Home | Community | Message Board

Magic Mushrooms Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26399080 - 12/24/19 12:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Like transitives and substantives, language divides becoming from being when both may be unified in a non-dualist idiom. But yeah, we all cubby-hole people at times if we're not careful. I do not converse with people in real-time over these things and avoid socializing with hylics since our communication can only remain at superficial levels.

The Psychichoi are the Christians/Jews/Muslims who have faith but who rarely become friends on a level bellow the superficial because they must constantly avoid the contradictions in their 'beliefs.' (Christian: 'Jesus was crucified.' - Muslim: 'Allah would not have allowed one of His prophets to hang upon a tree so Isa was NOT crucified.') For those committed 'believers' of different faiths who can be friends, they must avoid intellectual conversations or simply make a ground rule to agree to disagree. As I have written on this forum before, I have known 'believers' who were truly delusional, whose sacrificium intellectus was not proof of their devotion to holy scriptures but utter failures in their ability to hold faith and reason in balance. (The Sun is not the size of a basketball and stars cannot fall to earth, your interpretation needs to change). Religious relatives tend to avoid me (fundamentalist Christians do NOT like the Gothic or Eastern art in my home), and [fortunately] I am no longer proselytized to by the Orthodox Jews who live on my block since bringing a couple into my library.

As to the Pneumatichoi, this pertains to a level of enlightened intellectual and to a certain extent spiritual openness where the gnosis included knowing that intellectual, doctrinal, God-concepts is NOT the basis of Reality. Such individuals can only be aware of the myths and doctrines while Knowing that we cannot Know the Truth (Reality) intellectually. I do place myself in this category but it is not as pretentious as it seems. My unpublished book about sainthood also places this term within reach of many more people than the Catholic or Orthodox churches would ever allow. There are many people whose lives have been so altered by an Experience that they endeavor towards increasing their ability to be compassionate to humans, animals, insects and plant life as a result.

Given these parameters, there really are limited transitional situations except getting kinder or less kind. :shrug: It's a matter of praxis, these categories are fluid but slow-moving fluidity like window glass that gets thicker at the bottom after a very long time from downward flow of an "amorphous solid."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26400020 - 12/25/19 04:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

that can work for you but it is part of a private language, meant for a quest such as yours.
persoanlly, I don't want to classify people into us and them or other, I am at a raw place and it is changing continuously.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarius
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/15
Posts: 43
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26400138 - 12/25/19 07:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

So no matter how you slice it when you're high on DMT or acid or whatever you have a higher capacity for objectivity or subjectivity.

Muhammad was extremely objective and aspects of the religion he revealed were extremely objective. The only correlation that exists between Islam and DMT is an objective experience of reality, and as a goat farmer in 700ce who revealed the best book of poetry, law, philosophy, ethics, and reason by literally every metric I doubt he could've done it in the familiar realms of causality.

It's unlikely though that you'd accept this as truth, and the book written in 700CE also said you'd reject it 1400 years later.

quran.com/2/6


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarius
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/15
Posts: 43
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26400146 - 12/25/19 07:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
most likely hashish, or cannabis and opium - both were available and equally endowed especially if a person practices devoutly



Quote:

r00tcmplx said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
most likely hashish, or cannabis and opium - both were available and equally endowed especially if a person practices devoutly



Yeah, I will agree that there was likely some of this involved.
There's a long vein of substances of altered experience among the progressions/stories of religion dating back to animism/shamanism.

Obvious observation comes up in my mind: Indeed no particular person is special... There's tons of interesting stuff that comes from people on drugs and their experiences therein. Depending on the context and their mental aptitude going in, beautiful accounts/stories of important can come of it. Once a person has had one themselves, they can see the fingerprint in others who have.

The world is indeed 'flat' for the most part among humans.. Beyond concerted effort to cultivate your brain and cultivating experiences, there is no magic/mystery to the past. There are frontiers of it towards the future. Thus, its good to hold a little mystery/magic of the past in one's pocket... Gets the brain off on interesting thoughts of sorts thus why its such a time tested practice.




