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stickp1
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Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap
#26420377 - 01/07/20 04:50 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Habitat: Near a fountain, 20m by the roadside on the periphery of some woods. Growing on dead wood (sometimes clearly, others appear to grow on soil but on closer inspection it's dead wood I believe). Don't know what kind of wood, but probably some sort of pinus
Gills: cream with a darker vibe coming from the cap underside, usually not running all the way
Stem: Abobut 5-10cm length, clearly white bruising blue
Cap: when younger the edge is turned down and looks hatlike, with a nipple on top but not spiky, when older starts flattening out, but usually maintaining the nipple.
Spore print color: That purplish-brown fosho
Bruising: Bruising blue (more on the stem than cap), but has some brown dots/spots on cap that are more noticeable for older mushrooms and present in some more than others
Other comments: There were growing mostly under leaves very close to the ground in a very humid place, although there has been no rain... Almost positive is azurescens, cyanescens may also be the case. The thing I would like above all is for some insight into these brown spots (I've heard larvae damage, water droplets, bacteria, etc. but all seemed speculation). Black squares are different mushrooms, felt it would be confusing to leave them.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26420382 - 01/07/20 04:53 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Psilocybe bohemica. Yeah, those brown spots are mist likely larval damage.
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
#26420513 - 01/07/20 07:52 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Thanks for the quick reply. Two follow up questions ahah
1) Any tips on how to tell apart this bohemica (a.k.a serbica?) from cyanescens or azurescens?
2) How does this supposed larval damage affect consumption?
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich] 1
#26420518 - 01/07/20 07:55 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tangich said: Psilocybe bohemica.
I don't think P. bohemica has been found in Portugal, however P. azurescens is reported from Sintra. I think these look more like them.
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★★★★★
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Tangich


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Posts: 8,723
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26420562 - 01/07/20 08:27 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
stickp1 said: Thanks for the quick reply. Two follow up questions ahah
1) Any tips on how to tell apart this bohemica (a.k.a serbica?) from cyanescens or azurescens?
2) How does this supposed larval damage affect consumption?
1) DNA sequencing
2) higher protein content
Quote:
Anglerfish said:
Quote:
Tangich said: Psilocybe bohemica.
I don't think P. bohemica has been found in Portugal, however P. azurescens is reported from Sintra. I think these look more like them.
Really? I thought that azurescens had a very narrow range in the US so kinda dismissed it out of hand. And bohemica is very often associated with pine, and pine saplings are exported throughout Europe, it seems more likely that the spores would arrive from witgin Eurooe.
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
#26420569 - 01/07/20 08:39 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Yeah I probably should have said that in part I said cyanescens or azurescens because these are the only two species ever reported in my area.
Obviously the species are distinguishable genetically otherwise they wouldn't be different species... I meant are different macroscopic features between these species discernible from the pictures?
And what the hell do you mean by higher protein content?
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26420574 - 01/07/20 08:45 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
stickp1 said: And what the hell do you mean by higher protein content?
The bugs. They are almost pure protein. no differences other than that. Macroscopicall, I can only say that they are not cyanescens. Differentiating bohemica and azurescens by macroscopic differences alone is very difficult. I still say these are imported bohemica, the appearance and habitat fit 100%.
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich]
#26420593 - 01/07/20 08:59 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tangich said: Really? I thought that azurescens had a very narrow range in the US so kinda dismissed it out of hand.
Two reported finds, both in the same location, apparently in pine debris judging from the pictures:
https://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observation_search?pattern=psilocybe+azurescens+sintra
Other than that, finding woodloving Psilocybe species in Portugal is - so far - an anomaly.
Quote:
bohemica is very often associated with pine, and pine saplings are exported throughout Europe, it seems more likely that the spores would arrive from witgin Eurooe.
It is certainly possible. I don't know where in Portugal OP found these, but if it's in any of the more popular places with high levels of tourism or travellers in general, I guess spores could arrive from almost anywhere.
*edit: seeing OP posted in another thread confirming s*he is indeed in the vicinity of Sintra, which makes this find more interesting. Alan supposedly got his hands on the previously collected P. azurescens, but I don't know if he ever got round to doing a DNA sequence.
Edited by Anglerfish (01/07/20 09:15 AM)
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26420631 - 01/07/20 09:26 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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This would be a very imteresting collection for further identification and DNA testing. It would be awesome if this turned out to be azurescens.
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26420672 - 01/07/20 09:56 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
It is certainly possible. I don't know where in Portugal OP found these, but if it's in any of the more popular places with high levels of tourism or travellers in general, I guess spores could arrive from almost anywhere.
Yep this catch was about a 15 min. walk from a place often visited by tourists, and the placed showed signs of human activity. On the other hand I have found what seemed to be the same species (although without the brown spots) on a different location, about 10-15 km from the touristic part of Sintra, althoug also by a path in the woods.
I should mention also that hunting mushrooms here is to my knowledge rare, and there is (if you care to notice) only 1-2 people in the Sintra region posting on mushroomobserver. I have, and this is the interesting part, a book on mushrooms of Sintra published (by an expert) in the last 5 years where cyanescens is listed as a newly discovered species of this region
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26420685 - 01/07/20 10:04 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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I've seen 3-4 confirmed azure finds outside of the U.S. in the past year or 2
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26420700 - 01/07/20 10:11 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
stickp1 said: On the other hand I have found what seemed to be the same species (although without the brown spots) on a different location, about 10-15 km from the touristic part of Sintra, althoug also by a path in the woods.
Do you still have that collection? Any pictures of them in fresh conditon? I think you should try to get back to the other location and check if you can find more of them, take lots of pictures and dry some specimens for future analysis.
Quote:
I have, and this is the interesting part, a book on mushrooms of Sintra published (by an expert) in the last 5 years where cyanescens is listed as a newly discovered species of this region
Do you have the name of the book and the author?
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TheDuder
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish] 1
#26420718 - 01/07/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Those sure look like azurescens, They even have the reddish stem color on the older ones. That spotting on the caps happens to azures alot too.
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|-------------------[Ps. Azurescens]------------------------------------------[Ps. Semilanceata]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Allenii]------------------------|
|--------------[Ps. Ovoideocystidiata]------------------------------------------[Ps. Stuntzii]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Baeocystis]----------------------|
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26420839 - 01/07/20 11:26 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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My friend, going back there almost daily! ahah hoping to find a big batch
Unfortunately, I haven't found anything major, but I always find 1-2 small ones, I know 2-3 places over a 100 meter path where I sometimes get lucky. Here are some pics, from different collections over a 2 week span in the same area (some these I didn't even know what I was doing or what kind of mushroom it was):
     
