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Invisibleopenmind
curious
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day
    #26401870 - 12/26/19 04:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

https://mjbizdaily.com/california-marijuana-taxes-will-increase-new-years-day/

After having avoided an increase in state taxes on legal marijuana, California officials changed course Thursday and announced MJ excise and cultivation taxes will go up effective Jan. 1.

High state and local tax rates have been an industry problem that have made legal businesses less competitive with the illicit market: Unlicensed retailers can lure customers with lower prices, since rogue shops don’t pay any taxes.

In announcing the move, the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) – which must recalculate the wholesale cannabis markup rate every six months – revealed that the markup rate for the marijuana excise tax will increase from 60% to 80% on New Year’s Day.

The markup rate is used to provide the basis for California’s 15% excise tax.

The increase will also raise the state cultivation tax to adjust for inflation, raising those taxes as well:
$9.65 from $9.25 for an ounce of flower, or an increase of 4.3%.
$2.87 from $2.75 for an ounce of leaves, or an increase of 4.3%.
$1.35 from $1.29 for an ounce of fresh marijuana plant material, or an increase of 4.6%.
The CDTFA’s markup rate is based on the wholesale average market price of cannabis, and the agency had previously declined to increase the state marijuana tax rate.

The agency statement said the markup rate change was based on “an analysis of statewide market data,” and a CDTFA spokesman wrote in an email to Marijuana Business Daily that the tax adjustments are a result of existing state law.

“When implementing (Proposition 64), the Legislature moved the incidence of the tax from the retailer to the distributor, requiring CDTFA to determine the average markup rate every six months,” CDTFA spokesman Casey Wells wrote.

“The purpose of the markup is to have the actual tax match the 15% gross receipts rate approved by voters. After analyzing thousands of transactions in the state’s Track and Trace system, CDTFA analysts have determined that the required markup rate for the period beginning January 1, 2020, is 80%.”

When asked if the excise markup rate will change again in another six months, Wells said that will depend on wholesale market data. But the cultivation tax, since it’s based on inflation, would only be adjusted once a year, he said.

To date, legislative efforts to lower state taxes have fallen short, meaning the legal supply chain has continued to struggle to attract customers.

Nicole Elliott, senior advisor on cannabis in Gov. Gavin Newsom’s Office of Business and Economic Development, emphasized that the tax hike “is not a discretionary action” by CDTFA, but rather a natural outcome of laws established in 2017 by the legislature.

“We support policies that lead to less cash flow issues for small businesses, establish more parity across the industry, simplify compliance for everyone involved and support a healthy legal market,” Elliott wrote in an email to MJBizDaily.

“We remain committed to working with stakeholders and the Legislature to further develop a framework that realizes all these things.”

Industry insiders, however, immediately criticized the move, as did Oakland Democrat Rob Bonta, a state assembly member who has twice tried – but failed – to lower MJ taxes through the legislature.

In an emailed statement, Bonta called the tax hike “deeply concerning.”

“This short-sighted move ignores the realities that licensed businesses are at the breaking point, with many struggling to survive,” Bonta wrote, and reiterated his support for at least temporarily lowering state cannabis taxes.

The California Cannabis Industry Association (CCIA) said the increase left its members “stunned and outraged.”

“As California’s regulated market spirals towards collapse from taxes on cannabis consumers … we believe that the CDTFA’s decision to increase tax burdens on compliant cannabis operators is counter to developing a safe industry,” according to the association’s statement.

“Widening the price disparity gap between illicit and regulated products will further drive consumers to the illicit market at a time when illicit products are demonstrably putting people’s lives at risk.”

Other industry insiders agreed.

“At the very least, this is tone deaf, given what the legal industry is going through right now and the lack of control of the illicit market,” said Adam Spiker, the executive director of the Southern California Coalition, a Los Angeles-based cannabis trade group.

A report on cannabis taxes, expected in December from the Legislative Analyst’s Office (LAO), has been highly anticipated by industry insiders who hope it will give them political ammunition to support lowering statewide marijuana tax rates.