Why is it Muhammad's life is literally the most documented life ever through transmitted accounts by peasants, kings, and everything inbetween but for some reason literally never has he ever been reported to have taken drugs of any sort? Not to mention even at the height of Muhammads power it's well document he went for days without eating, starving, and slept in a mud house. Near his death, he even pawned a set of his armour to afford wheat. How could he possibly afford silk road hashish?

Honestly I think it's hilarious your retard monkey brain is in such lockdown mode in regards to your addiction to drugs you think you could possibly have come up with something like the Quran with nothing but the worthless drugs you take every day, and clearly not out of reason but probably out of a subconscious drive to protect your addiction which your personality is likely based around at this point.

The Quran was spoken, it was revealed primarily in the format of Muhammad answering questions, verses werent revealed in a specific sequence rather dozens of chapters would be being revealed at a time and the order in which you recite verses during prayer was according to these chapters. I invite you to write a book with nothing but your stank ass weed or cow turd caps like that, and not with a pen or paper either just memorize the entire thing.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26400543 - 12/25/19 02:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
that can work for you but it is part of a private language, meant for a quest such as yours.
persoanlly, I don't want to classify people into us and them or other, I am at a raw place and it is changing continuously.




Just FYI: My "quest" in Gnostic religion and its attendant pessimism was for me a Near Eastern transition from a Far Eastern philosophical stance I once had, but both were strict dualisms of spirit and matter. I also held a similar Neoplatonist world-view (Plotinus' "flight of the alone to the Alone"). Once I left the ivory tower of undergraduate studies for the ivory tower of theological studies I thought it was more realistic if I could integrate myself into a Western spiritual tradition. I never could find a faith community that I felt at home in (lots of stories there).

While temperamentally a pessimist I no longer hold such a philosophical disparagement of existence. Now it is just the psychological reaction towards the vicissitudes life and aging rather than a metaphysical mindset blaming the Creator (or a dualistic Demiurgic Creator). So now I am more Kabbalistic working towards the Restoration (Tikkun) of a broken world beginning with whatever human suffering I can alleviate instead of a flight from the world. The central stance is Compassion. My life was unhappy for many years and so I disparaged existence deeming it evil at one point. I now prefer to defy my constitutional pessimism and try to accept that creation is good and the universe is purposeful. These values may be a projection of how I choose to regard myself. Had I been less temperamentally AND correspondingly, philosophically pessimistic I might have considered becoming a father and then I would've avoided marrying the non-nurturing woman I married in my youth. :shrug:

Categorization does not have to be a form of judgement but more of a 'sorting' of simple observation. As Ram Dass pointed out in BE HERE NOW few people he said failed to appreciate that he had a discriminating mind. This does not mean that he discriminated against people! Like Myers-Briggs types it is helpful to 'size someone up' in order to better communicate with them. I remember when my wife realized this and afterwards she was a better INTP to deal with her very different ISFJ mum. Affectively I do not classify people. I lead with friendliness. But cognitively I need to know who I'm communicating with so as not to presume or assume anything.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,360
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26400916 - 12/25/19 07:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't read the whole thread, but, since DMT was synthesized in the 20th century and only naturally occurs in South America, that seems to lower the odds of Mohammad having had a DMT experience. IDK. Maybe he went there on vacation.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSandsandy
Stranger

Registered: 12/20/19
Posts: 19
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26401178 - 12/26/19 04:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You are right.
But I do not mean he found meth pipe and smoked changa.
My question is the life after death which Mohammad explained in Quran, is the same with the world people how have dmt experience are going? In the simple words Quran and dmt experiences both are coming from same dimension (world)?


Edited by Sandsandy (12/26/19 05:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSandsandy
Stranger

Registered: 12/20/19
Posts: 19
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Marius]
    #26401186 - 12/26/19 05:06 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

By saying something is holy it doesn't become holy. You should have reasons for your claim.
Why I should accept there is life after this life in the way which explained in quran?

