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Offlineshambler
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casing layer question
    #26417272 - 01/05/20 10:06 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

its been a long time since i have been on here (the shroomery) and it looks like casing layers are not as popular as they used to be. i always
did 10 or 18 gallon totes with pasteurized horse poo, and of course a casing layer. if i ever get back to it, a casing layer isn't necessary?
And not many people was using coir for a sub, not having to pasteurize coir makes it a lot easier.  thanks


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: casing layer question [Re: shambler]
    #26417278 - 01/05/20 10:11 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Yeah most people just do about a 1/3 inch layer of coir on top in place of an actual casing. Unless it’s pe.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: casing layer question [Re: shambler]
    #26417280 - 01/05/20 10:14 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

No its not necessary but it can help. The reason being is it helps maintain surface moisture. This helped me before I had a better idea on regulating moisture. I'm only on my second successful bulk grow so not enough experience for thorough advice. Seen plenty of success without it.


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Offlineshambler
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Re: casing layer question [Re: A.k.a]
    #26417284 - 01/05/20 10:18 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

OK, thanks for the quick reply


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: shambler]
    #26417311 - 01/05/20 10:37 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

I feel a casing leads to contamination issues. I never use one unless its required.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417354 - 01/05/20 10:54 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Casing doesn't lead to contamination..


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: casing layer question [Re: filthyknees]
    #26417375 - 01/05/20 11:02 AM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

filthyknees said:
Casing doesn't lead to contamination..




Yeah he says a lot of random stuff.

Why would you feel it leads to contams? Just personal experience?


--------------------
LAGM2020


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OfflineHighHarles
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417487 - 01/05/20 12:30 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Diego said:
I feel a casing leads to contamination issues. I never use one unless its required.



Only thing that I could think that would support this is adding a casing in combination with over misting / having it at an above ideal field capacity. Excess of moisture is usually one of the bigger contributors to contams. Then again that's more dependent on the quality of your spawn
Edit:
:shrug:


Edited by HighHarles (01/05/20 12:30 PM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: casing layer question [Re: HighHarles]
    #26417494 - 01/05/20 12:33 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

The only issue I had with casing was the very first grow I did. The tek said to sterilize the peat which actually makes it more vulnerable to contamination.

Besides that it’s whatever I mostly do top layers.

Although most of my best pin sets have been with casings.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: HighHarles]
    #26417506 - 01/05/20 12:40 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Longer colonization times. Ive used straight verm with no issue. It's always been coir that ive had contaminate.If i dont case I can get 4 or 5 flushes off of my Monos so its not in my sterilization. I also used the same brand of coir in both the sub and casing. I used an uncased dub as a control(which fruited faster and more abundantly).


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417564 - 01/05/20 01:30 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)


Spawn quality is not an issue with me. Do you think that if peat contaminates quicker because of sterilazion that the coir could do the same through pasteurization?


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417619 - 01/05/20 02:05 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

From what I understand peat needs to be pasteurized also. I guess it has its own microbiome that keeps it clean so if you sterilize it everything dies and then it’s wide open for whatever happens to land on it.

I think it’s the same deal with coir. Although my last handful of shoeboxes I just used hot water in a bucket to make the coir and Cased with jiffy 5050 mix right from the bag with no problems.

Definitely not the best practice but now that I’ve got the basics down I keep trying different things to see what’s absolutely necessary and where I can cut corners if needed.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: A.k.a]
    #26417628 - 01/05/20 02:11 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Everyone says coir cant contaminate but it did out of 3/9 tubs. The other two were 3 no casing and 3 verm casing. All of them were a straight coir sub prepared at the same time. It had to be the coir that contaminated. Green spored mold.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417641 - 01/05/20 02:19 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

I think some types of coir come with trich in them because it helps plants too. As long as it’s pet store coir it should be ok though. 

What do you use instead  of coir?


--------------------
LAGM2020


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: A.k.a]
    #26417670 - 01/05/20 02:35 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

I got a bunch of coir at Wal-Mart. It was like 3 or 4 of those reptile bricks. They had it on sale for $2.50 when the off season started. Was labelled expandable soil. Nothing else other than the casings tammed out. I used this exact same brand for the substrate in all the tubs and other grows since with no contamination issues. I feel its because the coir doesnt completely colonize. All casing contamination came after the first time i opened the tubs for cropping. I have since stopped using a casing because i concluded from my results that coir casings contaminate and I dont like eating verm from a straight verm casing.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: casing layer question [Re: filthyknees]
    #26417676 - 01/05/20 02:40 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Casings work great...if the right materials are used and are prepared properly. I use peat based casings with a high ph, and pasteurize. Zero issues...providing that the grain spawn used to inoculate the substrate is not contaminated.

Although casings are not always nessecary, they are a nice tool to have in the tool box. Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly, or it will act as a deficit to your project instead of an asset.


