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cryptowizard
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Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It?
#26411800 - 01/02/20 02:37 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I've had one of Stament's flow hoods sitting around for a while bought as a package deal. The filter was bad, and I'm buying a new one. I have these 2 options:
I read the difference is about 1 in 20 plates will get contaminated. I also see commercial growers using these 2'x4' filters that don't have the right depth and therefor proper flow and they get along fine.
This filter will probably last 10+ years so is it worth the extra $120? Also is the 36x24 vs. 24x36 relate to the orientation of the pleats? I know they're supposed to be vertical to prevent sagging over time.
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cli_hlt
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26411819 - 01/02/20 03:01 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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If my livelyhood would depend on it, or if I'd need it for the hobby I love, I'd choose the better. The difference would be negligible in terms of cost ($120 over 10 years is nothing).
I'd use the better one because I hate constantly second guessing my equipment. With the better one the contams are almost entirely because of mistakes. This way I'd have no room for playing mind tricks on myself like "oh, it must have been a stray germ". No. I screwed up.
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Diego


Registered: 12/30/19
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26411897 - 01/02/20 05:34 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Its worth it but not at that price. You can find cheaper ones. If you do get one from them i suggest the mini pleats
-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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cryptowizard
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Diego]
#26412383 - 01/02/20 11:35 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Cepa Test came back with:
Quote:
24x36x5.875. 99.99% in an aluminum frame with a downstream gasket our part# CE24366-01 $333 each plus packaging and freight
That's gotta be over $400 with freight. Staments has it for $350, but the basic quote for shipping is $80. So it looks like Ebay is my best bet with the 30+ day waiting period.
I'm leaning towards the .99, but $400 - fuck. It's for hobby use, and my current 12x24 is a PITA to work with and ~10 years old. Plus all my plates are getting bacterial contams, so I think it has pinhole leaks unless it's coming from the spore solution.
There are cheaper filters out there, but I already have the cabinet and blower. It also has a properly sized air space behind the filter matched to the blower to get proper laminar flow.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard] 1
#26412468 - 01/02/20 12:42 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I think the bacteria problem isn't coming from the hood. It's probably from you or you're spores.
I'd definitely advise getting the nicer filter. The amount of money isn't even worth worrying about when you put it into the perspective of the life of the filter.
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spiritlands



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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26412573 - 01/02/20 01:49 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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My shmuvbox was $40 and the filters for it are .2 microns and they're $20. I know you guys have nice flow hoods and those filters are prob nice but those prices are why I like my trashbag box. Someday when I have room for a permanent fh I'd like to build a setup like that. Why is the 12x24 a pita, not wide enough? That's the size of my shmuv but with mine it blows from left to right and I have the width of the trash bag to work in.
  This Place has a lot of filters for flow hoods. I don't know much about the filters but they have a huge selection. Idk if that helps any.
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A.k.a
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: spiritlands] 2
#26412583 - 01/02/20 01:55 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I don’t know shit about filters but another 120 bucks for .02% my first thought was hell no...then I saw they last a decade.
That’s a tough call, 5% contamination rate isn’t much but if you think of it as 12 bucks a year for zero plates lost I think everybody would go for it.
I’d say it depends how much you’ll use it but if you’re buying a hood in the first place you’re deep enough into cult to make it worth the extra money.
Reminds me of those starving kid commercials.
“For just one dollar a month you could save one plate from every sleeve from ending up in the garbage before it’s time.”
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (01/02/20 01:57 PM)
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Diego


Registered: 12/30/19
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: A.k.a]
#26412596 - 01/02/20 01:59 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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You can find camfil h14s for $100. 22 in by 43 in
-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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Diego


Registered: 12/30/19
Posts: 346
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Diego]
#26412604 - 01/02/20 02:01 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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They're 99.995% and are only 2 inches thick
-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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Growtech
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Diego]
#26412813 - 01/02/20 03:45 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I'd go with a 99.99% filter. I also would be wary of one that is 2 inches thick. Not necessarily because it couldn't filter properly, but you are going to have a hard time achieving laminar flow the thinner the filter is. A filter that isn't conducive to laminar flow isn't going to be great if it's causing turbulence that is sucking non-sterile air into your work area.
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Diego


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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Growtech]
#26412835 - 01/02/20 03:59 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Growtech said: I'd go with a 99.99% filter. I also would be wary of one that is 2 inches thick. Not necessarily because it couldn't filter properly, but you are going to have a hard time achieving laminar flow the thinner the filter is. A filter that isn't conducive to laminar flow isn't going to be great if it's causing turbulence that is sucking non-sterile air into your work area.
They're built specifically for it. Use the correct fan size
-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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Diego


