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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Reoccurring headspace from months ago.
#26412512 - 01/02/20 01:16 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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It's been quite a sometime since I've chilled out on taking mushrooms. My last mushroom trip was in early October, and it was an extremely difficult (check out this thread if interested)
Anyway, what I really didn't explain was just the headspace of how I felt so lost and confused. When I was trying to get my things back together and in my bag (hammock and snacks or whatever else), I felt as if everything was misplaced. Overall, that trip was just a hard one.
Anyway, I was at the gym and a few weeks ago, and I was getting ready to do some work on the cable machines. So, I grab the matching handles and hook them up and then walk to get my water bottle. I get back to the machine and I noticed that I couldn't find the matching handle that I could have sworn I just hooked up.
I was looking all over for it, and couldn't find it. Then, I got like a flashback from my trip in October, feeling lost (in the sense of questioning my sanity)... it lasted for about 10 mins or so. My anxiety made it worse. I think a lot of it came from having such a vigorous workout and possibly low blood sugar, but the same headspace that I had during that trip surfaced in those moments.
Do any of you guys deal with issues from a problematic experience from one time in your trips? It only has happened once. I just found it extremely scary of how I felt exactly in that same headspace of when I was full on tripping (disillusioned), I guess.
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The Mycologist
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What I have realized is that tripping seems wild but in reality it just lets you see the true wild reality of consciousness.
I have had some weed trips and trip like states coming out of sleep. These have started to show me that the world we are exploring is not of the mushroom, but of the mind itself.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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The Mycologist
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist]
#26412565 - 01/02/20 01:46 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Just read your trip report.
Thought loops are definitely common in the psychedelic experience.
I have even experienced what seems like the step above thought loops which I can only really describe as alphabet soup thoughts.
Hard stuff to deal with. I have found singing a happy song in my head can help more than it seems like it would. Also a user on this site is always saying lemon balm tea is the secret haha.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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HolyBolete
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist]
#26412571 - 01/02/20 01:49 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Sometimes permanent changes can occur to your chemistry during an intense trip to make it easier to go to some of these bad places again. Flashbacks can also have a hallucinogenic effect to bring back the trip (in a sense) months later.
What might help is to try and invoke some of this anxiety in a safe setting and try to change the way you feel about the current state. It's not a proven objective way to fix the problem you're describing but it may help desensitize you to some of the things that are coming up.
If you feel as though you are starting to go crazy or losing your ability to see things normally it might help to see a psychiatrist and get on a low dose anti-psychotic for a short period of time.
Have you noticed a significant change in cognitive function? Any ptsd from this experience?
Just my opinion based off of tripping for 9 months on and off from only taking a large single dose of mushrooms. It took years to deal with the state of feeling traumatized.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: HolyBolete]
#26412582 - 01/02/20 01:54 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I dont really think the brain chemistry works like that.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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footpath
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Quote:
Vibe_Enthusiast said: Do any of you guys deal with issues from a problematic experience from one time in your trips? It only has happened once. I just found it extremely scary of how I felt exactly in that same headspace of when I was full on tripping (disillusioned), I guess.
It keeps me on my toes, I guess I'd say. I used to be extremely prone to loops/redundant anxious thoughts/alphabet soup (as Mycologist so aptly put it, I think - for me, it's where I'm overwhelmingly consumed by incomplete thoughts that are essentially just baby babble... and it gets pretty terrifying, as if you've lost your mind.) But I now have a sensitivity to the type of thoughts or activities that might induce that and I know to focus myself onto something that can keep me grounded in a sense. I suppose I see it as part of the leathering of my psychedelic skin. It is, however, a big factor in my pre-trip jitters/anxiety to this day even though I haven't found myself in such a loop in many years.
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trubblesome
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I've had good and bad "flashbacks" or recalls from trips - I read through your experience in your other thread and have definitely been there as well. this past summer I was in a cabin and had spent all day doing work, and rewarded myself with some shrooms that evening. I set up a recliner looking out over the water but I couldn't get myself situated right. I kept going back and forth from room to room getting different things I thought I needed to "complete" my situation and get comfortable, and each time I would have something or other catch me off guard along the way and end up following that thread until I remembered what I was doing. It was really disorienting and made my head hurt and my brain feel sticky and exhausted. it was that same experience of misplaced things, and somehow, misplaced thoughts even, if that makes sense, that made me feel like I'd be completing the same dumb fetch quests over and over again for the rest of my life. It was several months ago, but I've been super stressed the past few weeks and have had that feeling on a semi-regular basis in my day to day, things I was JUST USING seemingly vanishing or walking away, etc.
