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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Crackatoa]
    #26838895 - 07/22/20 05:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Slight development with my shoebox. One started pinning on the bottom a few days ago. Today I was peeling off some myc and suddenly one of the bigger poofs was solid. Like a softer PE blob with myc fur.


This stuff is so strange.


The sketchy clone wedge I dropped five days ago seems to be taking off so far.


Idk what to do with these shoeboxes anymore. I’m thinking tear the liner off the one with pins and put it in an hc. The other is pushing a month old with no pins anywhere.


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26838909 - 07/22/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'm starting to notice a difference in myc growth. Like pans thin and wispy is working better. I have my nat shoebox and my nat clone that I had rhizo growth with unlike my original culture. The SB on the left was OG and the right is clone. The left is acting nicely and giving me top layer colonization and knotting and the other is starting to do the overlay thing.

Here is the difference in grain colonization


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Crack's Tek's and Shit


Edited by Crackatoa (07/22/20 05:47 PM)

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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #26839660 - 07/23/20 12:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Here's the mono I spawned to straight out of the bag BK 5 days ago. I expect that it will colonize fully but probably will never fruit. It was the last of the culture I had going that just turned to garbage.



I don't want to downplay Psilo's success in any way but I think we can assess from his grow that there really isn't much need to be experimenting much with different substrates, straregies, etc. It all boils down to selecting the right genetics to fruit well without overlay.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26839838 - 07/23/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I still think there’s stuff to be figured out. I think if you select the right genetics it’ll grow great as we’ve seen but it doesn’t make sense to me that viable genetics would be so uncommon. I just feel like we’re missing a piece here that would make it grow much more consistently.

I’ve never had five quarts of spawn in four different tubs with zero pins on the surface and only a handful on the bottom of two tubs. My shoeboxes are officially 30 days old today with one having five or six tiny growths on the bottom.


I just shook my clone jar up it should be done quick I let it go further than normal. Clones should fruit way better right? Has anybody had one that wouldn’t? I know grim had that crazy overlay one at first but it still put up those thick gnarly shrooms.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26839952 - 07/23/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah that's the Clone I just spawned to BK. It did pretty decent for a while and then just didn't want to fruit anymore. I don't have high expectations for it but didn't want to throw clean spawn in the garbage so I went with the BK I have like 200 lb of that stuff sitting around.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26844047 - 07/25/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This clone blew up after shaking I’m kinda surprised. It’s looking way different than any of the other jars I did so I’m thinking it’ll do it better. This is like a day and a half post shake.



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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26844529 - 07/25/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Just flipped my sub, finally gave up on surface pins :shrug:



32 days and that’s the entire pinset :lol:


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Edited by A.k.a (07/25/20 12:07 PM)

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Crackatoa]
    #26844868 - 07/25/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
Cube's can only mate with cubes. If you did get a cross it would have to be a cube. BUT.... Cloning this tonight. Only a few of my fruits come out with this look. Clone it and pop it :lol:





This is not correct, i always thought that was the case but you are using the animals definition of a species here, it works differently with fungi.
Mating compatibility does not actually tell you whether you have the same species with mushrooms. Different species can hybridize and different varieties of the same species could potentially be unable to mate.

But as said, still quite curious. :smile: And ofc i am not saying there is zero correlation.

I am millimeters away from cultures meeting on agar haha.. they don't really look alike.

Hopefully i can get some assistance with looking at microscopic features of natalensis and some cubes, and do what I can to address this question of 'is it a cube or not?' and try to elucidate/disseminate the why of that. Too many misconceptions, we all need to look more closely, at least if interested in what taxonomy has to say about it.

good luck with your clone, thats badass :wink:

My spawn is about colonized, great looking myc :laugh:

Edited by Solipsis (07/25/20 04:16 PM)

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Solipsis]
    #26844871 - 07/25/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What species can cross?

The only time I’ve heard that for sure they had to use snake venom to weaken the cells.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26844885 - 07/25/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

No idea about actives but apparently different Pleurotus species can, have read studies about it and there was no mention of any such method for production of protoplasts. Am working on such hybrids currently, actually.
I found all of this really tough to swallow myself about the species boundaries, but I'm talking with great guys like Alan about this to get at least that bit of understanding about fungal taxonomy, so i'm with ya on the skepticism.
Cause I wanna try to contribute to some of these questions, also about like aztecorum vs pseudoaztecorum, the status of weraroa subsecotioides and more.

