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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Anonymous #1

Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons.
    #26411250 - 01/01/20 05:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You can't call abortion of embryos assassination since assassination involves the killing of persons. Pro-life are fundamentally wrong when they call an embryo a person or a human being.

It is simply wrong to describe a fertilised ovum as a human being. A fertilised ovum is not a human being,it is a biological reaction. It has no head, no heart, no spine, no consciousness. It is a collection of biological elements which is no more a human being than my leg, my arm, any of my organs, even my toe nails.

It may someday become a human being, but it is not a human being.

A sperm is not a human being, an ovum is not a human being. Together they do not make up a human being. They become an embryo with a very risky future.

Libertarians and pro-life call the fundamental "right to life" card with the topic of abortion. And the "respect for one's life project" card as well.. WHAT THEY DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND IS that these fundamental rights refer to persons... NOT EMBRYOS.

Also, 90% of pro-life defendants are religious people. They use these very sentimental images and videos to reinforce their point that ending the life of an embryo is assassination. A very similar tactic that religious people use to gain supporters into their cult.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26411255 - 01/01/20 05:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Idk, I can see how a fetus is alive and, technically, human. That said, if one is growing INSIDE YOUR BODY, you should be able to kill it if you want...


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Anonymous #3

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26411261 - 01/01/20 05:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Agree 100%


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Anonymous #1

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #26411272 - 01/01/20 05:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Idk, I can see how a fetus is alive and, technically, human. That said, if one is growing INSIDE YOUR BODY, you should be able to kill it if you want...




A fetus is very different than an embryo. the first 8 weeks after conception are considered embryos, week 9 it becomes a fetus. But talking about fetuses, if i could choose a middle point between conception and giving birth, to be considered a human or person or at least closer to the definition of person or human being, neurology says is week 24... I'm intended to believe the experts...

Quote:

Just as death is usually defined by the cessation of brain activity, so the start of life can be defined as the start of a recognisable ElectroencephalographyWikipedia's W.svg (EEG) pattern from the foetus. This is usually twenty four to twenty seven weeks after conception.[2]

The point of using neurological factors rather than other signs such as a heartbeat is that this is a much more useful indicator from the point of view of science. A heart beats using mostly involuntary muscle movements so is really little different from any other spontaneous motion or metabolic processes. A heartbeat means relatively little in real terms, although it is more dramatic from an emotive point of view.





So for me, the "animal life" starts at conception but the "human life" really starts in week 24. Is the most objective form of view, and based on neurology.


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Anonymous #4

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26411513 - 01/01/20 08:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

So is abortion at 24 weeks killing a human?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #4] * 1
    #26411588 - 01/01/20 09:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
So is abortion at 24 weeks killing a human?




What are you referring as "killing a human"? Killing the species generic name life form aka human (homo sapiens scientific name)? Killing what we call philosophically "human being" or a "person"?

Killing a fetus of 24 weeks old is killing the philosophical representation of what we call a human being or person, since at 24 weeks the brain "turns on" according to neurology consensus. You can kill the homo sapiens life form at any stage after the conception but there is a middle point in which it should be considered assassination, an embryon (8 weeks old max) clearly is not close to that.


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Anonymous #5

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #26411796 - 01/02/20 02:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

but at how many weeks does the soul appear? :retawed:


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Anonymous #6

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26412107 - 01/02/20 08:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

A sperm is half a human being, an embryo is a whole human being.


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Anonymous #7

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #26412273 - 01/02/20 10:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Call.it whatever you want I guess but if you think that its potential for life is more important than the existing life if the woman who is carrying it you're a straight up piece of trash.


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Anonymous #8

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #7]
    #26412295 - 01/02/20 10:47 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Abortion is a very slippery slope. For the most part I’m not against it, but as a society, who has the right to determines who lives and who dies. Is all life important or only the ones that can vote. Post birth abortions and forced euthanasia is right around the corner. Agree with me or not, it’s coming.


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Anonymous #7

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #26412328 - 01/02/20 11:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That's ridiculous. Post birth abortions wpuld mean killing a viable infant after it has been born. That is not abortion, since the neonate would be killed after it has been born, is outside of the womb, and can sustain life on it's own. I could see this happening more if we as a country (I am in the U.S.) continue to restrict access to abortion and continue moving towards a forced birth model, which absolutely is happening. No woman who wants an abortion is going to carry a pregnancy to term, deliver, and then have a "Post birth abortion" performed if she has access to safe and affordable abortion. We have only a couple of states that allow physician assisted suicide for adults with terminal illness who want to end their own lives with dignity, so to say that "Post birth abortions" are right around the corner simply because we still have access to safe and legal abortion (for now) is complete and utter horseshit.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #26412335 - 01/02/20 11:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #6 said:
A sperm is half a human being, an embryo is a whole human being.




So when I feed the geese I commit millions of half-murders?
Should I be sentenced to 12.5 years to half-life? Or a million half-life sentences?

Quote:

Anonymous #8 said:
Abortion is a very slippery slope. For the most part I’m not against it, but as a society, who has the right to determines who lives and who dies. Is all life important or only the ones that can vote. Post birth abortions and forced euthanasia is right around the corner. Agree with me or not, it’s coming.