Some people saying after death we become part of universe we will experience how to be object.
Another group are saying after death our soul will appear in another human body.
Some people are saying we will become animal.
How you can say they are not right? Have you seen the life after death?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26401200 - 12/26/19 05:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

mind spawn, sure, it's all mental energy.
with religion, memes seem to spread, usually on the energy of suffering, often mixed with hate or xenophobia.

pitted against the other, religious forms take on culturally pure shapes.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarius
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/15
Posts: 43
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Sandsandy]
    #26401252 - 12/26/19 07:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sandsandy said:
By saying something is holy it doesn't become holy. You should have reasons for your claim.
Why I should accept there is life after this life in the way which explained in quran?

Some people saying after death we become part of universe we will experience how to be object.
Another group are saying after death our soul will appear in another human body.
Some people are saying we will become animal.
How you can say they are not right? Have you seen the life after death?




I never claimed Quran is holy, I did however say that it's simply not possible for a human to come up with especially 1400 years ago.

I also never claimed to know what happens when we die, but it seems like you really want to talk about that so I'll roll with it.

You'll see what you did during your life when you die, and anyone who believes any form of afterlife can agree with this surely. The actions you did, and the way they propagated and echoed into the future to effect billions upon trillions of lives, will be placed in front of you and how you feel after that is pretty much natural. Reincarnated as a dog? Eternal hellfire? Dissolving into the Earth? I don't know for certain what's planned for everyone in the next life but we should agree that just like everything that happens here it'll be exactly what we want.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offliner00tcmplx
Stranger

Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 419
Last seen: 4 years, 1 day
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26401549 - 12/26/19 12:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
that can work for you but it is part of a private language, meant for a quest such as yours.
persoanlly, I don't want to classify people into us and them or other, I am at a raw place and it is changing continuously.




Just FYI: My "quest" in Gnostic religion and its attendant pessimism was for me a Near Eastern transition from a Far Eastern philosophical stance I once had, but both were strict dualisms of spirit and matter. I also held a similar Neoplatonist world-view (Plotinus' "flight of the alone to the Alone"). Once I left the ivory tower of undergraduate studies for the ivory tower of theological studies I thought it was more realistic if I could integrate myself into a Western spiritual tradition. I never could find a faith community that I felt at home in (lots of stories there).

While temperamentally a pessimist I no longer hold such a philosophical disparagement of existence. Now it is just the psychological reaction towards the vicissitudes life and aging rather than a metaphysical mindset blaming the Creator (or a dualistic Demiurgic Creator). So now I am more Kabbalistic working towards the Restoration (Tikkun) of a broken world beginning with whatever human suffering I can alleviate instead of a flight from the world. The central stance is Compassion. My life was unhappy for many years and so I disparaged existence deeming it evil at one point. I now prefer to defy my constitutional pessimism and try to accept that creation is good and the universe is purposeful. These values may be a projection of how I choose to regard myself. Had I been less temperamentally AND correspondingly, philosophically pessimistic I might have considered becoming a father and then I would've avoided marrying the non-nurturing woman I married in my youth. :shrug:

Categorization does not have to be a form of judgement but more of a 'sorting' of simple observation. As Ram Dass pointed out in BE HERE NOW few people he said failed to appreciate that he had a discriminating mind. This does not mean that he discriminated against people! Like Myers-Briggs types it is helpful to 'size someone up' in order to better communicate with them. I remember when my wife realized this and afterwards she was a better INTP to deal with her very different ISFJ mum. Affectively I do not classify people. I lead with friendliness. But cognitively I need to know who I'm communicating with so as not to presume or assume anything.




You're quite elusive to elicit a response from but I feel the need to inquire nonetheless... 

What do you feel will come of Man's stride into a more intimate and correct knowledge of their existence, nature, and creation via their own 'ultimate' creation?

Whereas humanity remains still so dis-jointly/cultural tied to a more ultimate truth, what occurs when the connectivity of thought/conceptualization is more absolutely revealed and connected across time?