Bonta cited that upcoming report in his emailed statement, and said the state would be “wise to consider the findings (of the LAO)… before unilaterally moving to create an even heavier tax burden” for the legal cannabis trade.

https://mjbizdaily.com/california-marijuana-taxes-will-increase-new-years-day/







:facepalm:

.


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: openmind]
    #26402236 - 12/26/19 10:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

They were going to increase it by 60% but now it's 80%.

Hell with it.  Should be a cottage industry anyways.  If people growing in their closets is working so well, I say it's a good thing.  Tricky legally though because it's unregulated and untaxed, and that's a real thing.

But can you argue with the results?  The illicit marijuana industry has been satisfying demand with few serious complaints for quite a long time.  And the nature of it has given franchise to anybody who has a closet. 

This has helped handicap people, unemployable people, students, and all those dispossessed classes have a way to get some means of production.  And also enables criminal gangs.  I like the first part and would like to see a solution that preserves it and eliminates the second.


I don't know what legalization is going to lead to.  Here in Canada the legal market is having a terrible time competing with the cottage industry one.  Expected earnings have been slashed.  I read that Quebec may lower the price to $5 a gram retail in an effort to kill the black market.


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Offlineprettyhatemachine
Stranger

Registered: 06/24/19
Posts: 71
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26402413 - 12/27/19 02:33 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Is the Canadian cannabis industry government run?


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InvisibleAmanita86
OTD Keymaster
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Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26402437 - 12/27/19 03:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Oh hey more taxes, imagine that.  Simply amazing how that works.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: openmind]
    #26402657 - 12/27/19 08:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
https://mjbizdaily.com/california-marijuana-taxes-will-increase-new-years-day/

After having avoided an increase in state taxes on legal marijuana, California officials changed course Thursday and announced MJ excise and cultivation taxes will go up effective Jan. 1.

High state and local tax rates have been an industry problem that have made legal businesses less competitive with the illicit market: Unlicensed retailers can lure customers with lower prices, since rogue shops don’t pay any taxes.

In announcing the move, the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) – which must recalculate the wholesale cannabis markup rate every six months – revealed that the markup rate for the marijuana excise tax will increase from 60% to 80% on New Year’s Day.

The markup rate is used to provide the basis for California’s 15% excise tax.

The increase will also raise the state cultivation tax to adjust for inflation, raising those taxes as well:
$9.65 from $9.25 for an ounce of flower, or an increase of 4.3%.
$2.87 from $2.75 for an ounce of leaves, or an increase of 4.3%.
$1.35 from $1.29 for an ounce of fresh marijuana plant material, or an increase of 4.6%.
The CDTFA’s markup rate is based on the wholesale average market price of cannabis, and the agency had previously declined to increase the state marijuana tax rate.

The agency statement said the markup rate change was based on “an analysis of statewide market data,” and a CDTFA spokesman wrote in an email to Marijuana Business Daily that the tax adjustments are a result of existing state law.

“When implementing (Proposition 64), the Legislature moved the incidence of the tax from the retailer to the distributor, requiring CDTFA to determine the average markup rate every six months,” CDTFA spokesman Casey Wells wrote.

“The purpose of the markup is to have the actual tax match the 15% gross receipts rate approved by voters. After analyzing thousands of transactions in the state’s Track and Trace system, CDTFA analysts have determined that the required markup rate for the period beginning January 1, 2020, is 80%.”

When asked if the excise markup rate will change again in another six months, Wells said that will depend on wholesale market data. But the cultivation tax, since it’s based on inflation, would only be adjusted once a year, he said.

To date, legislative efforts to lower state taxes have fallen short, meaning the legal supply chain has continued to struggle to attract customers.

Nicole Elliott, senior advisor on cannabis in Gov. Gavin Newsom’s Office of Business and Economic Development, emphasized that the tax hike “is not a discretionary action” by CDTFA, but rather a natural outcome of laws established in 2017 by the legislature.

“We support policies that lead to less cash flow issues for small businesses, establish more parity across the industry, simplify compliance for everyone involved and support a healthy legal market,” Elliott wrote in an email to MJBizDaily.

“We remain committed to working with stakeholders and the Legislature to further develop a framework that realizes all these things.”

