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Offliner00tcmplx
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Registered: 02/19/18
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26405094 - 12/28/19 05:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Here's my non-PC question; how do you know half the people who claim they see shit, understand what they're seeing? Yes, people are stupid and misperceive shit all the time, then play off of their own reaction and convince them they saw something, etc.




Simple, the majority of people don't see it... And there's no physical/scientific explanation for it occurring or even any basis.
If you grab a random sample of people number 100 and point to the sky and ask what color they see it will likely be blue. If you put a chair in a room and ask those 100 people what is it and the majority say chair.. It's definitely a chair there.

Now if some rando says they see a ghost and most don't.. If some person claims they were possessed by a demon that physically exists and no one else sees it well then by multiple failures of reasonable logic, it doesn't exist.. Same goes for aliens and all the other mystical bullshit. It's mainly in a person's individual head. It doesn't exist in the physical world and they are a super minority that claims it does. So, quite simply it doesn't. Also, a lot of people aren't that bright. Some have mental conditions. Some have 'religious' issues. Some have 'cultural' issues that all feed into a warped perception of reality.
A chair is definitely there, a ghost or ayyy isn't.


Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
THE absolute best case of some woman trying to play the public with this, is with the video LC posted in the UFO/Alien thread of a woman supposedly capturing an "alien" in her driveway. It's clearly her son, with a t-shirt wrapped around his head. Even when they confront them and have him mock the video, and it's obviously him trying hard not to get caught looking like the video, lo and behold people in the comments will insist this is an alien in this lady's driveway, lol.



You're going to waste a lot of time and energy trying to understand the minds of idiots/people with mental issues.

At best, I take a 'demonic attack' as a person not knowing what a subconscious is and looping so hard in a particular form of it that it becomes 'real' to them. I know exactly how this sort of thing can happen in the human brain and I know exactly why the idea of a demon physically existing in the outside world is ludicrous enough that its not even worth comment.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26405101 - 12/28/19 05:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
The paradox is that the higher our supernatural abilities are, the lower our natural resistance to supernatural phenomena are.




This is not a paradox nor does a person have supernatural abilities.
Nor is the breakdown of one's reasoned mind a supernatural phenomena.
Belief instead is a powerful construct. In the human mind, beliefs flow as fluid as the signals from one's optic nerve that give them a window into the physical world. If a person systematically plays and entertains concepts of the 'supernatural' so will become of their inner world. You do not have supernatural abilities, you have supernatural beliefs... And depending on how strong a belief, your natural mind will yield you to your internal fantasy and thus becomes of you.

Meanwhile, in the world outside your grey matter, all is natural and ordered. It's just you in that play world you constructed in your head. There's no proof of physical demons, aliens. No one can levitate with their mind. No one has super powers. No one can 'read minds'. No one can cast spells or perform magic.

Indeed, your beliefs don't determine reality. If that were the case, there would be broad based chaos. There isn't. Reality is there and is what it is. If a chair is in a room, it's a chair. If you want to believe its a alien with super powers, that's your choice and your 'world' not everyone else's.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26405114 - 12/28/19 05:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Great posts above, both of you. What are your thoughts on "entity attachments" as a concept? Do you guys think/observe/experience these "etheric vampires" latching on to weak people, drug addicts, etc? I have a working theory those people are like organic portals for that shit. Handles through which the anti-spiritual hooks can be cast into our realm. Just a thought.



Drug addicts rob their brain and body of its natural balanced function. They damage regions of their brain. They damage their emotional center. They damage their ability to perform higher thought. So, of course this manifests itself in lower minded animalistic/chaotic behavior. There's no demon God hopping through cosmic portals and taking over their bodies. Rather, it's all occurring during to natural/physical reasons explainable by science.

Long term usage of various drugs can cause structural and irreversible brain damage from perfectly scientific reasons. No demon portal jumped into your skull.. You literally and physically just fucked your brain up. It's resilient so you still maintain some degree of function.

