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OfflineStem
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Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB)
    #26394200 - 12/21/19 03:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hello, I have absolutely no experience so please help me out. I found this Ayahuasca recipe:

https://erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca_info9.shtml

In step 5 it says to reduce the brew but it doesn't explain how exactly. So for example, if I use 500 g of caapi and do the 3 x 3 method after which I'm left with, say, 1.5 liters of brew. Should this be reduced to 500 ml? Also, when reducing, can I boil or I should use medium heat? Same question when reducing mimosa hostilis, boil or medium heat?

Another question about the dosage. If I'm preparing a brew for 5 people, does the mimosa hostilis dose need to be multiplied by 5 which would equal 60 g and then reduced to 500 ml if dose per person is 100 ml?


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Stem] * 2
    #26394443 - 12/21/19 05:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You should not be experimenting on 5 people, that's irresponsible. Who the hell is going to hold the party together when shit gets crazy? Because it will. DMT is no joke. If you want to do it, do it solo. Get a sober person to sit you first time. Seriously.

What you are thinking is probably a mistake. Aya is not just bushman whiskey and you're not a shaman, I don't even know why you would consider making a drug combo and dosing your people with it when you have no experience. Stop a moment to consider what could go wrong.


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Stem] * 2
    #26394694 - 12/21/19 09:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

OP you better be really fucking careful using MHRB as your DMT source-- that shit can be extremely strong with caapi-- even at 5g-- and you're thinking 12g?

No!

You're making a bad decision.

And you're using WAY too much caapi if you've never tested it-- 100g each is a VERY strong dose with some vine. Too strong for most.

And I agree-- one person should try it alone before ending up on the evening news under arrest from a house full of freaked out panic-stricken lunatics running into the neighborhood puking on everything.

You're playing with some serious shit--


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Edited by coAsTal (12/21/19 09:50 PM)


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: coAsTal]
    #26394815 - 12/21/19 11:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There is some danger, but I think the tone of the last two posts is a little too critical. OP came for information before proceeding, so they're showing some responsibility. First-time Aya is hardly any different than first-time shrooms or LSD if everyone's cleared for potential MAOI conflictions. Ex: It could be bunk, it could be triple-dipped fluffy diamonds. The administrator should have some experience with it so they know what they're giving out.

The issue is plants are not equal in potency, depending on their age, cultivar, time of harvest, preparation, etc. There's no one recipe that is going to work for everyone because the ingredients are not consistent every time. There's yellow, red, black, white varieties of Caapi with different potency. And people's personal metabolisms can be more or less sensitive to Aya. 12g MHRB might be too much for some, not enough for others. When brewing, I would prepare enough for everyone to have a high dose, but start out with just drinking 1/4 of that intended amount. Then every 20 minutes or so take another 1/4 until each person is at their personal comfort level.

I've given out capsuled Aya before once I figured out a working dose and made sure to check everyone with the MAOI. It was one of the best nights I've ever had and elevated Aya to one of my favorite substances. Yes, be safe, but don't miss out on the fun! Fr though brews are so hit-and-miss, you're more likely to have nothing happen or puke from too much of something.


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Icon] * 2
    #26394933 - 12/22/19 03:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Nonsense that 12g of MHRB prepared correctly wouldn't be enough for anyone. That's between 120-240mg of DMT depending on the plant. Earth shattering dose when mixed with an heavy dose of harmalas like in the above recipe, even if they are mild plants. It'd push most people into oblivion and beyond. A heavy plant with that dose could leave people with long term psychological issues and possibly even PTSD.

Don't water down what a naive request it is Icon. OP clearly needs to learn a lot more before embarking on his journey, certainly before involving others in a half baked folly.


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Northerner]
    #26394962 - 12/22/19 03:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If your intention is safety, then why not simply suggest that OP try 8g or 6g of MHRB instead? A high dose of any psychedelic is trouble, I think that's why OP asked in the first place. You don't need to act like Aya is some forbidden, extra dangerous territory. OP is going to do what they want anyway, dropping some experience or knowledge on the topic is the best thing you can do.

