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azramb
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Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT
#26399732 - 12/24/19 09:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not really sure if this would work and I have no way of testing it but I had an idea pop in my head the other day of a new way of potentially getting around DMT breakdown from MAO enzymes. I was reading and found that all enzymes have an effective range of both temperature and ph. At the high and low ends of the given ranges the enzymes start to lose they're efficiency to catalyze chemical reactions. Out side of the range the enzymes will "denature" and lose it's ability to do this at all. This is usually irreversible once the point of denaturing is reached and so reaching this point is probably not desirable. However if one could find the correct temperature and/or ph to reach the extremes of this range without denaturing the enzymes ROA'S such as sublingual and innsuflation should become much more effective without needing to take an maoi such as harmine. My idea however was to absorb the DMT through the skin using liquid compounds like those found in moisturizing products. There was a specific compound I had found with a high absorption rate in skin when I first got the idea but I don't remember the name of it at the moment. The idea is to increase-or decrease-the ph of this compound and than cool it in the fridge to whatever the specific temp/ph might be for enzyme catalyst reduction. I would prep two separate amounts of the absorbent liquid in this way. One with no DMT that I would leave to sit on a part of the body for several minutes-possibly with an ice pack at the correct temperature laying on top-to hopefully get the enzymes to lose efficiency before the DMT was administered. And then after I would apply the DMT containing solution. I would do this to a hairy part of the body as the hair is supposed to be more effective at absorbing liquids. The armpits I've read in particular are supposed to be efficient at this. I'm not really sure if this would work but I figured I'd share the idea as I have no way of testing it myself at the moment. Any thoughts on this?
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BabylonRuleDem
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb]
#26399796 - 12/24/19 11:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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In mexico MHRB is used for all kinds of topical products. From lotions to soaps to ointments said to be useful for all sorts of ailments. Do they work? probably to some extent, we wont know exactly how effective they are for a long time. As far as i know no one is researching this.
As for this being an effective way to "dose" dmt, I would say probably not gonna happen. The amount you would need to get a psychoactive dose would be unpractical for anyone who doesn't own a property with a sustainable source of mimosa.
If i lived somewhere that Mimosa hostilis grows i would use it like the mexicans do. Make fence posts out of the trunk, charcoal/pot ash out of the brush, and soap out of the rootbark. Would be sweet to have a property made of and surrounded by Mimosa and Mimosa products.
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azramb
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Yeah possibly would need more than was practical. Id still like to give it a shot if I ever get the chance. I know DMT salts are active to some extent sublingually so I figure with the proper inhibition of the enzymes at the site of absorption it could possibly be a fairly effecient route. My main reasoning for using a heat/ph imbalance to inhibit the enzyme is because some people can't take proper maois because they're on medication that disagree with these compounds. And some people just dont react favorably to maois in general. It would be cool to create some kind of extended release patch that keeps the enzymes on site inhibited. Would be good for therapy i think since you could have a fair amount of control over the duration of the effects. I agree it's a beautiful plant, it would be cool to use it ornamentally. Maybe make wooden sculptures out of It. I think making a staff out of the twisting vines of B. Cappi would be awesome.
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BabylonRuleDem
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb]
#26400438 - 12/25/19 12:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Doesn't hurt to experiment. Skin is pretty good at protecting the bloodstream from chemicals entering though. I think you could roll in Dmt powder and not reach a breakthrough dose, very possibly not even get a threshold dose. Absorption through skin is slow and not very efficient when compared to other ROAs.
heat/ph adjustment may help, buy you can only go so far till the ph would damage skin. Same with heat. Also this would only be a localized effect, if any, the rest of the body/bloodstream it had to go through to reach the brain would still have MAO.
Quote:
azramb said: I agree it's a beautiful plant, it would be cool to use it ornamentally. Maybe make wooden sculptures out of It. I think making a staff out of the twisting vines of B. Cappi would be awesome.
Oh yeah buddy speaking my language
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openmind
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb]
#26400520 - 12/25/19 01:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
azramb said: ....However if one could find the correct temperature and/or ph to reach the extremes of this range without denaturing the enzymes ROA'S such as sublingual and innsuflation should become much more effective without needing to take an maoi such as harmine. My idea however was to absorb the DMT through the skin using liquid compounds like those found in moisturizing products....I would leave to sit on a part of the body for several minutes-possibly with an ice pack at the correct temperature laying on top-to hopefully get the enzymes to lose efficiency before the DMT was administered. And then after I would apply the DMT containing solution.
