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SevR
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Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin 2
#26411087 - 01/01/20 03:03 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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I'm in the beginning phases of working on a research project regarding the bodies physiology and the metabolic processes involved with the Psilocybin experience. I'm curious if anyone has any information regarding the nutritional 'cost' of a psilocybin trip.
On a basic level, I understand how the various neurotransmitters work, and the serotonin receptor/psilocybin connection; But what I'm most interested in is the metabolic demands that psilocybin makes on the body, especially in regards to various fats and vitamins.
Conceivably, given the neurogenesis taking place; I would expect to see a large quantity of cholesterol and essential fatty acids get used up- but I'd love to see studies quantifying this I imagine also, that injesting mushrooms in a state where the brain is using ketones as fuel as opposed to glucose would have a marked influence on the trip.
In what other ways does psilocybin deplete the body? How can we optimally add nutrients pre and post in order to facilitate more revealing, cleaner, more healing experiences?
Any information at all would be greatly appreciated.
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DJ Ed
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26411138 - 01/01/20 03:34 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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I don’t believe ketones can feed the brain. I have type 1 diabetes and I have been taught that the only energy that can fuel the brain is glucose. That is why type 1s experience hypoglycaemic attacks.
Take care, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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SevR
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: DJ Ed]
#26411165 - 01/01/20 03:55 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJ Ed said: I don’t believe ketones can feed the brain. I have type 1 diabetes and I have been taught that the only energy that can fuel the brain is glucose. That is why type 1s experience hypoglycaemic attacks.
Take care, DJ Ed
Actually, Ketones are the brain's most preferred source of fuel, and are more efficient than glucose by 25%.
Out of the three macronutrients, (Fats, Proteins and Carbs) Carbs are the only one that humans are not dependent on. You can live (and well) on a diet of zero carbs at all, whereas the body has metabolic requirements for both fat and protein.
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Korean Jesus



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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26411300 - 01/01/20 05:38 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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This is very interesting.
Please share your findings when you're done! I love knowing about these kinds of things.
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Northerner
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26411323 - 01/01/20 05:55 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
SevR said:
Quote:
DJ Ed said: I don’t believe ketones can feed the brain. I have type 1 diabetes and I have been taught that the only energy that can fuel the brain is glucose. That is why type 1s experience hypoglycaemic attacks.
Take care, DJ Ed
Actually, Ketones are the brain's most preferred source of fuel, and are more efficient than glucose by 25%.
Out of the three macronutrients, (Fats, Proteins and Carbs) Carbs are the only one that humans are not dependent on. You can live (and well) on a diet of zero carbs at all, whereas the body has metabolic requirements for both fat and protein.
The liver doesn't produce ketones though unless sugars and insulin are low, which could injure or kill diabetic people. It's a fallback system. The vast majority of humans are not in ketosis at a given time.
To extrapolate from that, the vast majority of people will use glucose to power their brains when tripping, little to no additional fatty acids would be used. There would need to be additional research on the topic of ketosis and glucose levels in participants before the results would be reviewable in any way. As well as the difficulty of finding a significant number of people in ketosis who would be willing to take psychedelic drugs for science.
Even the topic of neurogenesis with psychedelics is highly speculative at the moment and much more research is required on that under average human conditions before we can even say it's truly a thing.
And the data that could be found if all these variables were set in line? What use? I don't know the foundation research that this is building upon. I can't see it proving anything but trivialities.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from psychedelic research, but focusing on less nuanced and rare data sets might provide more information of value.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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individualist
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26411550 - 01/01/20 09:03 PM (4 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
SevR said: You can live (and well) on a diet of zero carbs at all, whereas the body has metabolic requirements for both fat and protein.
My understanding is that in the absence of dietary carbs the body has to convert these fat and protein nutrients into glucose for use by the brain.
-------------------- Question with boldness
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DJ Ed
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: individualist]
#26412279 - 01/02/20 10:39 AM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
individualist said:
Quote:
SevR said: You can live (and well) on a diet of zero carbs at all, whereas the body has metabolic requirements for both fat and protein.
My understanding is that in the absence of dietary carbs the body has to convert these fat and protein nutrients into glucose for use by the brain.
That was my understanding. My knowledge here though may all be tampered by the fact that I am diabetic. I am generally ignorant about human biology, but understood that for someone with diabetes, ketones are dangerous. I believe they are a by-product of the body metabolising fat for energy. The build up of ketones in the blood makes it acid and very toxic. This condition is known as diabetic ketoacidosis, and can be fatal in a very short time; indeed, coma within 24 hours.
But I do not believe this condition can affect somebody who does not have type 1 diabetes (insulin-dependant). Maybe in a non-diabetic ketones are not so bad, but I have no knowledge of this so no quoting me please.
I also stand by what I said because glucose, as a single molecule, can pass through the blood-brain barrier.
Ketones passing through this barrier and actually providing energy to the brain is new to me. But I am always happy to be corrected (where I’m wrong obviously lol).
Mush love, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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psysearch
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26412702 - 01/02/20 02:48 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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I’m also interested in this topic, particularly the glycolytic demand of psychedelics as well as the usage of minerals/electrolytes.
I've read studies where psychedelics increased glycolysis and others where it increased mobilization of free fatty acids so I think it's generally energy intensive. Having a look at hormones could tell you more considering they affect metabolism.
I've experimented with a low carbohydrate diet and was using psychedelics throughout, I found that if a psychedelic's glycolytic demand increases beyond what gluconeogenesis can provide it can dull the effects and a 'refeed' increases them.
Edited by psysearch (01/02/20 05:14 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Human physiology and the nutritional/metabolic cost of injesting psilocybin [Re: SevR]
#26412714 - 01/02/20 02:52 PM (4 years, 27 days ago) |
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The brain doesn't go into ketosis the liver does to supply the brain with ketones as additional energy. Simply being on low carbs will not put you into ketosis either. Ketosis isn't something a keto diet even accomplishes and when it does in extreme cases you're going to be feeling sick as hell.
There's neurogenesis at every moment of every day. On mushrooms its not like it doubles or anything remotely close to that so metabolically. You probably couldn't measure a difference it would be so small.
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