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nolpspj
Stranger
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Field capacity question
#26420054 - 01/06/20 09:11 PM (4 years, 23 days ago) |
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Hey all!! So I’m trying to wet some coir and horse manure before baking it to sterilize. How much water should I be using to get 5 pounds coir and 5 pound horse manure mixture to field capacity. I heard if it’s too wet or dry it will be ruined and I don’t want to screw it up, any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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Cybin_man
Circle the Wagons


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Re: Field capacity question [Re: nolpspj]
#26420068 - 01/06/20 09:20 PM (4 years, 23 days ago) |
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Not sure on the amount of water for that specific sub you’re talking about but this is what it should look like with coir. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25087128
-------------------- mushrooms + my morning jacket = awesome https://youtu.be/xkY4isMi2Zc
 
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Field capacity question [Re: Cybin_man]
#26420087 - 01/06/20 09:30 PM (4 years, 23 days ago) |
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Sterilizing poo/composts usually leads to moldtown.
Just use all coir. I've been liking 2.25qts water per brick.
Dont buy premade either make it yourself for cheeeap
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FeedYourMind
indiGlo



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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26420094 - 01/06/20 09:34 PM (4 years, 23 days ago) |
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You should definitely pasteurize your manure between 140F-160F for 60-90min. Buy some vermiculite, that way if you accidentally do make it on the wet side you can dry it up to field capacity. Also, add water slowly or a little bit at a time and you will lessen your chances of being over too much or little.
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26420161 - 01/06/20 10:36 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: Sterilizing poo/composts usually leads to moldtown.
Just use all coir. I've been liking 2.25qts water per brick.
Dont buy premade either make it yourself for cheeeap
100% Coco
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nolpspj
Stranger
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: Cybin_man]
#26420185 - 01/06/20 11:07 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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That doesn’t look like a lot of water coming out, like only a few drops. So I shouldn’t douse it or anything just make sure it’s moist?
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: nolpspj]
#26420206 - 01/06/20 11:39 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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You only want 1 drip to come out when you squeeze a handful as hard as you can squeeze
That's the standard definition of field capacity around here. Some might say it's just under 1 drip.
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: YogiBear]
#26420381 - 01/07/20 04:52 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Thats not really the standard definition. That would be considered dryer than field capacity.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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 I feel like yogi literally just made that up
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Neowynd8

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Re: Field capacity question [Re: bodhisatta]
#26420484 - 01/07/20 07:01 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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I'd rather it bit a tad dry than too wet.
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: bodhisatta]
#26420564 - 01/07/20 08:33 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
 I feel like yogi literally just made that up
I'm sorry guys I thought that is what everyone was saying to do...
Like on ShaperDreamings animated gif on the shoebox thread....
I do mine right at 1 drop and get great fruits.
Sorry for misunderstanding and giving inferior information 🤭
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KnownGnome
Ghost

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Re: Field capacity question [Re: YogiBear]
#26420578 - 01/07/20 08:47 AM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
YogiBear said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
 I feel like yogi literally just made that up
Like on ShaperDreamings animated gif on the shoebox thread....
We still love you. I think the confusion might be that Shaper's gif shows under field capacity followed by a top soak.
So while it is squeezed hard to only one drop: 
It has moisture added again in the end: 
You all already know this, though. Keep doing whatever works for you.
-------------------- Driven by delusion and attachment, slaves to gratification of their senses, foolish men perform many acts for the sake of the penis and the stomach.
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: KnownGnome]
#26422368 - 01/08/20 05:01 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
KnownGnome said:
Quote:
YogiBear said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
 I feel like yogi literally just made that up
Like on ShaperDreamings animated gif on the shoebox thread....
We still love you. I think the confusion might be that Shaper's gif shows under field capacity followed by a top soak.
So while it is squeezed hard to only one drop: 
It has moisture added again in the end: 
You all already know this, though. Keep doing whatever works for you.

When I used RR's definition of FC I get nothing but trouble. The green meany, moldy/musty smelling trays with just coco and I wasn't even misting them.
When I went to ShaperDreamings method I get no musty smell and great flushes.
I use a whole different method of saying this to other people...
I use the term FC to give the general definition that it's holding water and the amount of drips is the level of FC
1 drip field capacity 3 drip field capacity 10-12 drip field capacity (RR video from what I could see) Etc
When I went to a 1-3 drip FC on my spawn/sub mix then cased at spawn and soaked like Shaper does my flushes were perfect especially when using a liner and no more issues with musty/moldy smelling sub blocks.
That's why I tell people to use it right around 1-3 drips as a general rule and case at spawn.
to-ma-to to-MA-to
Too bad that after 23 years (1997-2020) that we don't have a definitive video or thread to help noobs with this first and most simple concept.
I'm not a Trusted Cultivator or I'd make one myself 😎👍
Mush Love!
Edited by YogiBear (01/08/20 05:40 AM)
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Field capacity question [Re: bodhisatta]
#26422489 - 01/08/20 08:04 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
YogiBear said:
1 drip field capacity 3 drip field capacity 10-12 drip field capacity
You mean..
Slightly under capacity(dry and good) About capacity(also good) Way over capacity(soaking mess)
Different bricks hold different amounts. Different hands squeeze at relatively different strengths. It's a guideline not baking instructions. I like shapers write up a lot but that gif always confused me. Make something dry only to soak 10 seconds later..? just prep your sub slightly wetter
I think bod was right
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McDominator



