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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Adas]
    #27697860 - 03/16/22 04:13 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

A lot of people who ate my nats said the visual aspect is different compared to cubes


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a] * 1
    #27697863 - 03/16/22 04:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
The long, sometimes curly stems that split open in places while growing and the smaller caps.




Oh good so that's normal eh? I was just harvesting and kept noticing them kinda mangled in the middles of the gnarly ones.  So weird this species.

My only issue is I can't get any decent size fruit to clone. So many tiny little mushrooms I've harvested like 3 blocks 1st flush and still haven't filled a quart jar dried. Ugh.


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Offlinespitzenkorper
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Forrester]
    #27698162 - 03/16/22 07:58 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Spaghettinauts!

My first nats!
That’s T1 ms, dropped spores 3wks ago
These things are so wild!!!



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Edited by spitzenkorper (03/16/22 07:59 PM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: spitzenkorper] * 1
    #27698168 - 03/16/22 08:04 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

lol yeah they like to come apart sometimes. I had a few that looked like I had put a firecracker in the stem or something.


Adas that one 5g fruit you posted earlier is a very similar pheno to the potent ones I’ve had.

I’m not talking anything insane like pans potency but definitely on par with good PE, and definitely a different trip.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #27698372 - 03/17/22 12:24 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Well alright, maybe keep it around for a bit longer yet then! You think flipping it inside the tub or something? I have a big 80L pasty EZ dial and some wire racks. May be an idea to try one in there?


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OfflineAdas
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #27698424 - 03/17/22 03:18 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
lol yeah they like to come apart sometimes. I had a few that looked like I had put a firecracker in the stem or something.


Adas that one 5g fruit you posted earlier is a very similar pheno to the potent ones I’ve had.

I’m not talking anything insane like pans potency but definitely on par with good PE, and definitely a different trip.




Getting me all excited! :crazy2::mushroom2:


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27698523 - 03/17/22 06:34 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Myc Hunt said:
Well alright, maybe keep it around for a bit longer yet then! You think flipping it inside the tub or something? I have a big 80L pasty EZ dial and some wire racks. May be an idea to try one in there?




go for it, just keep an eye out for actual mold. Maybe harvest before the mushrooms sporulate just in case they are infected with something horrible.


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Edited by sandman420 (03/17/22 06:36 AM)


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InvisibleSwabMarleyS
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: sandman420]
    #27698544 - 03/17/22 07:35 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sandman420 said:
Quote:

Myc Hunt said:
Well alright, maybe keep it around for a bit longer yet then! You think flipping it inside the tub or something? I have a big 80L pasty EZ dial and some wire racks. May be an idea to try one in there?




go for it, just keep an eye out for actual mold. Maybe harvest before the mushrooms sporulate just in case they are infected with something horrible.



Yeah I’ll keep an eye on them and see what happens. Been really looking forward to the trip so I’m gunna be gutted if my efforts yield fuck all!! I’m gunna make up some Josex BRF pucks at the weekend so I might inoculate one or 2 of those with some Nat LC or go back to agar. Shit happens I guess!


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27698560 - 03/17/22 07:54 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I should prob mention that two of the tubs where I flipped the sub ended up growing mold on the bottom (top originally). However there was so much overlay that it sealed the whole tub and you couldn’t even tell unless you looked at the tub from underneath.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #27698561 - 03/17/22 07:55 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
I should prob mention that two of the tubs where I flipped the sub ended up growing mold on the bottom (top originally). However there was so much overlay that it sealed the whole tub and you couldn’t even tell unless you looked at the tub from underneath.



Good old Dr Nat!


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: SwabMarley] * 1
    #27698574 - 03/17/22 08:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Does anyone know what appearance mush or mycelium Alan Rockefeller sequenced as Natalensis?

Does that make sense?


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: DERRAYLD] * 1
    #27698831 - 03/17/22 12:31 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Derrayld (De-railed, right?): Yes it makes perfect sense, basically asking which pheno he did the tests on. Are you thinking that the two variants might just be distinct from one another?

Forrester: My first MS flushes ended up being very small fruits, but they got bigger and bigger with each subsequent flush. The final round just produced a single, twisty blue fruit.



I'm wondering if these would readily cross w/subcubensis or playa uvitas (whatever those end up being) since they're also "one-offs" of cubes. I know people have successfully hybrid panaeolus species, if the parents are close enough to one another genetically then it should be possible. Might just be another noobs-wish tho.

-How would you determine if it worked?
-Does this occur naturally (with fungi)?
-What would the offspring be called? (I don't know any protocol in place for naming a hybrid of two known species.)
-How many new species may have been found, and subsequently misidentified as cubensis (or others)? I find it bothersome that this could be much more prolific of an issue.
-What if every region has its own mutation going, but they're so similar macroscopically that nobody ever thinks anything of it?
-How quickly can genetics mutate to form what we would classify as a separate species?
-Are natals possibly just a distant mutation of cubensis that have been stabilized by their environment?

Another thing I've noticed, my natal cultures will not start overlaying until I begin misting/fanning... it's a reaction to fruiting conditions being introduced. I know the myc will crawl up the sides of any container when colonizing, but I mean the thick white blobs that completely overtake its own surface in just a few days. Can anyone verify/negate this claim with your grows?