I don't think I'm understanding what is is you're trying to describe.
So you want to absorb DMT through the skin?...Even if that's possible, which I don't think DMT will absorb very efficiently/quickly, how are you going to inhibit MAO in the body?
How will a mere "ice pack" inhibit MAO?
How are you going to use temperature and/or ph to "denature" MAO in the body? MAO is produced in the gut and in the brain, I don't understand how temperature and ph can be used specifically in the gut & brain to inhibit MAO..?.How would that be done?.....And with the temperatures needed to denature enzymes, I feel damage to tissue/flesh would be likely....Can you elaborate on and explain this better?
Even if you were able to get DMT to absorb very rapidly through the skin, how are you going to inhibit monoamine oxidase? How are you going to prevent the DMT from being broken down by MAO?
And abortion through the skin is slow...even if MAO was inhibited through out the body enough for DMT to be active, delivering an active dose of DMT through the skin will be very slow. I don't think a full dose of DMT can be delivered/absorbed through the skin rapidly enough to be active (even if MAO was inhibited).
Quote:
azramb said: ...It would be cool to create some kind of extended release patch that keeps the enzymes on site inhibited.
What do you mean "on site"? And how are you inhibiting MAO?
If you want to administer DMT with out a MAOI involved just plug it anally .
Or smoke it.
Or snort it.
It would be cool to just slap a patch on my arm and have a DMT trip...but absorbing DMT through the skin just doesn't seem like an effective route for many different reasons.
-OM
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azramb
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: openmind]
#26400608 - 12/25/19 03:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:It would be cool to just slap a patch on my arm and have a DMT trip...but absorbing DMT through the skin just doesn't seem like an effective route for many different reasons. .
Yeah probably not just a random idea I had after reading about how enzymes function at different heat and ph. I guess I'll have to rub some ice cold acidic DMT filled skin moisturizer on my armpits and find out lol.
Edited by azramb (12/25/19 03:55 PM)
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb]
#26400625 - 12/25/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you can't or don't want to mess with your MAO but still want to experience DMT without smoking, supposedly boofing the salt works.
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azramb
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Icon]
#26400712 - 12/25/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I'm not to keen on the maoi. I might be down to try it some day but that type of stuff makes me nervous. Smokings good, just to short and I've read snorting the salts or letting them absorb in the mouth isn't very efficient. Boofing ehhh? I had to look that one up lol. Less enzymes in your butt hole I guess haha. Or it just absorbs faster or something? Interesting.
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BabylonRuleDem
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: openmind]
#26401227 - 12/26/19 06:44 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said: If you want to administer DMT with out a MAOI involved just plug it anally .
Or smoke it.
Or snort it. .
Wouldn't put anything in my poop shoot, but if your open to it then more power to you. No nevre endings down there(or would it be up there ) right?
Smoking is the easiest and most effective IME...IV/IM might be better, but i wouldn't suggest that to anyone. If i had access to a 99.9% product i might be more inclined to test it.
As for snorting, you couldn't pay me to try that again. It burns like a mofo even with a DMT salt. I wouldn't recommend it.
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb]
#26401245 - 12/26/19 07:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
azramb said: Yeah I'm not to keen on the maoi. I might be down to try it some day but that type of stuff makes me nervous. Smokings good, just to short and I've read snorting the salts or letting them absorb in the mouth isn't very efficient. Boofing ehhh? I had to look that one up lol. Less enzymes in your butt hole I guess haha. Or it just absorbs faster or something? Interesting.
Both. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26118093
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Shroomei
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Icon]
#26401443 - 12/26/19 10:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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MAOs can be found everywhere in your body. Most can be found in the liver that is why ingesting it will get dmt metabolized almost completely there. Transdermal, sublingual, smoking or rectal administration avoid the first pass through the liver so that it has a chance to reach the brain before it is metabolized.
Edited by Shroomei (12/26/19 10:39 AM)
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openmind
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb] 1
#26401688 - 12/26/19 02:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
azramb said: Yeah I'm not to keen on the maoi. I might be down to try it some day but that type of stuff makes me nervous....
Why not? Why does it make you nervous? They aren't inherently dangerous.
And things like like syrian rue seed and caapi vine, basically all of the harmala alkaloids, none of them are actually a true "MAOI"....
....The harmala alkaloids in rue and caapi are considered to be a "RIMA", they are "Reversible Inhibitors of Monoamine oxidase-A", and not an actual full on "MAOI".