Registered: 08/29/19
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26422501 - 01/08/20 08:15 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yea, field capacity was one of the things I botched slightly on my first grow due to the wishy washy definition and variability involved. I think that first video of coir field capacity is probably the best one I have seen. I have question on that though. If I add verm, does that make this coir only field capacity demonstration invalid for a coir/verm mix?
-------------------- I'm here to learn. I'm also willing to help. If I'm wrong on something, please call me out. I am not resistant to new information, but I always carry a healthy dose of skepticism. “It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure.” -Albert Einstein
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mushboy
modboy



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Well.. if you test field capacity of coir then add verm it's no longer capacity.
Why would you do that? Add all ingredients. Squeeze test. Retire by age 65.
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YogiBear



Registered: 08/24/19
Posts: 845
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26422549 - 01/08/20 09:02 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
YogiBear said:
1 drip field capacity 3 drip field capacity 10-12 drip field capacity (RRs Hpoo Video)
You mean..
Slightly under capacity(dry and good) - ( 1 drip ) About capacity(also good) - ( 3 drip ) Way over capacity(soaking mess) -( 10 drip )
Different bricks hold different amounts. Different hands squeeze at relatively different strengths. It's a guideline not baking instructions. I like shapers write up a lot but that gif always confused me. Make something dry only to soak 10 seconds later..? just prep your sub slightly wetter 
So would you like this the definitive post that I can lead noobs to? Or should we made one big single post somewhere to point them to?
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McDominator



Registered: 08/29/19
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26422562 - 01/08/20 09:12 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: Well.. if you test field capacity of coir then add verm it's no longer capacity.
Why would you do that? Add all ingredients. Squeeze test. Retire by age 65.
I love how frank you are, makes me giggle. 
I guess I didn't word correctly, but I think you answered my question. I guess my question was: Should the amount of water coming out on the squeeze look the same as the video if it is a coir/verm mix. The video is described as the field capacity of coir, not coir/verm. I didn't know if there was a distinction.
-------------------- I'm here to learn. I'm also willing to help. If I'm wrong on something, please call me out. I am not resistant to new information, but I always carry a healthy dose of skepticism. “It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure.” -Albert Einstein
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Field capacity question [Re: YogiBear]
#26422568 - 01/08/20 09:17 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Why does it have to be definitive? Field capacity isnt definitive it's something each grower needs to figure out because bricks are different ect..
Tell noobs to FITFO
figure it the fuck out
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: mushboy]
#26422594 - 01/08/20 09:42 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: ............... Retire by age 65.

I don't believe I've ever had issues with field capacity after watching RR videos.
I usually check it by squeezing only slightly at first, if I see a drop or two come out at this point - it's usually alright. Then I give that shit the grip of death and I usually get a trickle that lasts about a second or so.
Then I spawn like usual. I use 4 quarts water, 2 quarts verm, one brick of coir (approx 600 grams or so). I don't think I have EVER seen two bricks of coir weigh the same. I've seen some 800 gram bricks of coir at times - there's no way using 4 quarts water, 2 quarts vermiculite, 800 gram brick of coir is going to have the same field capacity as the 600 gram brick. That's like a 30% increase in coir in the recipe (if I cans do math's).
So yeah, field capacity isn't a recipe - it's like a jedi thing in my opinion. Honestly though, after spawning a few tubs - it's fairly easy to gauge.
(also) I think clean grain spawn was probably one of the harder things for beginner mycologists to grasp - it definitely was for me. I've seen so many MS syringes knocking up grain - and I know for a fact that shit be dirrty like my search history.
Sometimes I still get a dirty jar here and there - but learning to be patient with your agar, exercise really good sterility in the SAB, keeping a lot of alcohol on hand, not cutting corners....all this has to be done for you to have clean grain spawn. IMO that was a lot harder for me at the beginning...
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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: nolpspj]
#26422876 - 01/08/20 12:24 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Field capacity for me = very brief, small stream but my results are subjective because of hand strength, climate, etc. Others might fuck their tubs up doing it as wet as me. I still consider my dryer subs "field capacity" if water drips out of them during a squeeze. IMO the more water in the sub, the more likely you'll get good results (unless it's waterlogged). It has been kind odd seeing folks recommend 2-2.5qts water for coir only monotubs just because I would assume most water is used up by the first flush but hey whatever works, right..? I personally use 3.5qt water to 1 brick coir and 2qt verm.
Verm helps keep the surface conditions balanced and from getting too problematic if the substrate is on the underhydrated/overhydrated side so I always recommend verm for those having trouble finding consistency with their pinset and surface conditions.
Practice until you find your sweet spot.
Edited by Psicomb (01/08/20 12:28 PM)
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!