I've definitely had more experience with this from acid than mushrooms, but different headspaces for sure. more intense/paranoid thought loops that creep in later, that can be triggered by a visual or a sound, or from smoking some high strength weed. it's kept me from doing full on doses of acid for years.
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footpath
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: trubblesome]
#26412644 - 01/02/20 02:19 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Oh yeah, cannabis. I still love it when we get along. But we rarely ever do anymore. Meaning that nearly all of my terrible anxious loops in recent years have been induced by cannabis. Almost to the point that I can guarantee it will happen if I indulge. CBD on the other hand... mmm.
I'm sure you've heard me mention already, I am prone to mania (bipolar) even when living sober and healthy for long stretches of time, so my experience may or may not be very relative to yours.
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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: footpath]
#26413000 - 01/02/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Thanks for the replies guys. I'm glad I'm not alone on this weird headspace that I think we've all been to in one point of our trips, with it coming back to scare you a little bit in stressful situations. I do think it was because I was taxing my body heavily, under big stress loads.. that it triggered something in my head. Because when I did have that feeling in the woods it was more "Stress" than anything.
Like @Trubblesome said - feeling like we're missing something that doesn't make us feel completed. In this case, it was not being able to find that handle and it brought me right back to when I couldn't find the right shit to put in my pack when tripping in the woods. Just getting lost and wondering where everything went as I got lost in thought loops - trying to hold on.
That was the first time I've ever had thought loops to that degree was in that trip report. So much to the point of me pretty much being incoherent to the real world and getting lost in this "lala" land with no recollection of what I was even thinking. It was horrifying.
Crazy that this one little trigger was able to bring the flashback of that experience back into play. Actually, left the gym right after that and ate a banana and picked up some fruit juice. That seemed to help (I'm thinking it was low blood sugar" - but that headspace was identical to what I experienced in one of the most difficult trips.
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CountHTML
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Yes, totally understand what you’re talking about. I don’t know exactly what the underlying mechanism is but it seems some people, some of the time get blown open somehow by psychedelics and the relationship with the substances changes. It’s like some fundamental part of identity gets blown out by dynamite and a vacuum remains, leading to vulnerability to the development of a gamut of mental health issues.
The mind is complex and dynamic. A lot of ideas pertaining to this stuff are psychologically useful but perhaps metaphysically unnecessary, an example being the Tibetan bardo / afterlife cosmology. A lot of framework for these phenomena is established by and accounted for and covered by humanity’s mystical traditions because, while they’re probably phenomenologically distinct on some metrics, the psychedelic experience and mystical experience cover a lot of the same territory.
The language of our unconscious is symbol, archetype. These mystical traditions provide maps, not territories, but are useful in their domain of application (the dynamic, complex, beautifully chaotic human mind).
I suspect, on some level, that this is an opportunity to discover states of consciousness described by these traditions and, over time, to become grounded in them. That is to say, psychedelics can be a form of yoga, in a way. The key is get out of the vacuum stage and to fill oneself with more core Essential Self to fill in for what was before persona / ego material. It’s challenging though because if you find yourself in this position you’re essentially working backwards, picking up the pieces and trying to figure out what happened.
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HolyBolete
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: CountHTML]
#26413061 - 01/02/20 06:38 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
CountHTML said: Yes, totally understand what you’re talking about. I don’t know exactly what the underlying mechanism is but it seems some people, some of the time get blown open somehow by psychedelics and the relationship with the substances changes. It’s like some fundamental part of identity gets blown out by dynamite and a vacuum remains, leading to vulnerability to the development of a gamut of mental health issues.
The mind is complex and dynamic. A lot of ideas pertaining to this stuff are psychologically useful but perhaps metaphysically unnecessary, an example being the Tibetan bardo / afterlife cosmology. A lot of framework for these phenomena is established by and accounted for and covered by humanity’s mystical traditions because, while they’re probably phenomenologically distinct on some metrics, the psychedelic experience and mystical experience cover a lot of the same territory.
The language of our unconscious is symbol, archetype. These mystical traditions provide maps, not territories, but are useful in their domain of application (the dynamic, complex, beautifully chaotic human mind).
I suspect, on some level, that this is an opportunity to discover states of consciousness described by these traditions and, over time, to become grounded in them. That is to say, psychedelics can be a form of yoga, in a way. The key is get out of the vacuum stage and to fill oneself with more core Essential Self to fill in for what was before persona / ego material. It’s challenging though because if you find yourself in this position you’re essentially working backwards, picking up the pieces and trying to figure out what happened.