Industry insiders, however, immediately criticized the move, as did Oakland Democrat Rob Bonta, a state assembly member who has twice tried – but failed – to lower MJ taxes through the legislature.

In an emailed statement, Bonta called the tax hike “deeply concerning.”

“This short-sighted move ignores the realities that licensed businesses are at the breaking point, with many struggling to survive,” Bonta wrote, and reiterated his support for at least temporarily lowering state cannabis taxes.

The California Cannabis Industry Association (CCIA) said the increase left its members “stunned and outraged.”

“As California’s regulated market spirals towards collapse from taxes on cannabis consumers … we believe that the CDTFA’s decision to increase tax burdens on compliant cannabis operators is counter to developing a safe industry,” according to the association’s statement.

“Widening the price disparity gap between illicit and regulated products will further drive consumers to the illicit market at a time when illicit products are demonstrably putting people’s lives at risk.”

Other industry insiders agreed.

“At the very least, this is tone deaf, given what the legal industry is going through right now and the lack of control of the illicit market,” said Adam Spiker, the executive director of the Southern California Coalition, a Los Angeles-based cannabis trade group.

A report on cannabis taxes, expected in December from the Legislative Analyst’s Office (LAO), has been highly anticipated by industry insiders who hope it will give them political ammunition to support lowering statewide marijuana tax rates.

Bonta cited that upcoming report in his emailed statement, and said the state would be “wise to consider the findings (of the LAO)… before unilaterally moving to create an even heavier tax burden” for the legal cannabis trade.

https://mjbizdaily.com/california-marijuana-taxes-will-increase-new-years-day/







:facepalm:

.





That's insane.  Most non-backed small farmers in SoHum are already struggling if not on the brink of failure and losing everything they have (including their homes and properties.)  I know lots of these people as I'm a contractor who works all over the south county.  Our crew used to have a two year waiting list, and now we sometimes struggle through months because almost EVERYONE is totally tied up with all the fees and taxes.

This will literally destroy what was already barely hanging on.


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OfflineJohnRainy
Stranger

Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: prettyhatemachine]
    #26402941 - 12/27/19 11:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

prettyhatemachine said:
Is the Canadian cannabis industry government run?




No.


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InvisibleAmanita86
OTD Keymaster
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave] * 1
    #26403049 - 12/27/19 01:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Back to black market..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Amanita86]
    #26403219 - 12/27/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Back to black market..





unregulated market wholesale prices supposedly went up this year.  don't know exact prices, but people are talking $200-300 more per pound than the last few years.  one of my friends sold most of his pounds last year for $500 per, and that was considered average to good.



the last year i grew we were still fetching $1100/pound.  to me, that was no longer worth it (granted i put 500+ hours per summer into ~50 plants, not including working up the raised beds in the spring or harvest and post-harvest in the fall.  i was coming in at about $20 hour and killing myself.  if i had trimmed my own, the wage would've been better, but i was a horribly slow trimmer.


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OfflineJohnRainy
Stranger

Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26403253 - 12/27/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26403445 - 12/27/19 06:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.





not like indoor or dep, but still damn good and crystally, all organic outdoor.


you guys must not understand how many millions of pounds used to come out of southern humboldt alone before legalization ran a huge chunk of people out of business.  and that is wholesale price.  people who have solid/old connections are still fetching somewhat decent prices.

even dep prices dropped considerably, from what i've heard.  last year dep wholesale was $800-1200 depending on when in the season it sold.


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Offlinesk8fast
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Registered: 08/02/10
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26406017 - 12/29/19 09:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:
$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.



I was thinking the same thing $9.65 for an oz is crazy cheap I wouldnt care even if the tax was 90% at those prices it's as cheap as alcohol. I pay 150 an oz now


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: sk8fast]
    #26406065 - 12/29/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sk8fast said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.



I was thinking the same thing $9.65 for an oz is crazy cheap I wouldnt care even if the tax was 90% at those prices it's as cheap as alcohol. I pay 150 an oz now





it's not $9.65/oz.  and this is unregulated (black market) wholesale, not going to a dispensary.