Does a person who doesn't understand basic biology/neuro-biology call what results demonization? Also, some people's brains and brain chemistry are just fucked naturally. Others? Well, they twist their brain in knots with wild thoughts. I fail to see where anyone has a plausible story to suggest otherwise.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26405298 - 12/28/19 07:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
there's no physical/scientific explanation for it occurring or even any basis.

If some person claims they were possessed by a demon that physically exists and no one else sees it well then by multiple failures of reasonable logic, it doesn't exist..

It doesn't exist in the physical world and they are a super minority that claims it does.



It is not reasonable to require metaphysical occurances to be proven physically because physical laws only apply to the physical world. Metaphysical phenomena are not physically tangible, yet things like experiences are still real.

Every one of us controls our own physical body, which is connected to our body in the spirit world, but this doesn't mean we can bring physical objects with us into the spirit world.

Quote:

No one can cast spells or perform magic



Do you understand that magic and spellwork cannot violate physical laws?
They are a hidden (occult) means of achieving an end, not a fireworks display. Even if magic could violate physical laws by manifesting as a big flashy spell as it does in mainstream media, someone who only accepts the validity of physical occurances will find a way to explain it away using science.

Both physical reality and spiritual reality are undeniable. To believe otherwise is to refuse to acknowledge half of reality.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks] * 1
    #26405318 - 12/28/19 07:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
It is not reasonable to require metaphysical occurances to be proven physically because physical laws only apply to the physical world.




Yesterday's metaphysics is today's science. Classical physics is far different than non-classical physics and non-classical physics branches into metaphysics. The average person isn't capable of talking about classical physics much less metaphysics but attempt in the best manner they know. The best way they know how involves anthropomorphically explaining abstract concepts thus comes the idea of : ghosts/demons/angels etc. They don't exist in the real world... It's a classic and understood projection of the mind. Have a look yourself :
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/anthropomorphically
ascribing human form or attributes to a being or thing not human, especially to a deity.

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Metaphysical phenomena are not physically tangible, yet things like experiences are still real.




All things that interact with your physical body are.
You are informed of this the more you study actual science. When you become very knowledge about science you get into the theoretical realm of science which is essentially meta-physics. Metaphysics is science. It's meta-physics. Your experiences are no doubt 'real' but they're all in your head past the point that others can observe it too. The logic is ironclad.


Quote:

kneesocks said:
Every one of us controls our own physical body, which is connected to our body in the spirit world, but this doesn't mean we can bring physical objects with us into the spirit world.




Whatever you want to call this... Those that believe in this concept no doubt 'experience' it and is as I said earlier the power of belief. Others that don't believe in it don't experience it. Surprise, the logic holds.. You experience internally a subjective world informed by and colored by your beliefs.

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Both physical reality and spiritual reality are undeniable. To believe otherwise is to refuse to acknowledge half of reality.



Physical reality is undeniable and irrefutable and observable by many people. Meta-reality is a combination of the whacky beliefs and ideas your cook up in your own head and a range of meta-physics/meta-science we have yet to discover/understand.

Nothing is being refuted other than rooting why you experience what you do and I already know what a potential reply will be because your mind so married to a belief compels you to. I don't live in such an internal world. I maintain a large range of theories that sometimes conflict. However, I know them to be 'theories' and thus don't become married to any particular one. Your life is no doubt enhanced/benefited by your belief in spirits/ghosts/demons/etc which is why you maintain it against all sensible reality. You have free-will and that right...

No sense arguing with a person who lives in their own personal reality.
Just don't think your reality scales to the outside world... And ultimately don't be of the belief that science and knowledge wont eventually negate and make the concept foolish in the years as it has before. This goes without saying however because people tend to reason with what they have. The more a person understands science and reality, physics, metaphysics, biology, neuro-biology, etc etc.. The less they depend on 'out there abstractions' that isn't grounded in any concrete/testable body of knowledge :
Just believe me bro..
Absolutely not.