Denying half the population their right to protect their wellbeing isn’t a slippery slope?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #26412431 - 01/02/20 12:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #6 said:
A sperm is half a human being, an embryo is a whole human being.




There's 2 definition of human beings.

1.- The generic name of the homo sapiens specie.

2.- The philosophical representation of what make us human beings or persons. (of course our brains is what differentiate us from a embryo)

Yes an embryo is a number 1 life form.

No, an embryo is definitely not number 2.

Can we please specify for the sake of the debate what you mean as human beings every time you mention it? Is fucking confusing having to decipher what you mean by human beings. For 1 say human beings for 2 say "human beings" or just persons.

An embryo is a whole human being in the sense that is a homo sapiens life form, that doesn't make the embryo a "human being" aka a person.

An no, every time i jerk off i'm not killing millions of half human beings in any sense.

Quote:

Anonymous #8 said:
Abortion is a very slippery slope. For the most part I’m not against it, but as a society, who has the right to determines who lives and who dies. Is all life important or only the ones that can vote. Post birth abortions and forced euthanasia is right around the corner. Agree with me or not, it’s coming.




You are saying a "who" to an embryo? IS NOT A "WHO" why you can't understand that embryos are not PERSONS. An embryo is no more than a property of the woman that carries it inside of her.. SHE is a PERSON, SHE is a "human being", she should have a more rights than an embryo.

EDIT: Post birth abortions? that infanticide. Then i would agree that the post birth individual is actually a baby/person/"human being".  He has the right to live, he already won the title of a person and its rights. That is Murder/assassination. Killing an embryo is not murder/assassination.


Edited by Anonymous (01/02/20 12:33 PM)


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Anonymous #2

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26412446 - 01/02/20 12:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don’t think it matters whether an embryo/fetus is human or alive. I mean, if I get a tapeworm removed, I won’t go to jail for animal abuse. Cause I get to kill animals that literally live inside my body, leaching off my nutrition and grinding down on my overall well-being.

In the context of abortion, I don’t see how a fetus is so different from a tapeworm.

You ask “who gets to decide who lives or dies...”. But the answer is obvious. If something is living in your body, YOU get to decide whether it lives or dies. Seems fair, no?


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Anonymous #5

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #26412462 - 01/02/20 12:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

TAPEWORM LIVES MATTER

Quote:

Anonymous #8 said:
Abortion is a very slippery slope. For the most part I’m not against it, but as a society, who has the right to determines who lives and who dies. Is all life important or only the ones that can vote. Post birth abortions and forced euthanasia is right around the corner. Agree with me or not, it’s coming.



I can smell the alex jones in this post


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Anonymous #4

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26412485 - 01/02/20 12:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
So is abortion at 24 weeks killing a human?




What are you referring as "killing a human"? Killing the species generic name life form aka human (homo sapiens scientific name)? Killing what we call philosophically "human being" or a "person"?

Killing a fetus of 24 weeks old is killing the philosophical representation of what we call a human being or person, since at 24 weeks the brain "turns on" according to neurology consensus. You can kill the homo sapiens life form at any stage after the conception but there is a middle point in which it should be considered assassination, an embryon (8 weeks old max) clearly is not close to that.




So is that your cut off for an abortion?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #26412499 - 01/02/20 12:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
So is abortion at 24 weeks killing a human?




What are you referring as "killing a human"? Killing the species generic name life form aka human (homo sapiens scientific name)? Killing what we call philosophically "human being" or a "person"?

Killing a fetus of 24 weeks old is killing the philosophical representation of what we call a human being or person, since at 24 weeks the brain "turns on" according to neurology consensus. You can kill the homo sapiens life form at any stage after the conception but there is a middle point in which it should be considered assassination, an embryon (8 weeks old max) clearly is not close to that.




So is that your cut off for an abortion?




Are you going to call me murder for thinking like that? Come on call me murderer, make use of strong words to get the audience to sympathise with you.


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Anonymous #4

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26412529 - 01/02/20 01:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
So is abortion at 24 weeks killing a human?




What are you referring as "killing a human"? Killing the species generic name life form aka human (homo sapiens scientific name)? Killing what we call philosophically "human being" or a "person"?

Killing a fetus of 24 weeks old is killing the philosophical representation of what we call a human being or person, since at 24 weeks the brain "turns on" according to neurology consensus. You can kill the homo sapiens life form at any stage after the conception but there is a middle point in which it should be considered assassination, an embryon (8 weeks old max) clearly is not close to that.




So is that your cut off for an abortion?




Are you going to call me murder for thinking like that? Come on call me murderer, make use of strong words to get the audience to sympathise with you.




No, I won't call you a murderer for thinking what you do.  I always thought what defines a human is the brain, is that how you feel as well?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #26412592 - 01/02/20 01:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

No, I won't call you a murderer for thinking what you do.  I always thought what defines a human is the brain, is that how you feel as well?




Yes! Ultimately our mind is what makes us "human beings" or persons. Not a heart beat. A heart beat is just an involuntary muscle movement. A heart beat for some reason is very dramatic from the emotive point of view.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Unpopular opinion. Embryos are not human beings or persons. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26412601 - 01/02/20 02:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

That’s a pretty simplistic view, considering the extent to which other body parts affect brain function.

Hell, take away all the hormone-producing glands and you’re already a few emotions short of a human.


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