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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 13 minutes
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Kickle]
    #26448489 - 01/23/20 03:56 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

Mr. D Green said:

Trying to be something your not...the source of all social anxiety..prove me wrong.




Is that even possible? If someone is trying to be anything, that is what they are, no?




The ancient Greek aphorism "know thyself" seems pithy to some, but many find it to be the deepest most profound directive one can embrace. I've found it to be a incredibly difficult but fruitful journey. My long habitual history of being fake and wearing a façade is largely rooted in shame and self-loathing. I've been afraid to express my true self due to fear, which has deep roots. I've spent much of my life in a state of hiding and deception. 

Total self-acceptance has been a challenge for me. In part because there are so many layers of suffering, it's taken a lot to get to know who I am. 6 years ago, working with a therapist, I began to learn what I truly want in life. I felt embarrassed because I was so lost I did not even know the kind of food I enjoy and want to eat. It took me a year of work in therapy to be able to tell my friends I am an artist. I always thought they would laugh at me.

Unfortunately, we often talk about anxiety and depression as conditions instead of reactions - which have psychological causes and motivations. Just like road rage.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26448913 - 01/23/20 07:56 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

anxiety is kind of agitation, like an agitated state,
it can have chemical source and may have assoicative triggers strong memories with defensiveness, aversion, dread, apprehension, guilt or shame.

this can build or loop if the triggers are common in social situation - increasing the anxiety and amplifying the feelings from the bad memories.

see if you can remember the first awareness of the problem and revisit those memories calmly in private - I think this will lead to a more mature approach, one with less anxiety and more understanding of your self. Conversation can be more easy if one is not defensive.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 13 minutes
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26449948 - 01/24/20 12:42 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

anxiety is kind of agitation, like an agitated state . . .




That's insightful. Anxiety is often the manifestation of an inner conflict - the root of all neurosis. In the case of social anxiety, the conflict between who we truly are and the person we wish to be. All emotional disturbances are a form of agitation. The easiest to understand and appreciate is chronic anger and rage, but it's also a big factor when we depress ourselves.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Mr. D Green]
    #26450248 - 01/24/20 03:49 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. D Green said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Mr. D Green said:
Trying to be something your not...the source of all social anxiety..prove me wrong.




Assuming this is true, Mr. D Green, why does it cause anxiety for some, but not others, in your view?




It is human basics..being a human 101.
The only people who do not get social anxiety are the ones who are not acting, people pleasing, trying to blend in/fit it; w/e you want to call it. Choking your self...that is anxiety. Understand?




Yes I understand - I think there is something to what you say - but its not the whole story
1) folks in many professions lie, for a living.
Salesmen, lawyers, politicians, many business people, the CIA, Tobacco companies, etc.
2) of course criminals & conmen
....You might argue there is some sort of difference, between this type of deception and what you call 'being true to yourself' I suppose.
But ordinary folks also take it into their personal relationships:
3) folks having affairs
4) Parents and kids lie to one another
5) many social situations require some sort of deception
6) clothing is designed to deceive
7) people applying for jobs
etc....

So what needs to be explained is why some folks are prone to guilt, shame, & conscience and anxiety in this regard, and some are not - IMO.



"We're all hypocrites. Why? Hypocrisy is the natural state of the human mind.

Robert Kurzban shows us that the key to understanding our behavioral inconsistencies lies in understanding the mind's design. The human mind consists of many specialized units designed by the process of evolution by natural selection. While these modules sometimes work together seamlessly, they don't always, resulting in impossibly contradictory beliefs, vacillations between patience and impulsiveness, violations of our supposed moral principles, and overinflated views of ourselves.

This modular, evolutionary psychological view of the mind undermines deeply held intuitions about ourselves, as well as a range of scientific theories that require a "self" with consistent beliefs and preferences. Modularity suggests that there is no "I." Instead, each of us is a contentious "we"--a collection of discrete but interacting systems whose constant conflicts shape our interactions with one another and our experience of the world.

In clear language, full of wit and rich in examples, Kurzban explains the roots and implications of our inconsistent minds, and why it is perfectly natural to believe that everyone else is a hypocrite."

from: " Why Everyone (Else) Is a Hypocrite: Evolution and the Modular Mind" by Robert Kurzban

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Everyone-Else-Hypocrite-Evolution/dp/0691154392/ref=sr_1_2?crid=HBLT9ER4GTO1&keywords=why+everyone+else+is+a+hypocrite&qid=1579905831&sprefix=why+everyone%2Caps%2C291&sr=8-2


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
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Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26451106 - 01/25/20 02:16 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:

OP, when was your last trip, of any chemical variety? Serious question!




My psychedelic period was '85 - '95. My last few trips were at Dead shows, just before Jerry passed. So very grateful for those experiences. My primary growing years were 2000-2010. I probably grew 15 pounds of Tasmanian, B+, and Australian. Last year I was feeling low and stuck wallowing in the doldrums and wanted to trip because I knew it would help me snap out of it. My buddy has a big bag I gave him 5 years ago (when I gave away my lab equipment to a friend and taught him to grow) but I never made the 2 hour drive to pick some up.

How about you? Did you eat some fresh caps for breakfast Loaded Shaman?

RJ




Great post, thank you for sharing, RJ :sunny:.

My last trip was solstice in December. I go about once a year on average now. Seems to be the best rotation for my spiritual and philosophical breakthrough needs lol.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisiblestevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety *DELETED* [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26464045 - 02/01/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by stevo

Reason for deletion: .


Edited by stevo (03/13/20 11:57 AM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 13 minutes
Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: stevo] * 1
    #26464887 - 02/02/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I suspect the human attention span in developed countries has shrunken dramatically over the last 20 years. It's an important point to consider regarding conversations. Maybe a good approach is to avoid long diatribes and stories - and allow follow-up remarks and questions to open the door for further elaboration. The skills of good follow-up questions really helps integrate a conversation and greatly deepens intimacy. You might share you're a 49ers fan. No biggie. But a follow up question could reveal how deeply you miss your (diseased) father and the wonderful memories of going to football games together.     


Nothing makes us so lonely as our secrets.

Paul Tournier


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