Edited by r00tcmplx (12/28/19 08:49 PM)


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks] * 1
    #26405328 - 12/28/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I admit that I am not very smart or rational minded but I've experienced the other side for myself, many times.
Whether they're explainable by science or not, my experiences are still real.

I understand that it's easier for you to believe in something if you saw it for yourself, but words are not very good at this kind of thing.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26405370 - 12/28/19 08:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Just don't think your reality scales to the outside world...



It does, this has been known for a long time. As above, so below.


Quote:

And ultimately don't be of the belief that science and knowledge wont eventually negate and make the concept foolish in the years as it has before.


As with the Yin and Yang, the world of science and the world of spirit are separate, yet complementary. Material and spiritual will never negate as long as our universe exists in it's current form of (non)duality.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks] * 1
    #26405390 - 12/28/19 09:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Just don't think your reality scales to the outside world...



It does, this has been known for a long time. As above, so below.


Quote:

And ultimately don't be of the belief that science and knowledge wont eventually negate and make the concept foolish in the years as it has before.


As with the Yin and Yang, the world of science and the world of spirit are separate, yet complementary. Material and spiritual will never negate as long as our universe exists in it's current form of (non)duality.




Can't argue against your subjective experience.
Only can state what is commonly objective..


A 'demon' can be so many things from just a psychological perspective, there's little fruit discussing the broad range of people and circumstances they encounter this phenomenon. Indeed it is 'real' to you.. But is there some boogie man with horns running around out there in the real world? No, nobody sees it but you. Goes for any other 'meta' concept. It doesn't render the same for everyone.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26405529 - 12/28/19 11:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I feel that the perceived duality which can be described in everything in our world is something as objective and absolute as saying that one plus one equals two.

A demon is a spirit born of the 'negative' world, and it's ability to influence depends on the amount of negative energy people feed it.
People who are in such a weakened state from accumulated stress, etc can end up opening themselves to their deception, and those who are not aware are in more danger of being deceived.
Someone could suddenly have the temptation of doing something that they know is bad, but if they don't make a conscious effort to cut away from that line of thinking immediately, they end up having more thoughts of a similar nature. Eventually rationalizing it and acting on it. They've given up control to the forces of darkness.

I think the same happened with racist and hateful people, people who suffer from addiction, and so on.

Sometimes you hear about people commiting awful crimes suddenly which others say are completely out of character for them.

Some say these kind of things are just caused by mental illnesses, but inherently mental illness isn't evil. Something evil is what's leading people towards spiritual death and down into the hell realms.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26405545 - 12/29/19 12:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
I feel that the perceived duality which can be described in everything in our world is something as objective and absolute as saying that one plus one equals two.




Perception is not objective or absolute. Else, there would be a widely shared and singular account. Instead, it is widely varied even under same conditions and closely related to a person's beliefs and experiences relating it to 'subconscious'.

Along that line and down the vein that you describe, I've 'faced' the concept of demons/angels.. It was largely driven by my immature and misguided Christian upbringing and beliefs at a time when I was younger. When I matured out of this belief system and Christianity, it 'magically' went away. It wasn't magic however. The belief died and the neural circuits that supported the memory/thoughts did too and thus it no longer was activated in times of panic/distress/uncertainty/ and or during metaphysical pondering. So, no more demons/angels. I no longer carry the belief and since it doesn't exist in the physical world, I don't encounter it even in my 'spiritual' world. And since i know more about how the brain works and my psyche I know the phenomenon and describe it as my 'adversarial' subconscious.. An amalgamation of fear and many other constructs. THe human mind is powerful and until you truly learn more about it and have knowledge/wisdom about it, you indeed will continue to think there are separate worlds/demons/angels/etc when its all in your head.

Quote:

kneesocks said:
A demon is a spirit born of the 'negative' world, and it's ability to influence depends on the amount of negative energy people feed it.