120mg DMT fumarate is my standard dose and the dose I give to everyone else. And I've doubled that before when 120 wasn't getting me there on a full stomach. The earth is still un-shattered, I didn't enter oblivion, no PTSD. I had a great time with no notable negatives. You really need to chill, bro. Have you even done Ayahuasca? As with any enduring psychedelic experience, you start low with your dose and work your way up; because there's no telling how much that 12g mhrb has, or that 5g dried shrooms, foot of cacti, or that tiny square tab. It's the same concept, same risks.


Edited by Icon (12/22/19 04:10 AM)


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Icon] * 1
    #26394979 - 12/22/19 04:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Eat 150-200mg of freebase then with 200mg of harmalas, come back and tell us how it didn't fuck you up and how you wish you'd given it to four friends.  :smirk:

I've done a lot of DMT from plants I have grown, I am no stranger. Fumarate orally isn't as strong as naturally occurring nn-DMT, just like freebase is far stronger. You know this. Cooking brews is not the same as precise dosing extracts either. You also know this.

I didn't give dosage advice because I wasn't inclined to. I only said OP shouldn't fuck his friends up, I did not suggest that he shouldn't do it to himself. In fact I suggested he should learn more and do it to himself first.

Anyhow, have fun on your journey.


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Northerner]
    #26394997 - 12/22/19 05:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I second the idea that you should brew up a sample dose for yourself, you will get practice doing it, and be able to gauge how strong your bark and vine is.

I want you and your friends to trip, I promise, but.... I hesitate to do anything other than offer helpful questions, because, the very first words in your post are “I have no idea what I am doing”

But you want to dose 5 people who trust you? Are they aware that cooking and basic math aren’t your strongest skills?

How long have you been researching? I’m just curious because it seems to be a hastily thrown together plan.

Have you or anyone else in the group had a psychedelic experience before? This could become interesting if no one has before.

Are you thinking of the rest of the experience besides the drugs?  Puke buckets, easy access to bathrooms, comfy blankets, water to drink and maybe a playlist?

Try not to think anyone is trying to kill the vibe. It’s just that people always post up wanting to know how many grams of lsd they should smoke with their depressed grandma. Or some other less than well thought out plan.

I post this just to get you thinking about stuff other than the actual recipe. If you need math or cooking answers..... you can find those on google. You came to the Shroomery... you are going to get an opinion. 😊

My answer is obviously going to be “smoke all the grams of lsd maaaaan !” 😎😝👍


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Northerner]
    #26395013 - 12/22/19 06:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Eat 150-200mg of freebase then with 200mg of harmalas, come back and tell us how it didn't fuck you up and how you wish you'd given it to four friends.  :smirk:

I've done a lot of DMT from plants I have grown, I am no stranger. Fumarate orally isn't as strong as naturally occurring nn-DMT, just like freebase is far stronger. You know this. Cooking brews is not the same as precise dosing extracts either. You also know this.




That's literally what I did. 240mg fumarate = 175mg freebase. Didn't feel physiologically intoxicating or psychologically dangerous. And I did wish that my friend who also didn't feel anything from 120mg that day had stayed for the re-up.

What do you mean now about fumarate orally not being as strong as naturally occurring nn-dmt? And that freebase is far stronger? I don't understand what you mean here, plants store DMT in DMT-Tannate form; if you mean jungle spice or something I'm not even going to go there. It's all nn-DMT past the blood-brain barrier, salts just deliver it more efficiently. Ever wonder why people don't shoot or snort or eat freebase? It's alchemically retarded.


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Icon]
    #26395046 - 12/22/19 06:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Inhibition levels were probably too low and it got metabolised, I'd bet money on it. Maybe you like being far out there too. There's plenty of hyperslapped people who used to do that sort of thing. Not many who keep doing it for long before they hit rough water. Each to their own though.
Freebase is very basic and damaging to human cells on contact so not good to touch, but contains more nn by weight as it is not bonded with a salt. Converts very quickly in stomach acid though.