The bottomline is you cannot use only mating studies as your only criterium for telling species apart or not, things would have been quite a bit more simple if that were the case. I can't explain to you why they don't use this sort of definition of species with fungi but it seems that it just wouldn't be a very meaningful way to define it compared to how they do it now. I guess it would be misleading cause there are a lot broader ways to characterize and group them together.

I would like more answers about snake venom myself (beyond the basics of protoplast fusion) cause i find it vague myself and it is apparently still very early to say all that much about the full implications.

Edited by Solipsis (07/25/20 04:29 PM)

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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26844896 - 07/25/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
What species can cross?

The only time I’ve heard that for sure they had to use snake venom to weaken the cells.




With recent gene studies, Alan Rockefeller has suggested that cubes and ovoids may be able to cross


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: One of Us]
    #26845430 - 07/26/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Didnt jakeoncid cross 2 different pan species recently?

I think (at least) lots of the closely related stuff probably has potential to cross

Id be interested in whether or not tamps and mexicana can be crossed, azurecens and p cyan or p sub


Even in animals it gets weird, look at the paddlefish sturgeon hybrids

We are still waiting to find out if natalensis is a new species or not?

Can anyone verify if the myc smells the same as cubes?


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OfflinePsiloPsychIn
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26845459 - 07/26/20 03:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Sad News... that epic first flush tub has no hope for a second flush. I chose to use scissors to harvest (which I almost never do - I'm a twist and pull guy) and as I feared all those cut stumps were a magnet for bacteria and it just turned into a slimy smelly mess! I have another colonized bag of that culture that I will spawn next week... maybe we'll get another good show. Fingers Crossed.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: PsiloPsychIn]
    #26845660 - 07/26/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've always cut these Psilo the Nat is pretty destructive to the sub when I twist/pull but I've also never had a canopy as dense as yours.

Speaking of crosses I finally have my spawn timing right. I'm a day or two away from spawning some Melmac and Natal together.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26845708 - 07/26/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yup. Smells like cubes.

inoculated some wbs for the first time 2 days ago with my syringe I made from my first spore print from my natals. Probably not gonna work out, but holding thumbs.

Edited by Momorush (07/26/20 09:06 AM)

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26845712 - 07/26/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

OHhhh shit lol. Melmak cross would be nuts.

The myc smells a little different to me but it’s also pretty old now. I didn’t really notice a smell at first with it. Like cubes as soon as I mist I just smell myc super strong but not with natal.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #26845749 - 07/26/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

this looks interesting. did anyone ever find out if it's a cube or not?

also, does anyone have a spare print? I could trade some no. 11 scalpel blades. :pm: if interested.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Tight Lunchbox] * 1
    #26845946 - 07/26/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I can put some agar tissue under the scope, but I am going to have to slant them for now as apparently I am moving and have shut down operations of cultivation. If you guys want let me know and I can post some Nat myclieum photos.

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: One of Us]
    #26846071 - 07/26/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

One of Us said:
Quote:

A.k.a said:
What species can cross?

The only time I’ve heard that for sure they had to use snake venom to weaken the cells.




With recent gene studies, Alan Rockefeller has suggested that cubes and ovoids may be able to cross




Oh cool thnx thats very interesting, might have to try that too then..

Still currently awaiting the results of even doing just cube x cube crosses to begin with and that i'm not just crazy thinking they are monokaryons thu my microscope xD - any day now.
Capability of a cube monokaryon to make then make such a normal cross should then rule out other reasons, when crossed against natalensis. trying to cross natalensis x cube too currently, there should be contact right about now :smile:

I dont think agar tissues under the scope will do much good, we would be talking about microscopic characteristics of fruiting bodies, the cystidia, basidia. To say anything about the taxonomy of natalensis vs cube. We will in any case probably heavily need the advice from Alan or whomever can/will offer it.

Will put fruiting bodies under the scope as soon as i have em :smile: altho i am still relatively a noob at it - i can make microscope photos though so that should help with the support.
I will also have a sample to submit for DNA analysis once i get fruits, unless one of you guys has that covered in the meanwhile.

Spawning a qt within next couple days, gotta say pretty excited xD

Edited by Solipsis (07/26/20 12:59 PM)

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Solipsis]
    #26847122 - 07/27/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Here goes the first clone :bow2:



God I hope it works.


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