You mentioned yin/yang. You are composed of both. You have a negative and positive world inside of you and you don't fully understand it. No human being does. It 'manifests' itself in a range of ways.. those manifestations are projections. They aren't real.

I'd take a dump on one's face if I saw one.. They're weak and beneath me.
I no longer have 'fear' of what you refer to

Quote:

kneesocks said:
People who are in such a weakened state from accumulated stress, etc can end up opening themselves to their deception, and those who are not aware are in more danger of being deceived.




Weakened and compromised minds deceive themselves.. Multiple days without eating. multiple days without drinking.. Doing drugs.. all tweaks your brain and lets the 'imagination' run wild.

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Someone could suddenly have the temptation of doing something that they know is bad, but if they don't make a conscious effort to cut away from that line of thinking immediately, they end up having more thoughts of a similar nature. Eventually rationalizing it and acting on it. They've given up control to the forces of darkness.

I think the same happened with racist and hateful people, people who suffer from addiction, and so on.

Sometimes you hear about people commiting awful crimes suddenly which others say are completely out of character for them.

Some say these kind of things are just caused by mental illnesses, but inherently mental illness isn't evil. Something evil is what's leading people towards spiritual death and down into the hell realms.





Were talking past each other.
I can't critique your personal experience. I am not you. To you, it's all to real.
However, your reality doesn't scale nor is visible by others at scale. So, it is quite frankly is you and those minority of people like you's personal subjective inner world.

That inner world you don't seem to understand scientifically and when you lack understanding your imagination/experiences/memory/belief fill in the void.

That's all I can see on this.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26405616 - 12/29/19 02:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Imagination tends to show you all sorts of different things, doesn't it?
What about if you started seeing a certain thing consistently whenever you close your eyes and watch for a while? Would you still think it was your imagination?

I've seen a number of different things in internal space. Once during a vision I passed by a large Yin-yang shaped object. The odd part about that was because it had a three-dimensional shape and I had no idea what one even looked like since before that I'd only ever seen the 2D versions. At a later time this shape appeared again and turned out to be the 'tunnel' that 'pulled' me through it at an impossible speed during my near-death experience.

More recently my observations have been consistently of a large 'stone' structure in my inner vision which 'I' seem to be attached to, and it seems to be spiral-shaped, but it's vertically more complex than a spiral as seen from different points within the structure. I'm always autonomously moving through the structure, as if on a conveyor belt. The movement through the structure starts for a small period of time, and then stops for a small period of time, and then begins again in a 'cyclic' manner. Sometimes in a different direction but always following the complex shape of the structure. I can't turn to look around at anything like I can when I have dreams and visions since the viewpoint is always fixed 'forward'.

In a certain part of this structure there is an area where I see groups of people I've never seen before ascending a large set of stairs. At the top of this stairway is a 'platform' where the people then wait for something to happen at a specific point in the 'cycle'. When that time occurred, they would be sent over the edge of where they were gathered, as if pushed by some force.  From what I could see, those that fell went all the way down into a 'glowing' area, where they would ignite and start screaming. Others would float up and away, also out of view. I've only observed this area within the structure twice, but based off of what happens there, wouldn't it make sense to identify this area as 'Judgement' and the groups of people as some of the recently deceased?

I've been watching it for a while now and it's way too consistent to be imaginary. So I've been reading up in search of anything which could explain this consistency and what I've found tells me it could be the 'clockwork' of my internal Taiji turning, or it may even be that of the universal structure. I'm not certain which one it is yet, but I don't really think it's the universal structure. Unless there's some purpose behind an initiate like me being given the ability to perceive it?

Here's the part that corresponds with the movements in the structure as it starts and stops at intervals.