Well said!
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Eclipse3130
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: HolyBolete] 1
#26413308 - 01/02/20 09:20 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Yes it is just trauma/PTSD reaction at a mild level, you triggered the same thought patterns that you experienced on the trip, you recognize them now for what they are because you have experienced them from an altered perspective.
That's what psychedelics do, the experience itself can be very traumatizing, in a negative or positive sense, as it should be, that's the respect they deserve. When you find yourself repeating/triggering negative traumatic loops, well that's a good thing - because you have found your self experiencing them, you are already above it.
From here if it is a reoccurring problem you can slowly change your emotional response/reaction to these situations by catching them as they occur and reminding yourself
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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The Mycologist
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I have some theories about how blood sugar and pressure can bring on these feelings of dread as well So you may be on to something.
Whenever you are stressed, just take a good deep breath and take your time. Seems silly but oxygen levels and breathing can really mess with things too.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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The Mycologist
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist]
#26414168 - 01/03/20 11:21 AM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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footpath
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist] 1
#26414259 - 01/03/20 12:13 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Interesting. On one hand, I only ever fasted for trips when I was young and I only ever had bad trips when I was young. These days I keep it light, but tend to make sure I'm well-nourished - fruits, veg, nuts, smoothies, broths. No more bad trips.
On the other hand, with cannabis, it doesn't matter how nourished I am, it'll send me spiraling seemingly without rhyme or reason other than my own adverse reaction to it. Even if I succumb to annihilating every last thing in my fridge and pantry, I'll still be in the pits.
And on my third hand ( ), I'm keenly aware that a proper diet has calmed my bipolar swings. My diet was pretty shite when I was young and my manic swings were very manic.
I know this is fairly disjointed and entirely anecdotal, I'm just drawing parallels as I go.
But it is intriguing, As far as I know, most psychedelics and bipolar/mental disorders are interactive with the 5-HT receptors which, if I'm not mistaken, are found in your enteric nervous system (gut). So it might stand to reason that taking care of the system that harbors the mechanisms that process these substances would, in turn, make that processing easier. And that, maybe, there's something of a toxic byproduct when you can't easily process such substances.
I've never really considered it to be a blood sugar or hypoglycemic issue, but it does arouse curiosity. My better half is a functional nutritionist as well, so it'll be an interesting conversation to bring to her. Not to mention the library of human nutrition books that I have at home. I'm interested to see if any of them contain anything particularly relevant.
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HolyBolete
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist]
#26414268 - 01/03/20 12:18 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: I dont really think the brain chemistry works like that.
That's what HPPD is by definition.. the mushrooms invoke a potentially permanent trip.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: HolyBolete]
#26414332 - 01/03/20 12:59 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
HolyBolete said:
Quote:
The Mycologist said: I dont really think the brain chemistry works like that.
That's what HPPD is by definition.. the mushrooms invoke a potentially permanent trip.
Nah man their are neural pathways and shit. Its not just a chemical soup.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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The Mycologist
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: footpath]
#26414336 - 01/03/20 01:01 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Really what I am starting to realize is that having mindfulness on what can effect your mind is the first step to mastering the mind
Sounds like you have gotten into that world a bit already Footpath.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Reoccurring headspace from months ago. [Re: The Mycologist] 1
#26414356 - 01/03/20 01:10 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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I'm not sure if it were low blood sugar or if it were just a trigger from my past experience that surfaced itself. IMHO - I do think blood sugar had to do with my gym experience. As for when I was having that episode in the woods during my experience - I couldn't tell you.
I do a lot of hiking on mushrooms, and bring snacks accordingly. I'm a pretty mindful eater, even a few hours prior to a trip I like to eat some oatmeal with peanut butter to help keep blood sugar levels in a somewhat normal range because I know I won't be eating much if I'm tripping indoors. Those are usually my more deeper trips.
I've never done the "fast 8/16" thing. I don't believe in having to fast that long. I think it's actually more beneficial to have something in your stomach that helps regulate blood sugar and nourish you while your brain is in that state. To help avoid excess confusion and disillusion (the bad ones). Because I've been confused before and have laughed hysterically about it. But I've also though my world was coming to an end.
Definitely two sides to that coin. It's very plausible that low blood sugar definitely does show symptoms like a "bad" mushroom trip. I just think a lot of it is intensified while tripping. Who knows, I could be speaking out of my ass. But I for sure see a correlation between the two. I'm surprised this is not talked about more to be honest. At least from when I've been on this forum.
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