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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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The art of conversation and social anxiety
    #26404785 - 12/28/19 02:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I suspect a lot of social anxiety is fueled by a lack of ability to comfortably engage in causal conversation. Recently, at holiday gatherings, I've heard friends say "I hate small talk.". I've asked what they hate about it, in an attempt to understand why "small talk" is so difficult. One friend, Donna, said she hates listening to people talk about things she's not interested in.

20 years ago I hated social situations where I was expected to engage in casual conversation. But I began working on my conversation skills, focusing on asking good questions and listening. Fast forward to now, and just yesterday I spent 3 hours at a Starbucks chatting with a friend of mine. I feel the art of conversation is largely rooted in asking quality questions and actually listening.

Do you work on your social skills or have thoughts about the art of conversation? Although talking about the weather might be "small talk", anything meaningful that's shared (even if the person is passionate about ancient Egyptian pottery) is not small.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 4
    #26404800 - 12/28/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I've always found it quite easy to engage in conversation, but I do get bored with it fairly easily. However, dialogue with a good friend or someone who has good ideas can be very stimulating, and sometimes valuable. As far as small talk, whether or not one is really engaged, it can often be a way to make the person you are talking to more comfortable, which is compassionate.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26404832 - 12/28/19 02:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

One challenge to having a pleasant conversation is when there is a lopsided talk-listen ratio. Some people just ramble on and on. For example, I have a friend when we get together, the talk listen ratio is about 7:1 - for every 7 minutes he talks I get a chance to talk for 1 minute. It's so one sided (he never asks me about my life) that I avoid him sometimes when he comes thru town.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26404845 - 12/28/19 02:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes that can be a virtually insurmountable problem. What I really dislike is when the other person can't think of anything to say, so you are the only one making conversation. Although as you point out, for some people it can be difficult, and I understand that.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26404900 - 12/28/19 03:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The "I don't know what to say" stressor can really cause us to feel stuck. This stressing handicaps us even more and further inhibits conversation, as we shift and squirm in distress. (I need another drink!) Every person has something important and of value in their life, even if it's a pet dog or a collection of ancient Egyptian marbles or a passionate interest in poetry. Most people enjoy talking about what interests them, and a well placed question can really spark someone to open up. Just asking someone their pet's name or pedigree can get someone to open up. You do not have to know anything about what they find of value. If they drive a hot rod race car you can ask what year it was built or where they got it or how they modified it, etc.     

When I become bored in a conversation it's often due to there not being a balance in talking and listening.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26404950 - 12/28/19 03:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

One curious aspect is that interest will be on the person or the topic. If the interest is on the person, any topic is fine. If the interest is on the topic, some topics may be boring. A general statement might suggest being topic oriented is more self centered, although obviously it's not always the topic that's boring or holds other disparate qualities.

I have a friend who I've known forever. He's very cynical, though in stating that it went beyond mistrust and included a general view of humanity as stupid, gullible, etc. Very smart too. I used to be much more cynical than I am now so we could vibe well. These days we still share a lot of viewpoints but the character of the discussion doesn't match. I don't enjoy reveling in the ignorance of humanity like I may have in the past.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26404956 - 12/28/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

social anxiety is like feeling you are being examined, judged or threatened.
I often revert to this but it is more like twinges from childhood past.

easy conversation smooths the situation, like diplomacy, or entertainment, it can be calming.

some need to talk to surround themselves with comforting assurances of their own echoes.

we are all subject to it, no one trick fixes the pain, but with all the triggering going on, at least some times there is a glimmer of something more lovely.

a smile, a gleam in the eye.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26405581 - 12/29/19 01:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

People who "hate small talk" are usually the ones with the least amount of interesting shit to say in the first place, but will be the first people to complain about something they can easily solve themselves.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 3
    #26405813 - 12/29/19 07:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The art of conversation is not an art, is like a combat sport. You need to practice it to be good at it. When you stop practicing, the techniques will remain but you will be worse at it.

The main reason most people have social anxiety is because their past experiences made them relate social interaction with bad things happening.

Emotional responses as rooted whithin emotional past, one can rationallize the thought but that doesn't make the emotional response to stop.
In order to stop having anxiety on social situation one must have good experiences while socializing.


Imagine that everytime you get a hardon an invisible ninja gives you a kick in the balls. Eventually you will start having anxiety when you have a hardon just expecting a kick in the balls. With enough time, even when there is no longer a ninja kicking you in the balls, the hardon-anxiety will remain.

Yes, of course having controlled enviroments of small talk can make those good experiencies that will lower the anxiety, however it can still be troublesome.
Imagine someone with no friends, and no friends all his live, only bullyng. When he is 40, he small talks for first time in his life with a good person, the experience is so good that he expects now to get a friend, sadly the good person was just small talking because he was bored, so he refuses the friendship. The failure of expectations might actually be considered a bad experience itself, making the social anxiety continues.


I like small talking with woman i see as sexually attractive or with bosses that might actually improve my career. I don't see the point in small talking with anybody else.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: living_failure]
    #26405827 - 12/29/19 07:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

your outlook is about gaming the system, winning or losing.

I think that you have a good sense of operant conditioning, however, and can benefit from seeing how conditioning, or association, has made you so oriented to gaming.

not that it is such a bad thing...


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26406141 - 12/29/19 11:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

One curious aspect is that interest will be on the person or the topic. If the interest is on the person, any topic is fine. If the interest is on the topic, some topics may be boring.



This is the exact perspective I've adopted. Having an interest in the person means whatever they find of value is of interest to me, because sharing what we value is intimacy. I have a close friend of 25 years who has always believed in UFO's, The Illuminati, government conspiracies, and he tells me he's often visited by extra terrestrials. It used to bug me, but now I generally just let it go.     

