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OfflineBeekly
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Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links
    #26404533 - 12/28/19 11:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hello all.

Recently I discovered HPPD is a thing, which shocked me. I don't have it or anything but have been doing psychedelics for so long without knowing it is a risk. I have been doing mushrooms for practically a decade (a few trips every summer) and recently got into LSD. I also enjoyed Salvia divinorum in the past and have tried a few RC's. I figured I would gather some information on it as it both terrifies and intrigues me. It also bothers me how unknown and stigmatized it is and think since there is talk about legalizing psychedelics in Canada and America, people should be aware of the risk. I at first doubted it due to past lies and misinformation from our government about various drugs and because of biases towards the positive effects of psychedelics.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/drugs/hallucinogens/hppd/ This source says it is most often caused by LSD. It also says there is only 1 recorded incident where psilocybin caused it. I think based on the forums here that that is not the case.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/drugs/hallucinogens/hppd/ Another source about HPPD. States it can be as common as 4% of hallucinogen users and that dose does not matter. Seems a bit like scare tactics, but IDK. States a common theory as to the cause of HPPD is the brain not being able to filter out unnecessary signals.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1566896810276728/ Here is one of a few facebook support groups.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/7xkxey/when-drugs-fuck-you-up-forevero A vice article on HPPD. Mentions how only 1 in 6 doctors know about it.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320181.php#outlook A medical page on HPPD

https://www.bjmp.org/content/25-years-hallucinogen-persisting-perception-disorder-diagnostic-challenge A man who has had HPPD for 25 years, and his treatment with Clonazepam

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17992247/fpart/all/vc/1 Another forum on HPPD with a poll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect#Reversing_the_effect Unrelated, but the McCollough effect where an optical illusion can last for months.

Finding info on this disorder may be tricky as it is hardly researched, there is little literature, and it relies on self reporting.

Here are some questions I have:
How long does HPPD typically last?
Does frequent use or high doses increase someones risk of getting HPPD?
What drugs are more likely to cause it? I hear 2C-I, MDMA, amphetamines and LSD are known in many cases.
If amphetamines cause it, has anyone prescribed Adderall experienced it when prescribed that drug or ADD/ADHD, or is it usually from high recreational doses?
Does someone have to trip to have HPPD, or could micro-dosing lead to it?
Would tripping on the same drug or a different hallucinogen make it better or worse? or is it a case by case scenario?
Do mixtures of drugs lead to higher prevalence of HPPD?
Does a family history of mental illness contribute to an increased risk of getting HPPD?
When does something go from afterglow to HPPD?
Are there any other psychological conditions or types of psychosis that hallucinogens and psychedelics can cause?
If a person were to do a brain scan, would their brain structure still look like it would when tripping? somewhere in between? it's own structure and function? or sober?
Anyone famous or notable with HPPD? Aldous Huxley? Joe Rogan?

Please post information, experiences with HPPD and/or links to anything about HPPD. I am very interested in cases of it. My heart actually aches for anyone with HPPD, especially if it is super disruptive and long lasting.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Beekly]
    #26404566 - 12/28/19 11:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's largely due just to the individuals brain chemistry. Although I'm sure large doses and frequent use makes it more likely if your a person who's already susceptible. I don't think there's any risk with microdosing but I may be wrong. 4% honestly seems kind of high but I may be wrong. I think serious long term cases are well under 1% of users. I've had mild hppd but it cleared up after a couple months of not tripping. And psychedelics had helped so much with my depression and things at the time that the short term hppd was no problem. It never effected my life in any significant way and was only temporary. I had much more serious and long term hppd from dxm which is sort of a fucked up kind of dissociative. Much less safe than say ketamine. And definitely less safe than a traditional psychedelic.


Edited by azramb (12/28/19 12:00 PM)


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26404571 - 12/28/19 11:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I’m of the opinion that almost everyone gets HPPD, just with some people it’s gone within a day and for others it takes months. Most people I’ve tripped with have subtle afterimages and a bit of snow after the comedown.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26404593 - 12/28/19 12:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I honestly think that a lot of the time long term hppd isn't really hppd so much but anxiety. Psychedelics can bring things about yourself to the forefront of your mind that you've been suppressing. And if you fail to actually work through it it'll just get worse. Anxiety can cause visual distortions. Certain people just shouldn't trip without a therapist present. Most people are okay without one but there's no shame in tripping with someone who's qualified. Whether that be with a therapist or a "shaman" type person or whatever floats your boat. Someone to talk you through things.


Edited by azramb (12/28/19 12:15 PM)


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26404606 - 12/28/19 12:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Not sure about that one. I definitely noticed my vision changed after taking pyschs a bunch, and slowly reverted to normal in the days after. I’m sure anxiety could make you notice the distortions more but I don’t think anything short of a psychotic panic attack could actually cause them.


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OfflineBabylonRuleDem
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26404608 - 12/28/19 12:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

azramb said:
I honestly think that a lot of the time long term hppd isn't really hppd so much but anxiety. Psychedelics can bring things about yourself to the forefront of your mind that you've been suppressing. And if you fail to actually work through it it'll just get worse. Anxiety can cause visual distortions.




Ding, ding, ding! we have a winner.

HPPD is akin to PTSD in this manner: we used to call it "shell shock", but nowadays we need sophisticated academic terms for anything and everything...
rather than elaborate Ill direct you to the professor


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26404674 - 12/28/19 01:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Not sure about that one. I definitely noticed my vision changed after taking pyschs a bunch, and slowly reverted to normal in the days after. I’m sure anxiety could make you notice the distortions more but I don’t think anything short of a psychotic panic attack could actually cause them.