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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Diego]
#26412848 - 01/02/20 04:08 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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-------------------- Some do it for the income But we do it for the outcome Some of us are active While others just let their mouths run - Chali 2na & Jurassic 5
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cryptowizard
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26412956 - 01/02/20 05:37 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I think the bacteria problem isn't coming from the hood. It's probably from you or you're spores.
I'd definitely advise getting the nicer filter. The amount of money isn't even worth worrying about when you put it into the perspective of the life of the filter.
I suspect you're correct. I'm getting exactly the same result from 3 separate strains/syringes. They all come out like this:

It's not a well known supplier out of Vegas. I suppose they could have a process problem or a filthy fruiting room. I don't think it's my technique, that's pretty solid from everything I've watched/read. I'm sterilizing between each transfer in a electric tool sterilizer - needle and loop, hands behind the work, opening into the airflow, and so on. I've done pour/no-pour 30min in the 25x. Nothing's worked.
I've made over 30 plates and they all pretty much turn out the same. Stall out after 4 days and the shiny/slimy appearance covers the myc. Rest of the plate stays clean. My next move is to get some Antibiotic MEA and perhaps a new syringe from a different supplier. Start over for the 3rd time. . . .
Loved reading some of your posts BTW. I think I'll order the .99 tomorrow.
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Mr. Alien
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26412975 - 01/02/20 05:45 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I will buy my next filter in www.cepatest.com as well.
Yeah go for the 99.99%, of course!
Also, they are custom made. John Hollidays recommended me that site as well. I'll say go for it!
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Growtech
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26413260 - 01/02/20 08:52 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
cryptowizard said:
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I think the bacteria problem isn't coming from the hood. It's probably from you or you're spores.
I'd definitely advise getting the nicer filter. The amount of money isn't even worth worrying about when you put it into the perspective of the life of the filter.
I suspect you're correct. I'm getting exactly the same result from 3 separate strains/syringes. They all come out like this:

It's not a well known supplier out of Vegas. I suppose they could have a process problem or a filthy fruiting room. I don't think it's my technique, that's pretty solid from everything I've watched/read. I'm sterilizing between each transfer in a electric tool sterilizer - needle and loop, hands behind the work, opening into the airflow, and so on. I've done pour/no-pour 30min in the 25x. Nothing's worked.
I've made over 30 plates and they all pretty much turn out the same. Stall out after 4 days and the shiny/slimy appearance covers the myc. Rest of the plate stays clean. My next move is to get some Antibiotic MEA and perhaps a new syringe from a different supplier. Start over for the 3rd time. . . .
Loved reading some of your posts BTW. I think I'll order the .99 tomorrow.
That's pretty normal for spore syringes. Spore syringes are inherently not sterile. Let them sit a little bit, germinate some mycelium, and transfer some away from the bacteria.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Growtech]
#26413307 - 01/02/20 09:20 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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That is 100% coming from the syringe. Dirty as fuck. you may be able to save it but it's quite hard when they are that fucked.
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cryptowizard
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26413375 - 01/02/20 09:57 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Good to know. Thank you. I ordered some Antibiotic MEA, but it sounds like I need to get spores from another source.
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Growtech
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26413433 - 01/02/20 10:59 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
cryptowizard said: Good to know. Thank you. I ordered some Antibiotic MEA, but it sounds like I need to get spores from another source.
Even the best vendors are going to have contamination in syringes more often than not. One of the main reasons to do agar is to do transfers and get contamination free mycelium ready for colonization.
Just assume every spore syringe and spore print is contaminated.
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Mushr00mSurprise
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Growtech]
#26413460 - 01/02/20 11:31 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Growtech said:
Quote:
cryptowizard said: Good to know. Thank you. I ordered some Antibiotic MEA, but it sounds like I need to get spores from another source.
Even the best vendors are going to have contamination in syringes more often than not. One of the main reasons to do agar is to do transfers and get contamination free mycelium ready for colonization.
Just assume every spore syringe and spore print is contaminated.
I get my spores from a reliable source and they still have contaminates every once and a while.
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Kizzle
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Mushr00mSurprise]
#26413485 - 01/02/20 11:56 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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The antibiotic agar could make all the difference or it could do nothing. Hell it may not even be bacteria, yeasts look pretty similar. It can also help sometimes to use an agar with less added sugars. The mycelium growth is weaker and harder to see but it seems to give it more of an advantage over the bacteria.
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Randalf the Grey
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Kizzle]
#26413509 - 01/03/20 12:32 AM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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You are not wrong about MSS being inherently dirty. But that is insanely dirty. Like holy fuck dirty. If that was the norm, PFteks would never work. If you think it is worth it, maybe try to let vendor know there is an issue, without mentioning cultivation of course. I am a big proponent to agar and trying to "save" dirty cultures but this is one time I would just say screw it and get new\better syringes.
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Growtech
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26413536 - 01/03/20 01:18 AM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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If that’s the normal bacteria I see in syringes, the bacteria will show wherever the syringe solution was within a day... but it won’t expand. Then when the mycelium germinates. It will overrun it. It will work out in a syringe to agar inoculation because the bacteria doesn’t expand really and the mycelium just overruns it. What you are seeing there is a pretty normal spore syringe in my experience. Wait a bit and you’ll have mycelium overrunning it I bet. Transfer away from bacteria and you can get clean mycelium pretty easy.
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A.k.a
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: Growtech]
#26414364 - 01/03/20 01:15 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Yeah I was just gonna say I had three plates similar to that, so much bac that it would run and pool up at the edge when I tilted the dish.
I left them in 40-50 degrees for a few days and idk if it was temp or time but when I came back the bacteria was mostly dried up and the myc had taken off and looked great.
Pretty lucky cuz I meant to toss them but got distracted packing and forgot.
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LAGM2020     
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spiritlands



