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Offlineqman
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26398283 - 12/23/19 08:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26398574 - 12/24/19 03:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,386
Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #26398779 - 12/24/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.






i don't agree with your conclusion here at all.  Take California for instance.  100+ years of fire suppression to try to destroy the Natives' way of life (food supply: acorns, tools: baskets/vessels made of hazel, etc.) allowed the fuel load all across the state to stack up to unprecedented levels. 

Followed by towns and subdivisions being built right up into and beyond the wildland-urban interface (WUI) without doing anything to remove or reduce the fuel loads.  Houses are built of highly flammable materials on the exterior and filled with pockets/gaps for embers to land in.


It's basically the equivalent of building your house in the valley of a seasonal river then cursing god for destroying your house when the rain comes. 

If people managed the forests properly and/or stopped building in areas that have historically burnt annually or every few years and built houses to fire-hardened specs, wildfires in California would be nowhere near as destructive or costly.



edit:  logging in CA completely changed the landscape that had developed over tens of thousands of years.  the conifers have moved in after all the large Redwoods/Firs were cut, exposing the understory to sun it had not seen.  Fir trees take over, marching through the land, and kill out most other trees in their path by depriving them of sun.  so now you have an even denser stand of green material, with lots of dead standing trees acting as ladder fuel and/or allowing the rapid spread of crown fires (which embers can travel for miles on the wind before burning up, which then causes fires to spread more rapidly.) /end edit


There's so much more to say on this topic, but i'm not going into it here.

TLDR; humans are ignorant of their actions and the consequences that follow.  not to mention short-sighted.


Edited by Tulipslave (12/24/19 07:57 AM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26403569 - 12/27/19 07:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
What exactly do doubters doubt?




There was some interesting commentary on one of the shows here as to why Australia is so divided on the issue/s, (as opposed to say the U.K.
which is on track to be rid of coal by 2025? I think?) and the blame lies squarely at the feet of politicians for turning a scientific debate into a political one.

So anyone who blinks first when it comes to linking these fires to the changing climate is shot down with logic that goes something along the line of  'well Captain Cook saw smoke as he sailed down the coastline so nerr nerrrr'
or
Australia has always had bushfires = which is a dog whistle to toughen the fuck up snowflake.
etc

If we had no coal Aus would be bleating loudly about these fires, however thanks to SKY news, no.
... seriously I wish the world would check out the GARBAGE commentary that passes as news nightly on SKY Aus and give Rupert Murdoch a kick in the arse.

Here's an example Paul Murray and his often guest hosts EX POLITICIANS Bronwyn Bishop and Mark Latham :facepalm3:
It's Bronwyn you can hear groaning in the background as she is presented with a few facts.

These people, are the problem.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403576 - 12/27/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

We are "divided" because we rely on coal an ore to pay the bills.

A bit like the States and guns.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403613 - 12/27/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, it's politicised due to the revenue generated, jobs of course.

I'm trying to remember a more divisive issue... maybe immigration/asylum seekers.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403631 - 12/27/19 08:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Depends who's lifetime you're looking at.

Always forces pushing against each other with the halfway line being the here and now.

Mabo.
Gay rights.
Asylum.
Vietnam.
Unions.
Religion and state.
Capitalism...or not.

Have been mine.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403672 - 12/27/19 09:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

For sure.

The Franklin River Dam comes to mind as well as the Right to march street marches here in Qld in the 70's when I was in high school.

Even with power prices set to drop by 20% over the next 3 years in Queensland, with Renewables being the primary driver, the LNP
are still determined to put a new coal fired generator here as well 'the other' 'coal state' of New South Wales.

South Australia doesn't have this peculiar problem, why?... no coal.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26403831 - 12/27/19 11:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Labour state government when the hard decisions needed to be made against the long standing industry.

We were putting in windmills whilst everybody else was laughing at us.

It's now obviously the right decision and we wont be turning back/you wont get in unless your pro renewable.


--------------------
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OnlineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403889 - 12/28/19 12:31 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I feel for Aussiie I'm about 40 min away from massive stretches of wildfire scortched earth here in SoCal. Buddies watched it burn while in traffic on the way to work the last big one. Thank God we live in the high desert which just means it's cold and windy as shit all the time or really hot.Everyones dumb run out joke about our area is we only have 2 seasons which isn't uncommon but in Southern California it's not ideal California living.


--------------------
R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa
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That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26403938 - 12/28/19 01:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Labour state government yes... driven at a state level yes... and you guys have no coal, just saying.

I also think S.A. rocks when it comes to renewable energy :thumbup:
The coal States numbers are appalling, it's almost embarrassing to quote Queensland's target and we have a record amount of solar.

I'm pretty sure Labour didn't win a single seat north of Brisbane here last Federal election, yes the retiree tax was one reason but the main reason was the attack on coal.
The big banks make noise as if they aren't investing in coal... but they still are.

If it wasn't for The Greens forcing Labour to spend some money on renewables, Australia would be in a further embarrassing position.

More 'science' from SKY news showing why the Bureau of Metereorology is wrong and this 'expert' with a full 8 years interest experience + some anecdotal evidence is right :facepalm3:


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26404006 - 12/28/19 02:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Why is the accent on Australian TV so grating and obnoxious? Normal Australians don’t have such an affected accent. Is it like the Australian version of British RP?


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26404015 - 12/28/19 03:01 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It's the Queens English....with a twang.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26404016 - 12/28/19 03:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Also sky is not seen by many but those who want to know what they are going to get....reinforcement.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: koods]
    #26404017 - 12/28/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Their worst nightmare is to behave like an ABC journalist (well spoken) as they'd miss their bogan audience demographic.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: pineninja]
    #26404018 - 12/28/19 03:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Also sky is not seen by many but those who want to know what they are going to get....reinforcement.




:awesomenod:


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26404386 - 12/28/19 09:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26408723 - 12/31/19 02:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal]
    #26410047 - 12/31/19 10:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The bushfires are out of control.  A town has been razed (or more).

It seems that no matter how we try to save the environment, the environment turns on us because of what we did to the environment.

Auustralia is importing fire fighters from other countries...

On the flip side, many dangerous spiders have been burnt.  So there's that...




They'll be fine


--------------------
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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Australia is burning down... [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #26410575 - 01/01/20 08:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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