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #26417700 - 01/05/20 02:54 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Casings work great...if the right materials are used and are prepared properly. I use peat based casings with a high ph, and pasteurize. Zero issues...providing that the grain spawn used to inoculate the substrate is not contaminated.

Although casings are not always nessecary, they are a nice tool to have in the tool box. Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly, or it will act as a deficit to your project instead of an asset.



Do you have alot of flushes with that high ph casing? Stamets says in The Mushroom Cultivator "an overly acidic or alkaline casing mixture depresses mycelial growth and supports competitors".


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417769 - 01/05/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Diego said:

Spawn quality is not an issue with me. Do you think that if peat contaminates quicker because of sterilazion that the coir could do the same through pasteurization?



That doesn't look healthy


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: cronicr]
    #26417779 - 01/05/20 03:33 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

Diego said:

Spawn quality is not an issue with me. Do you think that if peat contaminates quicker because of sterilazion that the coir could do the same through pasteurization?



That doesn't look healthy



What about it? I didnt have any issues with it


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417785 - 01/05/20 03:38 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

We both know that jar is just fine


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego] * 1
    #26417789 - 01/05/20 03:42 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Diego said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Casings work great...if the right materials are used and are prepared properly. I use peat based casings with a high ph, and pasteurize. Zero issues...providing that the grain spawn used to inoculate the substrate is not contaminated.

Although casings are not always nessecary, they are a nice tool to have in the tool box. Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly, or it will act as a deficit to your project instead of an asset.



Do you have alot of flushes with that high ph casing? Stamets says in The Mushroom Cultivator "an overly acidic or alkaline casing mixture depresses mycelial growth and supports competitors".




Quite the opposite. Mushroom mycelium can tolerate higher ph a lot better than competitor molds. Btw, fuck the cultivator. That book was relevant 36 years ago.


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #26417791 - 01/05/20 03:43 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

Diego said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Casings work great...if the right materials are used and are prepared properly. I use peat based casings with a high ph, and pasteurize. Zero issues...providing that the grain spawn used to inoculate the substrate is not contaminated.

Although casings are not always nessecary, they are a nice tool to have in the tool box. Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly, or it will act as a deficit to your project instead of an asset.



Do you have alot of flushes with that high ph casing? Stamets says in The Mushroom Cultivator "an overly acidic or alkaline casing mixture depresses mycelial growth and supports competitors".




Quite the opposite. Mushroom mycelium can tolerate higher ph a lot better than competitor molds. Btw, fuck the cultivator. That book was relevant 36 years ago.



Hasnt done wrong by me whatsoever.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26417913 - 01/05/20 04:48 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Diego said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

Diego said:

Spawn quality is not an issue with me. Do you think that if peat contaminates quicker because of sterilazion that the coir could do the same through pasteurization?



That doesn't look healthy



What about it? I didnt have any issues with it



Ok


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: casing layer question [Re: cronicr]
    #26418019 - 01/05/20 05:37 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

if your getting contams before first flush ur spawn is shit no if ands or buts about it no matter what the sub is made from


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



Edited by jcm4620 (01/05/20 05:38 PM)


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: casing layer question [Re: cronicr]
    #26418025 - 01/05/20 05:40 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

Diego said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

Diego said:

Spawn quality is not an issue with me. Do you think that if peat contaminates quicker because of sterilazion that the coir could do the same through pasteurization?



That doesn't look healthy



What about it? I didnt have any issues with it



Ok



that shit looks bacterial and stressed as hell if u ask me


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418026 - 01/05/20 05:41 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
if your getting contams before first flush ur spawn is shit no if ands or buts about it no matter what the sub is made from



I clearly said after the first cropping. Once I inoculate i don't open again until cropping.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418032 - 01/05/20 05:44 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

My experinence with bacteria, is the grain gets clear slime and wont colonize. The results are there in my sig


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


Edited by Diego (01/05/20 05:46 PM)


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26418038 - 01/05/20 05:48 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

where u say that at i dont c that on here at all maybe u should put some peroxide on it. lol this dude just wants to argue with ppl. were beatin a dead horse here fellas and words of advice stammets is a hack around these parts


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



Edited by jcm4620 (01/05/20 05:51 PM)


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418043 - 01/05/20 05:49 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

all i c in ur sig is a bunch of overly saturated fruits that look like u just took a garden hose to em


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418051 - 01/05/20 05:53 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

I sure hope your day gets better dude


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26418054 - 01/05/20 05:55 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

If you only open your monos to crop then yes moisture gathers and falls off the lid.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418055 - 01/05/20 05:56 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

cron il let u do the honors my friend im done. as i stated in another thread and now this one he is only here to act like a know it all and argue with ppl. his post history proves as much


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: jcm4620]
    #26418062 - 01/05/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Peace.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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InvisibleDiego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
Re: casing layer question [Re: Diego]
    #26418065 - 01/05/20 06:01 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Why do you find that to be bacterial and shitty? Please change my mind. Hopefully I'll learn something.


--------------------
Some do it for the income
But we do it for the outcome
Some of us are active
While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5


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