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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26414453 - 01/03/20 02:11 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: That is 100% coming from the syringe. Dirty as fuck. you may be able to save it but it's quite hard when they are that fucked.
If it is bacterial couldn't some alcohol be introduced to kill the bacteria but not harm the spores like peroxide would? I'm under the impression alcohol destroys the cell wall of bacteria but isn't antifungal.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: spiritlands]
#26414502 - 01/03/20 02:37 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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i really really doubt that would work.
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Growtech
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26414580 - 01/03/20 03:27 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Antibiotics, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, etc? The problem of a dirty syringe is being overthought. Wait a couple days, transfer some mycelium to a clean plate. If that transfer isn't clean in itself, do it once more.
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naturalistic123



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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: verum subsequentis]
#26414583 - 01/03/20 03:29 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Alchohol kills most bacteria, viruses and fungi on the spot.
-------------------- Ὡς οὖν εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἐγώ εἰμι, ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ ἔπεσον χαμαί.
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spiritlands



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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: naturalistic123] 1
#26414640 - 01/03/20 03:57 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Nevermind you're right. It was just an idea. I can clean most things on agar but there have been projects thrown out that would have been nice to save. This is from the center for disease control studies on chemical disinfectants.. There's lots of good info in this link.
Alcohol Overview. In the healthcare setting, “alcohol” refers to two water-soluble chemical compounds—ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol—that have generally underrated germicidal characteristics 482. FDA has not cleared any liquid chemical sterilant or high-level disinfectant with alcohol as the main active ingredient. These alcohols are rapidly bactericidal rather than bacteriostatic against vegetative forms of bacteria; they also are tuberculocidal, fungicidal, and virucidal but do not destroy bacterial spores. Their cidal activity drops sharply when diluted below 50% concentration, and the optimum bactericidal concentration is 60%–90% solutions in water (volume/volume).
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cryptowizard
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: spiritlands]
#26414663 - 01/03/20 04:19 PM (4 years, 26 days ago) |
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Those were +2 weeks old and showing no signs of growth after the first 5-7 days, so I pitched them. I did a couple of transfers that grew out about 2-3x what the pic shows. I kept them, and just did 2 transfers of each (gen 3). They didn't look much better, but grew more than the others. I'll give the refrigerator trick a try in a couple of days with one of each to see if that works. Thank you for the suggestions.
I also setup some no-pour big lots PP rounds with filter discs melted to the side. I let them cool for a couple of days and did spore->agar x3 of each 3 strains again.
I only let the agar cool for a few hours in front of the flow hood (running) after pouring the first few times. Perhaps that has something to do with the contams being so bad. The plates smell like fermentation so perhaps it's yeast as someone suggested. I'll also repeat when the antibiotic MEA arrives.
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cryptowizard
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26438290 - 01/17/20 10:31 AM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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Just a quick follow up - Got new syringes, did 4x of 5 strains and had zero contamination. I got some antibiotic MEA, but I'm not even going to bother with it. I'll save it for some wild collected spore prints. Thanks everyone.
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Failboat
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Re: Price Difference from a 99.97% to 99.99% HEPA Filter Worth It? [Re: cryptowizard]
#26438635 - 01/17/20 01:52 PM (4 years, 12 days ago) |
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I got my 2'x4'×6" 99.997% @.3microns for like $210. The thickness isn't a problem, they're made to filter and they work.
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