Nonetheless, what is simply is and what is to be will be. However, what are you 'spiritual' thoughts on the matter?



When man is drawn to a light that is representational across language?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: r00tcmplx]
    #26402298 - 12/27/19 12:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I do not understand your question. I do not know what "'ultimate' creation" means. I do not have "'spiritual' thoughts" on the future. The categories of spirituality and thought are two different conditions, the former being an essentially intuitive, perceptive, and trans-rational (non-thought) awareness characterized by unification of mental processes. Conversely, the thinking mind on the other hand is discursive ("proceeding by argument or reasoning rather than by intuition"), analytical, and discriminating.

This is why more than after four decades after seminary I find theology to be a completely false endeavor designed to placate the thinking mind which demands rational answers to non-rational questions. Theology is 'spiritual thinking' and as I said the two words denote categories as separate as oil and water. The more 'spiritual' one becomes the more simple one's thoughts become regarding spirituality because (1) analytical thinking about transcendental mysteries is abandoned, (2) the thinking mind realizes that it is incapable of providing satisfactory intellectual answers about 'spirit', and (3) human spirituality has more to do with compassion and empathy than with thinking.

I am not being elusive. Perhaps seeking '"spiritual' thinking" from me is trying to squeeze blood from a stone. Perhaps you are looking for intellectual input instead of input from the obviousness of direct experience of one's existence. The intellectual is dark, vague, lower-dimensional shadows on the wall of Plato's cave. The illuminated actual, higher-dimensional realities are known directly unmediated by shadowy representations. As the bibliography at the end of the book BE HERE NOW begins, "Painted Cakes Do Not Satisfy Hunger." In other words, words, ideas are not ultimately fulfilling. There is knowing about something and there is Knowing something directly and experientially. As the Gestalt therapist Fritz Perls said, "Lose your mind and come to your senses."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offliner00tcmplx
Stranger

Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 419
Last seen: 4 years, 1 day
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26402411 - 12/27/19 02:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I do not understand your question. I do not know what "'ultimate' creation" means. I do not have "'spiritual' thoughts" on the future. The categories of spirituality and thought are two different conditions, the former being an essentially intuitive, perceptive, and trans-rational (non-thought) awareness characterized by unification of mental processes. Conversely, the thinking mind on the other hand is discursive ("proceeding by argument or reasoning rather than by intuition"), analytical, and discriminating.

This is why more than after four decades after seminary I find theology to be a completely false endeavor designed to placate the thinking mind which demands rational answers to non-rational questions. Theology is 'spiritual thinking' and as I said the two words denote categories as separate as oil and water. The more 'spiritual' one becomes the more simple one's thoughts become regarding spirituality because (1) analytical thinking about transcendental mysteries is abandoned, (2) the thinking mind realizes that it is incapable of providing satisfactory intellectual answers about 'spirit', and (3) human spirituality has more to do with compassion and empathy than with thinking.

I am not being elusive. Perhaps seeking '"spiritual' thinking" from me is trying to squeeze blood from a stone. Perhaps you are looking for intellectual input instead of input from the obviousness of direct experience of one's existence. The intellectual is dark, vague, lower-dimensional shadows on the wall of Plato's cave. The illuminated actual, higher-dimensional realities are known directly unmediated by shadowy representations. As the bibliography at the end of the book BE HERE NOW begins, "Painted Cakes Do Not Satisfy Hunger." In other words, words, ideas are not ultimately fulfilling. There is knowing about something and there is Knowing something directly and experientially. As the Gestalt therapist Fritz Perls said, "Lose your mind and come to your senses."




I was eluding to there being an unspoken scientific understanding of the phenomenon you and many others refer to in rather abstract terms. A sound enough understanding such that there will an instantiation of it in a new alternative form. Of course every human being has their own romantic ruminations of what I speak of and as you detail. However, I was speaking moreso of a coming manifestation of it in a real world artificial abstraction and no there isn't anything in this known universe that prevents it. A rather interesting understanding as it draws in part from the many repeated mystical mantras of a time's past.