I am currently making some tentative drying of specimens with the few tools available, but I haven't got it right yet. I have at most 2 very dry specimens moving slowly towards the cracker-dry condition.
The name of the book is Cogumelos dos parques de Sintra (Mushrooms from Sintra parks) by João Luís Baptista-Ferreira and Sofia Gomes. It doesn't go into detail on each species in terms of how it got there or anything like that, just a picture and general characteristics.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26420911 - 01/07/20 12:01 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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These last pictures really do look like azurescens. This would be awesome, I have never even considered a possibility of P. azurescens growing in Europe!
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Moria841



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Tangich] 1
#26421145 - 01/07/20 01:41 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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The stipe on the second to last photo, that is way too blue to be anything other than azurescens
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Moria841]
#26422004 - 01/07/20 09:08 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Very cool thread  Stickp1, have you thought about "feeding" them?
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: ZenZone]
#26422714 - 01/08/20 10:36 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Sorry mr. Zone newb here, don't know what you mean...
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1] 1
#26423042 - 01/08/20 02:11 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I'm 99.999999% sure that they are Psilocybe azurescens, beautiful pictures. Would you be willing to send me a spore print for my spore collection? If so, please label it with the species name, date of collection and general location (nearest city or town). If you can include 1-2 specimens I will have it sequenced to get an identification from DNA. All you need to do is send them and I will pay for the test or possibly even have it done at the local university.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Doc9151]
#26423197 - 01/08/20 03:47 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yes I suppose can send you the spore prints from the pictures, together with 1 specimen from this harvest and 1 from the other location, which appear to me slightly different. I will pm you for details if you don't mind.
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26423298 - 01/08/20 05:00 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
stickp1 said: Sorry mr. Zone newb here, don't know what you mean...
By "feeding" them I meant that maybe you could spread some wood chips, woody debris, finely chopped wood in the are where they grow, so that they could thrive and by next season they would fruit in greater numbers
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: ZenZone]
#26423464 - 01/08/20 07:09 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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PM sent
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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stickp1
Stranger