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

social anxiety is like feeling you are being examined, judged or threatened.
I often revert to this but it is more like twinges from childhood past.




I think that's a good description. It's related to feeling self-conscious, which I struggle with a lot. It's not based on any real threat of being judged - it does seem to arise from something deep inside that is rooted in fear - maybe related to a strong desire for social acceptance, which is quite functional from an evolutionary viewpoint.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26406388 - 12/29/19 01:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

as a reductionist I call all of it "being defensive"
I am still learning how to recognize and smooth the edges of that habit which got stuck onto so many goofy triggers.


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OfflineAegis
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26406978 - 12/29/19 10:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

What most people consider conversation or small talk is really just talking themselves onto a pedestal and tearing other folks down. It's mind numbing. That and most don't listen, it seems they spend most of their time thinking about what they are gonna say next instead of listening. Around here its; hunting, fishing, football, god; in that order. All fucking day every day. Heres how it goes:

[Joe]: hey you go hunting yesterday.
[Me]: (politely) no, don't hunt.
[Joe]: (staring like i just cussed him) well what'd you think about the game.
[Me]: I don't follow footbal.
Then a whole bunch of I bought this I did that, so and so said this but i said that, let me show you my new abc its better than so and so's. Hey did you hear so and so did this. Blah blahblahblahblah.
Etc.

1 week later

[Me]: Sup joe.
[Joe]: hey how've you been. Do any hunting last weekend?
[Me]: I don't hunt
Etc.

1 week later

same conversation

1 week later
Same

1week later
Same

1 week later

[Me]: hey joe.
[Joe]: hey, you going huntin tomorrow?
[Me]: ?

This goes on every day with everybody here.


--------------------
"We are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.” - T. Mckenna


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Aegis]
    #26407964 - 12/30/19 03:12 PM (4 years, 30 days ago)

I think people just want to connect a bit and they approach that in the best way they know how with all their vices and virtues rolled in. Everyone has both to some extent, people can usually do better but it's hard to see past our sins. We do the best we can for the most part.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Grapefruit] * 5
    #26408421 - 12/30/19 08:20 PM (4 years, 30 days ago)

For better or worse, much of what passes as small talk is part of the need for validation and drama, what Eric Berne (Games People Play) classifies as games. According to the book bad drama is what keeps most people alive in the absence of good drama, the idea being that bad drama stimulates the nervous system and keeps it healthy while an absence of drama of any kind causes the nervous system to atrophy.

When someone complains, it's likely part of a game, the beginnings of which the listener may not be privy to except through the story given. Even "I hate small talk" could be part of a game which started before the conversation. Ironically, talking about how one hates small talk is small talk.

I guess everyone will have their limits, but it could be worth considering that dealing with conversation topics that don't interest is playing a part in someone else's mental health, even if it's negative crap being conveyed, though contributing to someone's health and someone's happiness are two different things.

Interestingly RJ Tubs, Berne suggests that bad drama is much more common than good drama because most people are to large degree incapable of intimacy, intimacy and good drama being somewhat interchangeable.

Should one partake in games as the third party in a person's wheel of misery if it is providing something better than that person's mental atrophy in aloneness? I suppose the enjoyment of such a position would entail one's own benefit in taking part in a drama. People like to think they're islands to themselves but I think for the most part, in the absence of good drama, people seek out bad drama. This is why it could be important to recognize good drama, partake in good drama, create one's own good drama, so that one isn't left chewing leather because it's better than nothing. I'm not suggesting there aren't those who can go for long periods with no drama, but even in such cases good drama is probably still better than no drama. Is being a loner a natural preference or an indicator of intimacy issues?

Anyway, Games People Play is an interesting book I would recommend for people interested in social transaction.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Rahz]
    #26408665 - 12/31/19 01:13 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)

I tend to get lost socially in interactions involving more than 2 people. By lost, I mean, zoning out. I suspect I also begin listening more as well.

I have very good social acuity and am very perceptive but my ungrounded demeanor makes focusing on some conversations difficult unless it captures me.

I’m great with the art of one on one conversation. Something about groups just disorients me.

I used to have social anxiety but I felt that was generally stemming from perceived lack of competence in certain social situations. Increasing that sense of competence has reduced that. Also, the art of not caring as much about inevitably being received negatively by some people, etc. Life’s too short for all that and there’s a microphone waiting for each and every one of us. We’re all characters in our own ways and I think amplifying these defining / distinctive features is a wonderful thing.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: CountHTML]
    #26408691 - 12/31/19 02:08 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)

I have the ability to talk about just about any topic to any person as long as they remain enthusiastic and I'm not expected to be an emotional sponge the entire fucking conversation. I do have introvert tendencies and being around people who are all smoke and no fire is fucking exhausting. I get a good 12 hours out of my day before my head "closes shop" and it's bong time and YouTube/recovery.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Aegis]
    #26408783 - 12/31/19 05:32 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)

wait a minute!
is this forum about small-talk, meaningless self affirmations, and repetitive inanity?
I thought we were pushing the envelope or something, but, I see you could be on to something.

after all,
some people write without reading, and what they write is unreadable...
(does that mean I am not reading and just self affirming...)


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26408810 - 12/31/19 06:09 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)

What is this forum really about?  :waits:


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: The art of conversation and social anxiety [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26408823 - 12/31/19 06:26 AM (4 years, 29 days ago)

I got to understand that the world is not negative

that almost no experience is negative



we should make art

what we do affects how we have it forever


painting one minute we have it way better for the rest of our lives


get an aeron chair

look good

white magic


not doing drugs


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


Edited by Ferdinando (08/05/20 01:08 PM)


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