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Offlineprettyhatemachine
Stranger

Registered: 06/24/19
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Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26406615 - 12/29/19 04:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It’s for the greater good, roads and bridges and shit :lol:


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OfflineCrispy224
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: prettyhatemachine]
    #26406642 - 12/29/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It would be interesting knowing the cannabis taxes compared to alcohol. I would imagine alcohol causes much more health problems to uninsured individuals.


--------------------
Matsesherbs.com is a SCAM site. Do not send them any money!!!!


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: prettyhatemachine]
    #26407411 - 12/30/19 08:07 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

prettyhatemachine said:
It’s for the greater good, roads and bridges and shit :lol:






They passed a road tax a year or two ago in Humboldt.  It was passed specifically for the purpose of fixing all the insanely damaged roads we have (seriously, you guys have no idea).  Somehow, the board of supervisors re-purposed that money and almost no roads have been fixed aside from the emergency funded jobs of late.

Then they passed a Measure (tax) to fund the VFD's and other local/volunteer emergency organizations (Tech Rescue, also a volunteer group, included.)  They handed out ONE round of funding then put the rest of the money elsewhere.


So, no, none of that tax money is going to anything productive, and lots of it ends up in Rex Bohn's or his friends'/cronies' hands.  Humboldt County is more corrupt than NYC.


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave] * 2
    #26407469 - 12/30/19 08:48 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Fuck taxes and fuck the government. Weed needs to be freed not regulated. I’ll never pay taxes for weed...


--------------------
How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: SFS96] * 1
    #26407473 - 12/30/19 08:50 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Taxes, aka cartel extortion..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: SFS96]
    #26407483 - 12/30/19 09:02 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

SFS96 said:
Fuck taxes and fuck the government. Weed needs to be freed not regulated. I’ll never pay taxes for weed...





:highfive:


that's why i work trade doing my buddy's firewood for a half or whole pound of smoke every year.  Currently he has 3-4 years of firewood from what we did last year, and i have (erm, had) a 1.5 year supply of buds.  :grin::bigweed::joint:


Edited by Tulipslave (12/30/19 09:02 AM)


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave] * 1
    #26407506 - 12/30/19 09:24 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Not a bad trade:rockon: I plan to keep my people supplied with tax free weed, my friends used to go to Colorado every couple of months until I started to get them bud that’s just as good and cheep without getting fucked by taxes.


--------------------
How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood


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Offlineviraldrome
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26407554 - 12/30/19 10:06 AM (4 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

JohnRainy said:

This has helped handicap people, unemployable people, students, and all those dispossessed classes have a way to get some means of production.  And also enables criminal gangs.  I like the first part and would like to see a solution that preserves it and eliminates the second.


I don't know what legalization is going to lead to.  Here in Canada the legal market is having a terrible time competing with the cottage industry one.  Expected earnings have been slashed.  I read that Quebec may lower the price to $5 a gram retail in an effort to kill the black market.




They can charge a dollar a gram I won't smoke legal Canadian weed. I'm poor but my building prohibits growing. I smoke 100 percent illegal weed though. 

The thing that suffers worst under a high tax regime is quality, the people pulling early because a 10 week sativa is going to be too expensive. High taxes ruin what makes weed great. No one seems to care about craft buds they just want cheap.


--------------------
Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD


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Offlinesk8fast
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26408546 - 12/30/19 10:21 PM (4 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

sk8fast said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.



I was thinking the same thing $9.65 for an oz is crazy cheap I wouldnt care even if the tax was 90% at those prices it's as cheap as alcohol. I pay 150 an oz now





it's not $9.65/oz.  and this is unregulated (black market) wholesale, not going to a dispensary.



The article said a raise from $9.25 to $9.65/oz, if that's the tax on top of the price of an Oz that's insane over a dollar a gram in tax


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: sk8fast]
    #26408580 - 12/30/19 10:56 PM (4 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

sk8fast said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

sk8fast said:
Quote:

JohnRainy said:
$500 a pound?  What kind of quality is that?  That's barely over $1/gram

Geez that is cheap.

Well, at least there will be a lot more people smoking grass now.  Awash in a flood of cheaper and cheaper pot.