I feel as though the overlay this species exhibits is something very important that really must be understood. Perhaps it was just a product of random mutation that nature selected as superior (at least in that particular region)... the colonies that overlaid were better-able to defend against contaminants, so they became the dominant variety. Now that we've found and domesticated it, we're starting to see the non-overlaying genetics are able to compete again.

Another possibility: Anyone who's handled those blobs knows they're almost completely water, with the strands of rhizomorphs just providing some structure (not unlike a sponge or orbee). From what I understand, South Africa tends to be quite dry most of the year... I know I'm not the first person to suggest that the overlay may be acting as a kindof "self-casing".

Anybody else noticed that the stipe-tissue tends to be VERY soft with this species? It's what causes them to become so incredibly bruised. After side-by-side comparison, the cubensis stipes appear to be much more robust and inflexible, thus not as prone to bruising as the natals (which will be deep blue, sometimes without even handling them)... not sure if the same is true w/the non-overlay culture. (We REALLY need to name these variants, I've been calling the spaghetti-ones "Green Mamba" - a snake native to their region.)

Somebody needs to do a legitimate experiment that compares the contaminant/infection fighting ability of this mycelium against different types of molds and bacteria. I wonder how it handles molds it's never seen before... would be good to know what contams are more prolific in South Africa too. I'd do it, but I've come to realize that science has to be done by skilled scientists or the information gained is basically useless... there's no way I'd be able to eliminate all the variables in my little home closet, and I wouldn't know how to organize/publish the findings anyhow.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Artemisia_Ale] * 1
    #27698837 - 03/17/22 12:38 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Yeah in my experience the overlay only happens after full colonization/fruiting.


And the really bad overlay always starts out as rhizo.  It looks a lot like rhizo cube myc and then it switches modes and the rhizo fingers start swelling and swelling until the surface is jusf all puffy myc.


The blobs are definitely weird, I like how you can peel them and see the rhizo strands. Like if you sliced one paper thin you could lay it on a plate and it would look normal :lol:


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Artemisia_Ale] * 1
    #27698881 - 03/17/22 01:18 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I've gotten multiple phenos off the same print (cortinate veil with no annulus, almost true veil with weak annulus, whiter caps, browner caps, thin and tall, short and Squat, lots of overlay, almost no overlay, bruising blue, bruising aqua), sometimes in the same tub. And nats look very different when grown outdoors from the photos people have posted, squat with very wide caps. In my limited experience fruiting three tubs (three more on the way), the variation is high.


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Offlineschpat
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Artemisia_Ale] * 2
    #27699703 - 03/18/22 02:15 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Artemisia_Ale said:
Another possibility: Anyone who's handled those blobs knows they're almost completely water, with the strands of rhizomorphs just providing some structure (not unlike a sponge or orbee). From what I understand, South Africa tends to be quite dry most of the year... I know I'm not the first person to suggest that the overlay may be acting as a kindof "self-casing".





South Africa is a geographically large and diverse country. The KwaZulu Natal Midlands are not dry at all, they are lush.

I'm more familiar with the climate closer to the coast there where it gets Farking hot all the time and the humuidity feels like abou 140% except when it rains heavily for 30 min every afternoon.  But Derralyed will be able to tell you more about the midlands climate.

Annecdote: When I did work in KwaZulu Natal I was working abut 200km north of the major city.  I'd have to drive out every Monday morning and back every friday to catch a plane.  On friday afternoons local cattle herders would stand on the side of the highway holding out a giant mushroom ~30cm tall.  Back then you could stop and buy a grocery bag of mushrooms from them for R20 (~$2).  These were delicious edible mushrooms, but now that I know more I'm fairly sure you could have accuired other types from them too.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: schpat] * 1
    #27700373 - 03/18/22 03:50 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

This is the behaviour Shroomery's brains need to put themselves at work with:



Cubes dont do this at all (?), and nats do it reliably given x conditions or "sometimes", just we dont know how/why.

Shoot the messenger all you want, but natals do alot of fruiting in the presence of contams, and this overlay seems to be a part of its survival mechanism. Either against bacs or molds or all.

Its at the very least interesting.



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Edited by smalltalk_canceled (03/18/22 04:44 PM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #27700404 - 03/18/22 04:04 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Those pins look exactly like how all of mine start out. Orange and a lot have a ring of white dots on the rim of the cap.

Just another thing that makes me think there’s different sub species or something going on. I’ve never had any that look like cubes and I see a lot of tubs with the overlay myc but brown pins and cube looking fruits.


Or maybe it’s just wild range of diversity who knows.


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: A.k.a]
    #27700847 - 03/18/22 11:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Schpat: I didn't know it was so wet there, I guess everytime I saw a pic of them in the wild it looked like a pretty dry region.

Moopers: Thank you for this info, that means the genetics are still very "loose" and able to put out alot of variation.

Does anyone know if there's been any reports of seeing the overlay in nature? Or y'all doing the outdoor grows notice it in your soil at all?

Are all the cultures everybody is growing derived from the same wild sample?


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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27700925 - 03/19/22 12:44 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Are you guys running spawn ratios than cubes? I went 1:3 my first go but experienced a lot of overlay.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Psilocybe natalensis [Re: noddyg] * 2
    #27701027 - 03/19/22 04:53 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I think the potency varies as wildly as everything else on these too.

Took 6g fresh this morning it was supposed to be just a microdose, waaaaay too much for a microdose, feels like 2g dried cubes and it should've been equivalent to a .6

The ones I ate weren't even the gnarly ones just a few smaller nondescript fruits


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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