - 01/08/20 05:47 PM (2 years, 11 days ago)

Yes I suppose can send you the spore prints from the pictures, together with 1 specimen from this harvest and 1 from the other location, which appear to me slightly different. I will pm you for details if you don't mind.


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