Registered: 07/06/16
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: Psicomb]
#26422893 - 01/08/20 12:37 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psicomvb said:
Verm helps keep the surface conditions balanced and from getting too problematic if the substrate is on the underhydrated/overhydrated side so I always recommend verm for those having trouble finding consistency with their pinset and surface conditions.
Practice until you find your sweet spot.
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A.k.a
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: morty422]
#26422973 - 01/08/20 01:29 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I can’t recall what exactly I had read and watched about field cap but I know it said you should be able to squeeze as hard as possible and get a drop or two. Idk if that’s wrong or it’s because I’m a big person or who knows why but my coir was way too dry.
Now I keep it so that if I squeeze it hard a small stream of drops will drip for maybe a second and it’s made the most difference of anything I’ve done. Most importantly for me it made it so I don’t need to mist at all, so no more monitoring conditions worrying about drying out. Which also means no overmisting or screwing the surface in any way.
The tough thing about having so much good info on here is that if you get something wrong stuck in your head or even something that just happens to not work for your space, you won’t know what to change up. When I follow 20 steps in a tek and 19 go perfectly I assume the 20th didn’t go well because I messed up.
That’s a good problem though.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (01/08/20 01:31 PM)
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myco_fun
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: A.k.a]
#26422995 - 01/08/20 01:42 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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I switched over the pre-shredded coir. This stuff: https://www.chewy.com/zoo-med-eco-earth-loose-coconut/dp/123772?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Zoo%20Med&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj7S0qO705gIVxZ6zCh25eQn5EAQYAiABEgKAjvD_BwE
I understand that field capacity is determined via squeezing and observing.
But can someone give me a recipe to start with when using the loose coir?
I'm currently thinking:
200 g coir 75 g verm 2.5 C boiling water
It's for a small scale...no need to use a whole coir brick.
Thanks!
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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: myco_fun]
#26423000 - 01/08/20 01:44 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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The loose coir varies in dampness so it's hard to say. I dunno what 200g loose coir equates to dry.
At this point the best method is to just feel it out. Just add water and a little verm until it hits that "field capacity" point you see in the videos.
With the bricks you can always scale down with equal results, like 1.75qt water, 1qt verm, 325g coir to get 4 quarts of substrate rather than ~8, for example
--------------------
When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (01/08/20 01:46 PM)
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

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Posts: 2,717
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: Psicomb]
#26423016 - 01/08/20 01:55 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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My current method is to overhydrate the coir so it’s a nice slurry when mixxed, then grabbing a handful, squeezing moderately into another bucket and rubbing it back and forth into a third bucket. (Once the overhydrated coir is soup, it gets poured through a colander strainer.) This always leaves things in a wet but fluffy manner. I started doing this after finding dry spots inside larger pieces when using just enough water.
It’s also why I can’t really give any measurements as I would need to weigh things before and after to know how much water remains.
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myco_fun
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: Psicomb]
#26423019 - 01/08/20 01:55 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psicomvb said: The loose coir varies in dampness so it's hard to say. I dunno what 200g loose coir equates to dry.
At this point the best method is to just feel it out. Just add water and a little verm until it hits that "field capacity" point you see in the videos.
With the bricks you can always scale down with equal results, like 1.75qt water, 1qt verm, 325g coir to get 4 quarts of substrate rather than ~8, for example
thanks! I will test a small amount of coir now for field capacity.
For the verm - looks like 70 grams is about 2.5 cups. So for 2.5 C verm...it will take 1.25 C water to get to field capacity?
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myco_fun
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Re: Field capacity question [Re: myco_fun]
#26423062 - 01/08/20 02:21 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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just did a little test...for those interested, for the loose coir stuff I have on hand...
200 g (which is roughly 6.25 C not packed down) takes 1.3 - 1.43 C water to reach field capacity.
So does this recipe look like a good starting point for the bucket tek?
- 200 g loose coir - 2.5 C verm - 1.33 C + 1.25 C boiling water
Will test via squeezing after 15-20 minutes....to see if a drop squeezes out. If not, 1 (or 2 tablespoons max) of boiling water can be added until a drop squeezes out.
Sound reasonable?
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