Quote:

Taiji is understood to be the highest conceivable principle, that from which existence flows. This is very similar to the Daoist idea "reversal is the movement of the Dao". The "supreme ultimate" creates yang and yin: movement generates yang; when its activity reaches its limit, it becomes tranquil. Through tranquility the supreme ultimate generates yin. When tranquility has reached its limit, there is a return to movement. Movement and tranquility, in alternation, become each the source of the other. The distinction between the yin and yang is determined and the two forms (that is, the yin and yang) stand revealed. By the transformations of the yang and the union of the yin, the 5 elements (Qi) of water, fire, wood, metal and earth are produced. These 5 Qi become diffused, which creates harmony. Once there is harmony the 4 seasons can occur. Yin and yang produced all things, and these in their turn produce and reproduce, this makes these processes never ending. (Wu, 1986)




--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


Edited by kneesocks (12/29/19 02:39 AM)


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Offlinedrinkkykeon
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26407018 - 12/29/19 10:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I recently had an episode of sleep paralysis ( I get these some times, maybe once or twice per year, always when watching tv on the couch). What makes this episode unique is that it happened about 1 hour after I decided to take 2 grams of mushrooms with lemon juice.

I was on the couch when I started to get some mild visuals when all of a sudden my vision becomes triangular and can't open my eyes. I can't speak to turn on the lights with Alexa or get up. The entire thing lasted about 1 minute but I was terrified because I felt like a spirit or force was pinning me down.

The more I thought about it the demon/spirit theory fell apart. Even if it were true, is this is all a demon can do to me? Make me uncomfortable for 1 minute? lol

I am learning a lot about my mind with mushrooms and most of it is liberating and positive, pretty much what r00tcmplx says in this thread is my experience. The more I learn about psychedelics and science the less irrational my explanations become.

The people who see demons/angels/spirits/ghosts are never scientifically literate and in nearly all cases simply repeating religious fear propaganda they were unwittingly traumatized by earlier in life.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: drinkkykeon]
    #26407166 - 12/30/19 02:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You can be as scientific and logical as you want but it won't protect you from the repercussions of negative karma. In our world it's best to have a balance. Too much focus on the spiritual causes material poverty. Too much focus on the material causes spiritual poverty.
The important thing to remember is that spiritual development is what is carries over from one life to the next. Anything you gain materially does not.
I don't share what I experience to make you afraid. If people sharing their experiences causes you to believe that, it's more likely that fear was already coming from somewhere within you.
Maybe you really fear experiencing millions of cycles of death and rebirth without making any spiritual progress? In that case you should be concerned. But if you're okay with such a path, by all means look away and call it scienticially illiterate.

Also sleep paralysis isn't anything supernatural.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26407183 - 12/30/19 02:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Also what's the point of even coming to the Spirituality and Mysticism section if you only came here to tell people how correct science is and to not believe in their experiences? There's another section for that.

Did you come here to learn? In that case you can read about people's spiritual beliefs and mystical experiences.

It seems that you have an issue with people spreading religious and spiritual beliefs, but aren't you saying to everybody in a discussion about spirituality that belief in spirits is wrong and that science is the only acceptable belief? Isn't that exactly what religious zealots do and why people are critical of them?

I don't understand.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offlinedrinkkykeon
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26409254 - 12/31/19 12:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I have no reason to believe in other peoples's experiences. Personal revelations are just that. I'm here to learn and what I've learned so far is that our minds are more powerful than we will ever realize.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: drinkkykeon]
    #26410470 - 01/01/20 05:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There's no discussion to be had from responding with "I don't believe you" to somebody who is sharing an experience they had.

It's one thing to be wary of what you decide to personally believe in, and it's another thing to use one's words to openly dismiss the fact that people experience especially here of all places.

If someone goes for a walk, smells toast and then shares the experience later in a discussion about scents, and someone decides to call the toast smeller a liar, how is that helpful to anyone? It would have been better to not say anything instead.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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OfflineRorge
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Re: Demonic attacks [Re: kneesocks]
    #26415693 - 01/04/20 08:59 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I used to get night terrors and I also have what I think might be demons willing me to not move my body. Which I’ve done in public much to others’ dismay.


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