I was thinking the same thing $9.65 for an oz is crazy cheap I wouldnt care even if the tax was 90% at those prices it's as cheap as alcohol. I pay 150 an oz now





it's not $9.65/oz.  and this is unregulated (black market) wholesale, not going to a dispensary.



The article said a raise from $9.25 to $9.65/oz, if that's the tax on top of the price of an Oz that's insane over a dollar a gram in tax






i'm with you now


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26409430 - 12/31/19 02:08 PM (4 years, 29 days ago)

Where are you seeing $500 a pound,  I just read an article about the cannabis industry in the U.S. and it quoted $1000.00-$1400.00 a pound as the going rate dispensaries are paying.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Doc9151]
    #26409629 - 12/31/19 05:01 PM (4 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Where are you seeing $500 a pound,  I just read an article about the cannabis industry in the U.S. and it quoted $1000.00-$1400.00 a pound as the going rate dispensaries are paying.






Humboldt/Mendocino counties


wholesale, unregulated market (black market)


like i said, that was last year.  supposedly prices are up this year.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26409906 - 12/31/19 08:33 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Is it Brick weed? That seems super cheap, even by PNW standards.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,111
Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Doc9151]
    #26409959 - 12/31/19 09:17 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Is it Brick weed? That seems super cheap, even by PNW standards.






no.  i already clarified quality.

i'm not talking about buying through dispensaries.  i'm talking about wholesale price on the unregulated market, direct from the grower(s).

for people that don't have connections, they have to sell wholesale to buyers who come through and pick up 100-1000 pounds at a time.  those are where the low prices come in. 

it's a very different world.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26409976 - 12/31/19 09:33 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

No I understand it is black market,  just surprised is all


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Doc9151]
    #26410038 - 12/31/19 10:07 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
No I understand it is black market,  just surprised is all





in 2010 prices were still 1600-2000/lb depending.  in 2012, prices were 1400-1800/lb.  in 2016, prices were already down to 1000-1300/lb.


growers gave all the leverage to buyers, and buyers kept lowering the prices.  for whatever reason, the growers kept allowing it.

it was pretty fucked up, and i'm so glad i got out when i did, cause none of it followed basic rules of economics.


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave] * 1
    #26410042 - 12/31/19 10:10 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

It’s fucking annoying. Tax the hell out of it!


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Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26410048 - 12/31/19 10:11 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Doc9151 said:
No I understand it is black market,  just surprised is all





in 2010 prices were still 1600-2000/lb depending.  in 2012, prices were 1400-1800/lb.  in 2016, prices were already down to 1000-1300/lb.


growers gave all the leverage to buyers, and buyers kept lowering the prices.  for whatever reason, the growers kept allowing it.

it was pretty fucked up, and i'm so glad i got out when i did, cause none of it followed basic rules of economics.




Two pound fourteen hundred. So much of it. Your buying egos.


--------------------
Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: openmind]
    #26410067 - 12/31/19 10:20 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Incredibly stupid to raise taxes right now specifically. Almost like they're trying to run the new business into the ground so they can call it a failure and shut it down. This is just immensely stupid right now.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: nooneman]
    #26410085 - 12/31/19 10:29 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Incredibly stupid to raise taxes right now specifically. Almost like they're trying to run the new business into the ground so they can call it a failure and shut it down. This is just immensely stupid right now.





hum co board of supes is basically trying to kill the small farmer.  recall estelle fennell and kill rex bohn/virginia bass!


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26410159 - 12/31/19 11:05 PM (4 years, 28 days ago)

Ain’t no surprise.

People pay for those taxes become law. Whose paying?  The people making more money than others and don’t mind pinching off the scrappers.


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Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: WhoManBeing] * 1
    #26456638 - 01/28/20 11:03 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

As California re-focuses their law enforcement efforts on black market cannabis sales(and in doing so continues/expands the failed war on drugs tactics that legal cannabis was supposed to stop)...they raise taxes pushing more producers and consumers to participate in said black market.