Of course thinking with one's intellect and having a targeted goal in mind, the many 'mysteries' of a time's past reveal and speak deeply of the 'blueprint' one is after. Just curious if such a well 'traveled' person as yourself is aware of such things or if the thought ever crossed your mind.

Hoping to gather a personal framing as we close out the year.
As man is forged into a new artificial form, what are you thoughts/feelings on that? How would you feel if the understanding came from the many schools of 'mystery'?


Edited by r00tcmplx (12/27/19 02:47 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: r00tcmplx] * 1
    #26403550 - 12/27/19 07:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Science is a methodology that is applicable to physical phenomena, not psychic or spiritual phenomena, or in a word, consciousness. All that can be approached by the scientific method is the brain which has a unique correspondence with mind. But I do not equate mind with matter, and science has nothing pertinent to say about mind because being non-physical it can not be quantified. Your expression "real world artificial abstraction" seems oxymoronic to me, contradictory. Mystical experience cannot be translated into science without reductionism which destroys it. Reductionism violates Victor Frankl's rules of "Dimensional Ontology" wherein projecting a reality onto lesser dimensions yields contradictory and inaccurate results:



Clearly a 3-D solid cylinder is more than a 2-D circle and rectangle.

Models ("blueprints?") are tools that can be applied to different endeavors. For example Will Parfitt demonstrated a scheme whereby he corresponded the 10 spheres on the Qabbalistic Tree with the 7 chakras of Hindu Yoga, AND showed the phenomenological correspondences. The 3 pillars on the Tree are shown to correspond with the 3 spinal pathways in the yogic model (Solar-Pingala-Severity, Lunar-Ida-Mercy, Sushumna-Middle Pillar). But each model has its own virtues. The Tibetan Buddhist model has its unique virtues as does the Chinese Taoist system. The foci are on different aspects of existence and Being.

The direction of humanity is from "the natural man" to the "inner man" as Paul described in his letters which became biblical writ, a movement from the natural to the spiritual, the physical to the metaphysical, not the natural to the "artificial." I endeavored long and hard to become comfortable in my own skin while rising above the demands of the appetitive soul. I do not relish the replacement of my natural parts by artificial mesh in my hernia repair, the plastic intra-occular lens instead of the natural lens in my eye, the Titanium stud supporting a dental implant, or even my dependence on reading and driving eye glasses but I do appreciate them. I simply hope for no more artificial aids and I draw the line at ventilator-existence.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offliner00tcmplx
Stranger

Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 419
Last seen: 4 years, 1 day
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26403592 - 12/27/19 08:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Science is a methodology that is applicable to physical phenomena, not psychic or spiritual phenomena, or in a word, consciousness.




Everything is everything ultimately.
I speak not of textbook definitions but from a uniquely higher viewpoint.


Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
All that can be approached by the scientific method is the brain which has a unique correspondence with mind. But I do not equate mind with matter, and science has nothing pertinent to say about mind because being non-physical it can not be quantified. Your expression "real world artificial abstraction" seems oxymoronic to me, contradictory. Mystical experience cannot be translated into science without reductionism which destroys it. Reductionism violates Victor Frankl's rules of "Dimensional Ontology" wherein projecting a reality onto lesser dimensions yields contradictory and inaccurate results:



Clearly a 3-D solid cylinder is more than a 2-D circle and rectangle.




Shine a light from all possible angles and the 'true' picture becomes clearer. I asked not of what is established science/knowledge but what is to come.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Models ("blueprints?") are tools that can be applied to different endeavors.




And I spoke of a rather unique one.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
For example Will Parfitt demonstrated a scheme whereby he corresponded the 10 spheres on the Qabbalistic Tree with the 7 chakras of Hindu Yoga, AND showed the phenomenological correspondences. The 3 pillars on the Tree are shown to correspond with the 3 spinal pathways in the yogic model (Solar-Pingala-Severity, Lunar-Ida-Mercy, Sushumna-Middle Pillar). But each model has its own virtues. The Tibetan Buddhist model has its unique virtues as does the Chinese Taoist system. The foci are on different aspects of existence and Being.