They are short acting and reversible inhibitors, they only temporarily inhibit MAO and only MAO-A specifically...They do not cause long lasting complete inhibition of MAO like "true" MAOIs/pharmaceuticals.
They are quite safe to work with .
-OM
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: openmind]
#26401745 - 12/26/19 03:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:
Quote:
azramb said: Yeah I'm not to keen on the maoi. I might be down to try it some day but that type of stuff makes me nervous....
Why not? Why does it make you nervous? They aren't inherently dangerous.
And things like like syrian rue seed and caapi vine, basically all of the harmala alkaloids, none of them are actually a true "MAOI"....
....The harmala alkaloids in rue and caapi are considered to be a "RIMA", they are "Reversible Inhibitors of Monoamine oxidase-A", and not an actual full on "MAOI".
They are short acting and reversible inhibitors, they only temporarily inhibit MAO and only MAO-A specifically...They do not cause long lasting complete inhibition of MAO like "true" MAOIs/pharmaceuticals.
They are quite safe to work with .
-OM
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Yup, Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, and Moclobemide, only inhibit MAO-A for a few hours, and then MAO-A goes back to normal. So long as you're not taking contraindicated medications/drugs (SSRI's, Amphetamines/Meth/MDMA, and a few others) and are careful about substances metabolized by CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 (in the case of inhibition by Harmalas), then it's actually pretty safe, the worst that can happen from Harmalas/Rue/Caapi is you get nauseous and vomit with a high enough dosage, other than that though there's nothing wrong with reversible MAO-A inhibition, and Moclobemide doesn't cause any nausea/vomiting unlike the Harmalas, but the Harmalas are much preferred over Moclobemide due to some of the other effects it adds to the experience.
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azramb
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Sabnock]
#26401907 - 12/26/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I remember reading somewhere a while back about them being reversible and safer than most maois. I guess just knowing about how pharmaceutical maois can effect a person is what made me nervous about it. Part of me has always wanted to try it but DMT and psilocybin by themselves have been good to me so I guess I just never took the time to really research the harmines enough or get opinions from people who have actually used it. Thank you for the information!
Edited by azramb (12/26/19 05:51 PM)
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azramb
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Icon]
#26401952 - 12/26/19 06:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said:
Quote:
azramb said: Yeah I'm not to keen on the maoi. I might be down to try it some day but that type of stuff makes me nervous. Smokings good, just to short and I've read snorting the salts or letting them absorb in the mouth isn't very efficient. Boofing ehhh? I had to look that one up lol. Less enzymes in your butt hole I guess haha. Or it just absorbs faster or something? Interesting.
Both. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26118093
Good to know. Might be something worth trying then. DMT has great effects but I just don't like how short it is. This sounds like it would work nicely. Vegetable oil in the ass doesn't sound amazing but I think I could get passed that lol.
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BabylonRuleDem
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb] 1
#26402479 - 12/27/19 04:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have no first hand experience with this, but from what i have read this is another option if your trying to extend the experience.
Apparently you can smoke DMT on a lower dose of mushrooms (~2g or so) and extend the duration. Supposedly it makes the come up less of a rocket ride to the destination and more of a smooth hike up a mountain side.
Again Ive never tried it so this is based on reports from other users here. However it seems plausible to me
Just another option if your trying to avoid MAOIs. As already pointed out Rue and Caapi are pretty safe though. Unpleasant body load and vomiting are the worst you should experience, so long as you take a reasonable dose.
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Boof it. Seriously.
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: azramb] 1
#26502298 - 02/24/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I like adding a bit to the second ferment of kombucha. I figure the tyramine locks up a good amount of mao’s... feels energetic. I’m pretty sure it’s a good way to feed your mitochondrion
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Hunter hunter] 1
#26502515 - 02/25/20 02:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not super keen on smoking DMT, rectal, oral and the dreaded snorting are my preferred ROAs. Yeah snorting hurts like a motherfucker but after the first two lines it's so goddamn painful you might as well keep going, definitely go with a salt even if it's just diluted in a bit of vinegar to for acetate and insufflate that diluted in a bit of water over 5-10 minutes very different from smoked for sure and requires higher doses but it's worth a go.
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openmind
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Re: Idea for a possible new ROA for DMT [Re: Hunter hunter]
#26503176 - 02/25/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hunter hunter said: I like adding a bit to the second ferment of kombucha. I figure the tyramine locks up a good amount of mao’s... feels energetic. I’m pretty sure it’s a good way to feed your mitochondrion
You add what to your kombucha during fermentation?
DMT? Tyramine?
-OM
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