Anyhow, we digress.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Icon]
    #26395048 - 12/22/19 06:44 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Every person reacts differently to oral dmt.
Some don't feel anything from 100mg, others get blasted to space and beyond from 50mg.

You can brew it all, like 12g per person, but then start low and drink only a quarter, then redose 20min later. That's the way to go, like other already said.

I have a full blast with 40mg already. For me it's like 1g of bark equals 1 to 1.5g of dried shrooms. 5g bark, or 80mg of dmt, feel like half an ounce of shrooms to me.
12g of bark (that's 150mg of dmt) would be like eating an ounce of dried shrooms. That's like four to six times a high dose. For me. :strokebeard:

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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Northerner]
    #26395051 - 12/22/19 06:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Inhibition levels were probably too low and it got metabolised, I'd bet money on it. Maybe you like being far out there too. There's plenty of hyperslapped people who used to do that sort of thing. Not many who keep doing it for long before they hit rough water. Each to their own though.
Freebase is very basic and damaging to human cells on contact so not good to touch, but contains more nn by weight as it is not bonded with a salt. Converts very quickly in stomach acid though.

Anyhow, we digress.



Lol "freebase damages human cells on contact, but it's cool, just let it burn your mouth and esophagus before it gets to your stomach." And you're worried about OP harming people? Ahh, but freebase is more potent because it's more freebase by weight than the salt... wow, groundbreaking stuff here. :takingnotes:

Anyway, I took 200mg harmalas with each 120mg fumarate dose. It's possible I wasn't fully inhibited off the first 200, because it only felt like a shroom microdose before doubling up. And in the end that probably was my strongest psychedelic experience ever. I've shared that 200+120 dose with about a dozen people too, some that had never heard of Ayahuasca 10 minutes beforehand. Intensity is all relative. But no one has had to go to the hospital or endangered themselves. With pharma we don't even purge.


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26395074 - 12/22/19 07:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just put it in a capsule. Duh.

I wouldn't say 120mg fumarate is excessive, I've dosed friends with similar amounts. Chill out man. I don't agree with the OPs idea and think he should learn more, you disagree. Yay. Leave it already.

Feevers effects are a fairly typical response from everyone I've known, give or take a little.

Of course some people must be hard headed against it like other psychedelics too. Never really thought about those poor souls much.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Stem] * 3
    #26395109 - 12/22/19 07:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

This may provide some guidance.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26216646#26216646

I would also strongly encourage you read this, which is likely the BEST instructions and advice on Ayahuasca to be found anywhere:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8972

I'm sorry, but given the untested potential of the plant material you are seeking to employ OP, I have to side with those advising caution.  Ayahuasca is certainly NOT a brew to dispense to multiple Ayahuasca-naive people under the circumstances you cite - bark and vine of unknown potency, a first-time brewer and no experienced guide??

Those of us familiar with the resultant overwhelming, ugly experiences from improperly, accidentally or mistakenly brewed plant matter of unknown power are RIGHT to urge caution.

:2cents:


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Stem]
    #26395112 - 12/22/19 07:58 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Stem said:
Hello, I have absolutely no experience so please help me out. I found this Ayahuasca recipe:

https://erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca_info9.shtml

In step 5 it says to reduce the brew but it doesn't explain how exactly. So for example, if I use 500 g of caapi and do the 3 x 3 method after which I'm left with, say, 1.5 liters of brew. Should this be reduced to 500 ml? Also, when reducing, can I boil or I should use medium heat? Same question when reducing mimosa hostilis, boil or medium heat?

Another question about the dosage. If I'm preparing a brew for 5 people, does the mimosa hostilis dose need to be multiplied by 5 which would equal 60 g and then reduced to 500 ml if dose per person is 100 ml?




Just eat a handful of shrooms instead. No reducing or math, no distracting arguments.