There is a schema which affords one the ability to combine multiple foci towards higher understanding. I speak of such a process directed towards the endeavor of recreating man.


Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The direction of humanity is from "the natural man" to the "inner man" as Paul described in his letters which became biblical writ, a movement from the natural to the spiritual, the physical to the metaphysical, not the natural to the "artificial." I endeavored long and hard to become comfortable in my own skin while rising above the demands of the appetitive soul. I do not relish the replacement of my natural parts by artificial mesh in my hernia repair, the plastic intra-occular lens instead of the natural lens in my eye, the Titanium stud supporting a dental implant, or even my dependence on reading and driving eye glasses but I do appreciate them. I simply hope for no more artificial aids and I draw the line at ventilator-existence.




I used terms loosely here such that 'Artificial' corresponds to the spiritual and a future state of knowledge whereas the 'natural' reflects present day familiar knowledge. I solicit not your personal sentiment but moreso open-ended commentary about the possibility of such a thing in the near future. What of the nature of man if not to ultimately understand and recreate things beyond 'nature' an the natural world? What does a well-traveled spiritual man such as yourself feel about such things?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26403864 - 12/28/19 12:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Science is a methodology that is applicable to physical phenomena, not psychic or spiritual phenomena




WRONG! If something interacts with the physical world, then it is amenable to the scientific method. If it does not, then it is indistinguishable from imagination and carries as much weight.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #26404002 - 12/28/19 02:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Science is a methodology that is applicable to physical phenomena, not psychic or spiritual phenomena




WRONG! If something interacts with the physical world, then it is amenable to the scientific method. If it does not, then it is indistinguishable from imagination and carries as much weight.




I think you're wrong. You sound like someone who 'believes' in Scientism rather than being scientific methodologically. I cannot prove my psychic experiences nor my spiritual experiences yet there have been remarkable phenomena in my life. They operate independently of my controlling ego and any experimental possible design. That does not mean they are imaginary. Speculatively,  psychic and the spiritual may operate in parallel to the physical world, like distant particles in quantum entanglement which are operating in consonance but which cannot be causally communicating faster than light-speed. Synchronicity is "an acausal connecting principle." Simultaneity is somewhat different.

I can grok things like Bohm's Implicate-Explicate Order, or Sheldrake's Morphic Resonance and models for explaining phenomena based on entirely different processes as the simple rational processing of sensory data. I can do that too. But I have been granted experiences that current science is incapable of explaining. You should know this about me by now. I can still hear wood-eating insects inside of my wood pile. A late friend (since junior high) who became a exterminator once said "that is impossible." He was essentially calling me a liar because for him it was impossible to perceive such sounds. Well, it was impossible for Fred who had been a drummer since junior high school, but it was not impossible for me. My wife complained of the sound of ants scraping their chitinous bodies through the concrete blocks of an outer wall in her bathroom. I could hear that too. I bored into the wall from outside and introduced insecticide. No more ants no more noises. No, it wasn't imagination or hallucination, it was an infestation. :lol:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26404213 - 12/28/19 07:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

science has nothing pertinent to say about mind because being non-physical it can not be quantified




The good thing about your post is that it shows how we can model 3d using 2d projections (great illustration), we can do it in our minds or, using algorithms and machines, we can have it done for us auto magically.

With a good model we can make predictions that are reliable.

Experimental evidence has many pertinent things to say about a quantifiable mind, and science is getting quite close to correlating brain function with mind in all cases. These correlations can be used to formulate reliable predictions about mind and brain in many cases.

I am disturbed that so many intelligent people cling to remnants of superstition about god and mind and spirit, but I understand that it is difficult to model totality, and when a church claims to have successfully done so using FAITH, then that seem to be enough for a large segment of humanity that are open to alternate truths.