Your misinformed about anxiety then. It 100% can cause visual distortions. I know people personally who have experienced this. Some visual snow and things for a couple days or maybe a little longer after a trip isn't really abnormal. Just general afterglow type effects. But that's not really hppd or an anxiety problem.


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26404685 - 12/28/19 01:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Not pretending to be an expert but personally I am 100% convinced my symptoms are real


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26404701 - 12/28/19 01:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Not pretending to be an expert but personally I am 100% convinced my symptoms are real



I'm not saying they're not. But it does seem like you have a fair bit of anxiety about it which doesn't help the effects in any case. I'm not in your body so idk if you really are anxious just my observation.


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OfflineBabylonRuleDem
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26404709 - 12/28/19 01:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Not pretending to be an expert but personally I am 100% convinced my symptoms are real




Had a buddy that used to say this after we took mushrooms. Would show me all the info he could find and let me know everytime he thought he was having "an episode".
Buuuut...he also told me cracking my neck would release the acid that had accumulated there:facepalm:

Fear, paranoia, and anxiety are real. If Bill O' Reily is correct in saying you are new to tripping then i would say 99% chance u dont have hppd.

However i 100% believe that you 100% believe you have hppd. The mind is a powerful thing. The placebo effect shows us this.


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26404716 - 12/28/19 01:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

azramb said:
Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Not pretending to be an expert but personally I am 100% convinced my symptoms are real



I'm not saying they're not. But it does seem like you have a fair bit of anxiety about it which doesn't help the effects in any case. I'm not in your body so idk if you really are anxious just my observation.




Not really. More just anxious about what would happen if I trip more and a bit disappointed that I can’t, like some people who can do it multiple times per week and not have effects that make them stop.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26404743 - 12/28/19 01:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
like some people who can do it multiple times per week and not have effects that make them stop.



No one needs to be tripping that frequently anyway man. Unless your talking about microdosing like 1/10th or 1/20th of a gram of cubes.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: BabylonRuleDem]
    #26404756 - 12/28/19 01:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BabylonRuleDem said:
he also told me cracking my neck would release the acid that had accumulated there:facepalm:



Lawl.

Quote:

BabylonRuleDem said:
The mind is a powerful thing. The placebo effect shows us this.



Very true.


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Invisiblemu5h13
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I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/06/19
Posts: 67
Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: azramb]
    #26405966 - 12/29/19 09:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Psychedelic experiences alter the way our brains interpret visual information (hence the visual distortions we get during them).

Hypothesis:
So once the ability to process visual information in this new way has been used, it's easier for us to continue using this new method of processing visual information after tripping.
So maybe someone who is "looking for visuals" beofre/during/after a trip is more likely to continue using these pathways for processing visual information, resulting in "HPPD".
Then some people are able to "let go" of the trip sooner afterwards, encouraging the brain to use the original networks for visual processing, while others get "stuck" (fully/partially) in this new way of processing visual information.

What do you guys reckon?


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: BabylonRuleDem]
    #26406064 - 12/29/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BabylonRuleDem said:
Quote:

Korean Jesus said:
Not pretending to be an expert but personally I am 100% convinced my symptoms are real




Buuuut...he also told me cracking my neck would release the acid that had accumulated there:facepalm:





Worked for me :laugh:


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Korean Jesus]
    #26406595 - 12/29/19 03:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I've had very strong visual disturbances after some experiences that have lasted weeks to months. Cannabis prolonged the disturbances greatly, and having spoken to others who have experienced similar that's also been a major trigger for them.

I never really considered it an issue except on odd occasions during driving or trying to have serious conversations. I can imagine it could become very debilitating over time if you worry about it, but mostly it's just a minor distraction. Same as tinnitus.

I think it's pretty common, most trippers experience it to some degree. There's just the odd person who really gets it bad. From the anecdotes I've read these serious cases are generally not hard core trippers who have fried themselves, but predisposed people who get it from just a few or even just a single psychedelic experience.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Northerner]
    #26406632 - 12/29/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mu5h13 said:
Psychedelic experiences alter the way our brains interpret visual information (hence the visual distortions we get during them).

Hypothesis:
So once the ability to process visual information in this new way has been used, it's easier for us to continue using this new method of processing visual information after tripping.
So maybe someone who is "looking for visuals" beofre/during/after a trip is more likely to continue using these pathways for processing visual information, resulting in "HPPD".
Then some people are able to "let go" of the trip sooner afterwards, encouraging the brain to use the original networks for visual processing, while others get "stuck" (fully/partially) in this new way of processing visual information.

What do you guys reckon?



Maybe. But when one takes highly visual psychedelics it's kind of irrelevant what you want or are looking for. But there is certainly a focus issue. The same as tinnitus drives some people to insanity whilst most live with it and it just becomes background noise.

The people I know who have experienced it strongly, ongoing for years, were triggered by 25-x compounds. Sure these things are trippy af, but that didn't happen to the vast majority of people who tried this stuff. Most are fine. Same as with LSD. But there's the odd person who just fucks out for whatever reason.

If they weren't spinning out about the noise in their vision they may well be candidates to be washing their hands one hundred times a day. Some people are just like that.


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OfflineEsotericOdyssey
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Re: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Information, Links [Re: Beekly]
    #27537232 - 11/10/21 01:12 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I recently took 2, 100ug hits of acid and I can still see auruas, visual snow, and even some minimal visual distortion at times. It has been 1 week since I dosed. Its my 5th time using lsd, but it is the first time I've experienced these after effects for longer than 24 hours. It is in no way uncomftorable or unsettling, and I really don't even notice it unless I focus on it. Can't say for sure if this is HPPD or not, but it doesn't bother me enough to find out. Psylicibin on the other hand has never given me these after effects in any way


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