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: ZenZone]
#26423942 - 01/09/20 03:49 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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I see now, thanks for clearing that up. I will definitely consider it!
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26423962 - 01/09/20 04:18 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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You should be able to get these sequenced in your neighbouring country at alvalab.es. I believe you need to request a DNA extraction plus an ITS sequence. It will probably cost you around 20 € plus postage.
Alan Rockefeller should however be able to give you the correct instructions for these procedures. Wondering why he hasn't chimed in on this thread. Maybe you should change the post title and include "possible P. azurescens" or something like that?
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★★★★★
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26425026 - 01/09/20 04:30 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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I pmed mr. Rockefeller.
Meanwhile caught a few more small caramels today, perhaps the rhizomorphs help to clarify what the species is. Also one of the fellows seemed like he was being used as substrate for something else...
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Anglerfish
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26426232 - 01/10/20 09:31 AM (4 years, 19 days ago) |
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Such ropey rhizomorphic mycelium is apparently characteristic of several of the woodloving species of Psilocybe.
That second picture looks really like P. azurescens though.
I really hope we get to the bottom of what this actually is.
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★★★★★
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adfhweaga
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26426336 - 01/10/20 11:11 AM (4 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: You should be able to get these sequenced in your neighbouring country at alvalab.es. I believe you need to request a DNA extraction plus an ITS sequence. It will probably cost you around 20 € plus postage.
Alan Rockefeller should however be able to give you the correct instructions for these procedures. Wondering why he hasn't chimed in on this thread. Maybe you should change the post title and include "possible P. azurescens" or something like that?
Wait, what. You can have any biological material sequenced for 20 EUR?!
I feel like I just traveled to the future! I had no idea. Super interesting.
Also I often go to Lisbon. I'm totally going to "visit Sintra". PM me if anybody wants to join
Edited by adfhweaga (01/10/20 11:11 AM)
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: adfhweaga]
#26427533 - 01/11/20 04:17 AM (4 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
adfhweaga said: Wait, what. You can have any biological material sequenced for 20 EUR?!
Just an estimate on the cost of extraction and a basic ITS sequence. More thorough analysis would obviously cost more. I never sent them anything myself, I got the prices from an associate.
It's all here, though:
http://www.alvalab.es/orders.html
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stickp1
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26448519 - 01/23/20 04:12 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Hello again fellas. Update on consumption.
Dried a few of these batches in the sun with a black t-shirt over them until cracker-dry after which stored them in a tupperware in fridge for a few days. See pictures below.
1st time:
Very low dose to check how I would react. ~0.5g was chopped with a knife and placed on steaming kettle water (w/ a bit of lemon juice) where it was steeped for 5-10 min. Only drank the water. T+1h Felt the body heavy and yawned a lot, had a little trouble concentrating on what I was doing. Heart rate seemed irregular for up to T+5h. Otherwise no effect. Bear in mind I have never tried Psilocybe before.
2nd time (2 days later):
~1g was chopped up. Placed in pan filled with water (+ bit lemon juice) on low heat and stirred intermittently until water was almost boiling (bubbles on the pan's surface), which took ~15 min. Felt pretty much the same as before with heavy body but almost unnoticeable. T+3h After going outside to smoke a cig I notice my eyelids feel heavy and overall my body feels slightly strange, mind is clear. T+4h Walking becomes strange like I have some problem with my legs (can't stop from swinging my hip when taking a step), but just walking normally, when jumping or running it disappears. I notice also that I can't blink my eyes properly, and the motor ability of my arms and hands seems affected, specially keeping arm/hand/finger raised for a few seconds, it started shaking and losing strength, a bit like if had fallen asleep on it.
I had heard of woodlover's paralysis, so I didn't worry a lot. In any case it was pretty disappointing to only experience what I had no interest in experiencing, and I will abstain from repeating such an experience. If anyone has any solid insight on how preparation can mitigate these effects while increasing the psychoactive compounds' concentration, or how in other parts of the process (picking, drying...) one can avoid this shit paralysis I would appreciate it. Or anything I may be doing wrong for that matter.
For now this little mofo will take a hiatus from experimenting with his bod...
  