What is most disturbing about this, is that they believe that, in being FAITHFUL (or aligned WITH OTHERS WHO HAVE FAITH), they must declare that things poorly understood (such as mind) are not of this world, and they use that as proof of the otherworldliness of spirit and god which are completely conjectural models supported by the thinnest of evidence - usually synchronicity.

Moreover, hordes of the faithful are easily duped into following complete jerks, and opposing anything with ties to science, such as immunization, green house gas modeling, and the fallacy of race based society.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,360
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26404286 - 12/28/19 08:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Science is a methodology that is applicable to physical phenomena, not psychic or spiritual phenomena, or in a word, consciousness. All that can be approached by the scientific method is the brain which has a unique correspondence with mind. But I do not equate mind with matter, and science has nothing pertinent to say about mind because being non-physical it can not be quantified. Your expression "real world artificial abstraction" seems oxymoronic to me, contradictory. Mystical experience cannot be translated into science without reductionism which destroys it. Reductionism violates Victor Frankl's rules of "Dimensional Ontology" wherein projecting a reality onto lesser dimensions yields contradictory and inaccurate results:



Clearly a 3-D solid cylinder is more than a 2-D circle and rectangle.

Models ("blueprints?") are tools that can be applied to different endeavors. For example Will Parfitt demonstrated a scheme whereby he corresponded the 10 spheres on the Qabbalistic Tree with the 7 chakras of Hindu Yoga, AND showed the phenomenological correspondences. The 3 pillars on the Tree are shown to correspond with the 3 spinal pathways in the yogic model (Solar-Pingala-Severity, Lunar-Ida-Mercy, Sushumna-Middle Pillar). But each model has its own virtues. The Tibetan Buddhist model has its unique virtues as does the Chinese Taoist system. The foci are on different aspects of existence and Being.

The direction of humanity is from "the natural man" to the "inner man" as Paul described in his letters which became biblical writ, a movement from the natural to the spiritual, the physical to the metaphysical, not the natural to the "artificial." I endeavored long and hard to become comfortable in my own skin while rising above the demands of the appetitive soul. I do not relish the replacement of my natural parts by artificial mesh in my hernia repair, the plastic intra-occular lens instead of the natural lens in my eye, the Titanium stud supporting a dental implant, or even my dependence on reading and driving eye glasses but I do appreciate them. I simply hope for no more artificial aids and I draw the line at ventilator-existence.




I am not well versed here, but I think you are right. They can map the brain till they think they have it mastered. That will inform us very little about the mind.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
Re: Do you think Mohammad had dmt experience? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26404521 - 12/28/19 11:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

the mapping is important, but more important is how the traffic moves, and the traffic is mental forms linking to other mental forms, some of which include speaking and acting.

so far study of brain is about the hardwiring and layout using large time slices. thoughts, however, move on a faster scale... higher speed brain imaging of electrical field changes will inform us about how mental contents move in the mind.

this does not mean you have to stop being imaginative about your deities, but it will stop PHD's from expounding upon how our ideas are proof of a nonphysical dimension.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* last 2 weeks leading to first dmt experience *DELETED* anarchyhollow 406 2 01/05/04 06:13 PM
by Sclorch
* Death / Rebirth / DMT / Light Isolation etc... justthiz 4,691 10 11/10/10 09:45 PM
by BlueSonicRibbon
* Anyone Read "DMT The Spirit Molecule"?? jono 988 6 04/01/03 11:28 PM
by usefulidiot
* DMT Vs Shrooms
( 1 2 all )
LOBO 31,552 22 07/31/03 07:31 AM
by LOBO
* DMT - Any theories?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Xlea321 9,982 101 06/01/08 10:38 PM
by backfromthedead
* Anyone here experience DMT? Tweexican 823 10 02/13/04 10:10 AM
by Strumpling
* DMT, what a molecule!
( 1 2 all )
skaMariaPastora 3,678 39 03/06/02 07:01 AM
by Divine_Madness
* DMT: The Spirit Molecule
( 1 2 all )
joeshitragpicker 2,365 24 11/20/03 10:53 AM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
960 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.