Imagine if you had posted a thread titled “how much shrooms should me and my homies eat?”
You would get typical responses like “post a pic to ID” or “eat all of the shrooms!!!”

I just think it would be way easier on everyone to sell the mimosa bark and buy some mycology supplies with the cash.

:smile:


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26395220 - 12/22/19 09:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If you want a consistent dosage, go for Rue and Mimosa, use 3 to 4.5 grams of Rue, and 3 to 5 grams of Mimosa, 5 grams of Mimosa for a good experience, do NOT exceed 8 grams of good quality Mimosa root (especially of powdered root), Mimosa is very potent and especially with proper MAO-A inhibition and timing (30 minutes to an hour after the Rue), the DMT will be fully active and STRONG. Do not underestimate the potency of Mimosa. Using Caapi may be "traditional" but Caapi is variable in potency, Rue is a much more consistent and reliable and potent and cheaper choice for Harmala content, or using extracted Harmalas with a mg scale for accurate dosing.

Alternatively, there's Psilohuasca, mixing like 2/2.5 to 4.5 grams of Rue with say 2 to 3.5 grams of mushrooms or 20 to 35mgs of 4-ACO-DMT. It's very similar to Aya with oral DMT, just gentler and longer in duration. My last Psilohuasca experience using 2.5 grams of Rue seed powder encapsulated followed 30 minutes later with 35mgs of 4-ACO-DMT and 4 grams of Lemon Balm tea was the best Psilohuasca experience i've had to date, full on immersive and ecstatic experience, talking in tongues, the works. It was amazing! I highly recommend checking out Psilohuasca, especially for beginners to the Huasca realms.


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26395229 - 12/22/19 09:22 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Also worth noting, is that you really want to make sure that first and foremost you get the dosage of the Rue/Caapi/Harmalas right, and time the consumption of the DMT or even mushrooms/4-ACO-DMT properly. I recommend 30 minutes to an hour after the Rue to consume the DMT, some people have good luck dosing them together at the same time, but that adds to inconsistency and variable potency, as all in one teas are infamous for not working for people the first few times or so, so it's always better, imo/ime, to dose them separately and consume the DMT or mushrooms/4-ACO-DMT sometime after consuming the Rue to ensure gut MAO-A is fully and properly inhibited as to get consistent and accurate dosing of the Psychedelic component. Therefore it takes away the guess work and reduces the variability.

Psilohuasca on the other hand, not nearly as inconsistent as trying to properly orally activate the DMT, since Psilocin is already orally active, but for proper potentiation of the Psilocin, you do still want to consume it when gut MAO-A is fully and properly inhibited, so 30 minutes to an hour after the Rue is best, imo/ime.

This stuff takes a bit of work to get things right, so if you're wanting to give it to people, i definitely recommend the Psilohuasca, otherwise, experiment around with it on your own first, get things right, and then you can give it to people, just remember to go for a low or moderate dosage of the DMT or Psilocin, because higher dosages, especially of oral DMT, can be quite harrowing and potentially terrifying.

As a side note, i highly recommend Lemon Balm tea (3 to 4.5 grams of dried leaf made into a tea) to smooth out intense come ups and relax things a bit and ease the anxiety and panic. I've given Aya to some people without Lemon Balm, and they had a pretty rough time, i've given the same people and others Aya with Lemon Balm included, and they handled it far better, even those with little to no prior Psychedelic experience. If you're wary, and rightfully so, include the Lemon Balm as an admixture plant, trust me on this.


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OfflineStem
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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Sabnock]
    #26400156 - 12/25/19 07:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hi friends, all replies appreciated. I have now made my caapi brew using 340 g shredded caapi and reduced it to 500 ml. I think this makes good 4 doses.

Next I'm planning to use 160 g MHRB and reduce is to 1 liter which would make about 25 doses. I think I will succeed.


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Re: Ayahuasca brew recipe dosage help (caapi, MHRB) [Re: Stem] * 2
    #26400161 - 12/25/19 07:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

:facepalm:


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