Makes no sense, now(even if indirectly) any new revenues created by raising taxes will just be wasted funding said law enforcement actions...creating a never ending circle that will only lead to less participation in the legal market, less revenues, and endlessly persecuting users/producers of cannabis as if they were violent criminals for what amounts to the white collar crime of tax evasion. Tax evasion that is incentivized by overburdenous taxes and regulation in the first place.

I wholeheatedly agree with raising revenue through smart taxation on the cannabis industry, preferably by taxing the largest producers of cannabis(not consumers, small businesses, end level distributors)...but, if California really wanted to reduce black market cannabis sales they should be lowering taxes and making it easier/more affordable to participate in the legal cannabis industry; not ramping up police efforts, certainly not the same failed militarized, oppressive, persecutory tactics of the past.

Quote:

Incredibly stupid to raise taxes right now specifically. Almost like they're trying to run the new business into the ground so they can call it a failure and shut it down. This is just immensely stupid right now.




This may not be far from the truth...conservatives have been purposefully sabotaging our government from within since the 80s(I recommend reading The Wrecking Crew by Frank Thomas if more interested in this topic)...they run on the platform of incompetent government, and then create policy to make it true...while trying to bankrupt us at every level in order to force policy makers to take the unpopular actions of cutting social programs and under-funding regulatory agencies.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were purposefully sabatoging legal cannabis so they can tell voters "See, legal cannabis doesn't work" and ensuring a black market still exists to allow lobbyists representing the Prison-Industrial Complex and Police Industrial Complex to continue crafting policy and exerting influence which will guarantee the War on Drugs never ends and continue the further militarization of our Police force...so they can continue to profit by contorting our own democracy against us and treat us like an occupied nation.


Edited by Holybullshit (01/28/20 11:20 AM)


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26458199 - 01/29/20 08:58 AM (4 years, 10 hours ago)

Shit, how many people died in the USA (yes some were in legal states, including CA) because the illicit market has cheaper products and they opted to buy a THC cart from the shady street dealer or the illegal dispensary in the shitty part of town...

And they're gonna raise taxes?

Get this fucking one - this is how Ontario, Canada is gonna allow the producers (growers) of marijuana to sell their own marijuana back to customers (at their growing locations). A brewery simply brews the beer, bottles it, fridges it, and sells it..





So are governments inept at selling weed, or are they intentionally trying to fuck this up? They are such bad weed dealers.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26458232 - 01/29/20 09:18 AM (4 years, 10 hours ago)

I guess you missed the recent news about the medical marijuana dispensary in Michigan that was caught selling cartridges tainted with vitamin e just like the ones sold illegally.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: California marijuana taxes will increase New Year’s Day [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26458838 - 01/29/20 05:36 PM (4 years, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
I guess you missed the recent news about the medical marijuana dispensary in Michigan that was caught selling cartridges tainted with vitamin e just like the ones sold illegally.




Without knowing exactly how Michigan's quality control regulations work, I am going to guess those carts never went through the proper procedures and may have even never had excise taxes paid on them...and Michigans system lends itself to such happenings as all taxes and most regulation are basically at the consumer level...there is little oversight of producers and no real enforcement policy preventing dispensaries from sourcing black market goods and selling them in their shop. Perhaps I am wrong, but if not it is still a black market product whether it was sold be a licensed retailer or not...and if it wasn't, thats a failure of Michigans regulatory system, not an innate flaw of legal cannabis. And given the competitive disadvantage legal dispensaries are forced into, its no wonder they turn to shady business practices in an effort to keep up.

Just because Michigan has an incomplete and flawed system doesn't mean products found in dispensaries aren't safe elsewhere...places where the problem is taxes and near punitive regulation makes it impossible for legitimate and safe cannabis retailers from matching black market prices.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/marijuana/opt-outs-high-prices-keep-conditions-strong-marijuana-black-market

Quote:

The shortage of welcoming communities and questionable regulatory measures coupled with the fact that the Michigan Marijuana Regulatory Agency didn't license growers first has already led to a shortage of product.

That shortage has driven up prices for marijuana — as high as $480 per ounce for high-end medical marijuana in Michigan, compared with just $300 per ounce for the same product on the illegal market.




Edited by Holybullshit (01/29/20 06:16 PM)


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