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26448635 - 01/23/20 05:19 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Sounds weird. If these mushrooms are what we believe, you should at least get some kind of psychedelic effect. Maybe you're just immune in some way, apparently it happens to some people - given that you never have taken psilocybin previously. I'm kind of sensitive to it, and a half gram of liberty caps - that apparently are weaker than your assumed P. azurescens - will definitely make me trippy if not properly tripping.
Do you still have some dried material? Any chance you could send some to Alvalab for sequencing?
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★★★★★
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stickp1
Stranger
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26449707 - 01/24/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yes I still have some, and they are still appearing at one location. Yes I will do some research and perhaps try to get the sequencing done... Thanks for the feedback!
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#26449734 - 01/24/20 10:34 AM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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You're not taking any kind of medication regularly, are you?
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Shroomhunts
Hunter Gatherer



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Anglerfish]
#26449909 - 01/24/20 12:25 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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I have a buddy who can go to Walmart on 7g, some people are just naturally resistant to them
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      You never kno
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jonnyvanbatman
Portugal

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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Shroomhunts]
#26486685 - 02/15/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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iNaturalist Observations
Hey! I have been going to Sintra to identify mushrooms and will be start living there for my internship. I have been studying these supposed azurescens and am currently talking to someone who will analyze them and confirm a species that can be still not confirmed in Portugal. I added a link where i put all my observations and there are 4 or 5 from this species in the last months. Alan Rockefeller identified them as azurescens but in the older observations on Mushroom Observer that were made there is a discussion on wether these are azurescens or bohemica, and there are pictures of microscopy done by the guy who found them! If any of you know the microscopic features I would love to know some opinions, and I have a lot of photos on my observations that can help.
Glad there are other people interested and looking forward to learn more about psilocybes in Portugal!
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: jonnyvanbatman]
#26486772 - 02/15/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonnyvanbatman said: iNaturalist Observations
Hey! I have been going to Sintra to identify mushrooms and will be start living there for my internship. I have been studying these supposed azurescens and am currently talking to someone who will analyze them and confirm a species that can be still not confirmed in Portugal. I added a link where i put all my observations and there are 4 or 5 from this species in the last months. Alan Rockefeller identified them as azurescens but in the older observations on Mushroom Observer that were made there is a discussion on wether these are azurescens or bohemica, and there are pictures of microscopy done by the guy who found them! If any of you know the microscopic features I would love to know some opinions, and I have a lot of photos on my observations that can help.
Glad there are other people interested and looking forward to learn more about psilocybes in Portugal!
if this person doesn't come through, I will be willing to pay for the ITS sequencing to get an answer. PM me if it doesn't work out, it's worth the $15-$20 in my opinion to see what they are and expand the known distribution ranges.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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stickp1
Stranger
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: jonnyvanbatman]
#26487041 - 02/15/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey there jonny, very good to hear from you! From what I see, we have been going to very similar places just a few days apart ahah Funny enough I am also waiting for confirmation on the exact species, as I don’t have the tools myself. I will share as soon as I am able. Feel free to pm me, I feel there is plenty to discuss!
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adfhweaga
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Doc9151]
#26558980 - 03/26/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said:
Quote:
jonnyvanbatman said: iNaturalist Observations
Hey! I have been going to Sintra to identify mushrooms and will be start living there for my internship. I have been studying these supposed azurescens and am currently talking to someone who will analyze them and confirm a species that can be still not confirmed in Portugal. I added a link where i put all my observations and there are 4 or 5 from this species in the last months. Alan Rockefeller identified them as azurescens but in the older observations on Mushroom Observer that were made there is a discussion on wether these are azurescens or bohemica, and there are pictures of microscopy done by the guy who found them! If any of you know the microscopic features I would love to know some opinions, and I have a lot of photos on my observations that can help.
Glad there are other people interested and looking forward to learn more about psilocybes in Portugal!
if this person doesn't come through, I will be willing to pay for the ITS sequencing to get an answer. PM me if it doesn't work out, it's worth the $15-$20 in my opinion to see what they are and expand the known distribution ranges.
I'll put in 10 EUR on top of that.
It would be super cool that the shroom grows in Portugal. What Portugal season would it grow in best?
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SarahP
beginner

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Loc: Portugal
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#27355622 - 06/19/21 08:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi, I live near Sintra.
Any news about this?
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Lalalaaz
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Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: stickp1]
#27568928 - 12/04/21 10:58 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Found this in Sintra today…
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Doc9151
Mycologist


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Portugal Hunting & Brown spots on cap [Re: Lalalaaz] 1
#27571411 - 12/06/21 01:31 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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That looks like a weathered Psilocybe azurescens.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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