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Offlinejimineycricket
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Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy
    #26398586 - 12/24/19 04:03 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hi there ,

I am planning on doing a diy version of the kind of pscilocybin therapy that is carried out by the Imperial College London with an eye mask and headphones playing a tailored playlist .

Libery caps are the mushrooms that I could forage for and are what I will use.

I am a bit confused on dose however. I suspect that when a lot of people online speak of mushroom doses in gram amounts that they are referring to Cubensis which is a lot less potent than liberty caps , and they may also have a recreational focus in their choice of dose.

For Example I imagine Terrence Mckennas 5 grams in darkness would be a very different experience if one were taking 5 grams of Cubensis verses 5 grams of Liberty Caps.

I am heavyish at 95-100kg or around 210 LBS which is also a consideration.

So I would really like to hear from anyone who has worked with liberty caps for a therapeutic outcome. What is a ballpark effective dose to work with liberty caps in this specific way ? Or with so many variables such as batch potency , individual readiness , body weight etc is this  even a Question worth asking ? Should i just begin experimentation with low end doses and work my way up ?


Edited by jimineycricket (12/24/19 04:11 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: jimineycricket]
    #26398595 - 12/24/19 04:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Take a look at the Shroomery’s dosage calculator: here.

I use both cubensis and semilanceata (Liberty Caps); a 5g dried dose of cubensis is roughly equivalent to 3.5g dry of liberty caps. I took approx 3.6g dry liberty caps a while ago and it was such an intense trip compared to cubensis. I find with liberty caps, the CEVs are much less than with cubensis, but that the OEVs are extreme!

Take care, and mush love,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26398612 - 12/24/19 04:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
. I find with liberty caps, the CEVs are much less than with cubensis, but that the OEVs are extreme!






I wonder what properties would case that difference.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26398693 - 12/24/19 06:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

DJ Ed said:
. I find with liberty caps, the CEVs are much less than with cubensis, but that the OEVs are extreme!






I wonder what properties would case that difference.




I’m being lazy here, should really check. But from memory, it is to do with the ratios of psychoactive compounds. Semilanceata is quite different to cubensis. And there’s other stuff in it like (total guess....) baeocystin.

I find semilanceata are quite deeper and darker than cubensis.

Take care,
DJ Ed.


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlineazramb
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26399777 - 12/24/19 10:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

DJ Ed said:
. I find with liberty caps, the CEVs are much less than with cubensis, but that the OEVs are extreme!






I wonder what properties would case that difference.




I'd say likely any difference in the effects between the two is due to higher levels of baeocystin in liberty caps.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: azramb]
    #26399790 - 12/24/19 11:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think your idea of starting low is the right one. John Hopkins suggests that 20mg psilocybin for a 70kg individual seems to be the optimal therapeutic dose. This is supposed to be roughly equal to two grams of gold caps. And in my observations weight doesn't necessarily effect your sensitivity to psychedelics as much as it does with other substances so I think this is a fair estimate for MOST people. I know a few people who weigh more than me who are much more sensitive than I am to psilocybin. I've no experience with libs but from what I've read it seems they are maybe 1.5 to 2.5 times the potency. This can likely very to a larger range if you were comparing weak batches of golds to a particularly strong batch of libs or the other way around. As they do very from batch to batch, even from mushroom to mushroom. I would recommend starting with no more than 1 gram if your inexperienced. Possibly as small as .5 grams if you want to stay on the safe side. Especially if you don't have some one there to help talk you through things if it starts feeling like to much.


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Invisiblemu5h13
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: azramb]
    #26405985 - 12/29/19 09:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

azramb said:
I think your idea of starting low is the right one. John Hopkins suggests that 20mg psilocybin for a 70kg individual seems to be the optimal therapeutic dose. This is supposed to be roughly equal to two grams of gold caps. And in my observations weight doesn't necessarily effect your sensitivity to psychedelics as much as it does with other substances so I think this is a fair estimate for MOST people. I know a few people who weigh more than me who are much more sensitive than I am to psilocybin. I've no experience with libs but from what I've read it seems they are maybe 1.5 to 2.5 times the potency. This can likely very to a larger range if you were comparing weak batches of golds to a particularly strong batch of libs or the other way around. As they do very from batch to batch, even from mushroom to mushroom. I would recommend starting with no more than 1 gram if your inexperienced. Possibly as small as .5 grams if you want to stay on the safe side. Especially if you don't have some one there to help talk you through things if it starts feeling like to much.




This, if you are well acquainted with solo tripping start with 1g libs and work from there

If not defo don't start with anymore than .5g, libs can be surprisingly potent (but in a good way overall ime, you just need experience to know how to handle them well, but once you do they are amazing)


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Offlinejimineycricket
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26425985 - 01/10/20 04:59 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Guys what do you mean when you say CEVs and OEVs ?


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Offlinejimineycricket
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: azramb]
    #26425989 - 01/10/20 05:04 AM (4 years, 19 days ago)

according to the shroomery dose calculator 1 gram of Gold caps = 5.6 mg pscilocybin so 20mg of pscilocybin would be more like 4 grams of goldcaps.  Is that dose calculator accurate?

It seems like a guessing game then trying to convert dried grams of liberty caps or any other mushroom to a specific weight of pscilocybin.


Edited by jimineycricket (01/10/20 05:24 AM)


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: jimineycricket]
    #26426389 - 01/10/20 12:03 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Liberty Caps average ~1% psilocybin by dry weight. It can of course vary between individual mushrooms, however if you're taking a few it should average out to 1 gram dry = 10 miligrams psilocybin.

In the Psilocybin occasioned mystical-type experiences: Immediate and persisting dose-related effects study, they found that 20 and 30mg of psilocybin per 70kg body weight could help to provide an experience which had lasting benefits. It's worth baring in mind the participants also had support leading up to, during and after their sessions. If the experience should bring some latent issues to the surface you must, unfortunately in this day and age, be prepared to deal with them without such knowledgeable support.

I'd agree with the study mentioned above as I feel there is sweet spot ~25mg/2.5 grams of dry Liberty Caps. I've also found that, fields of dreams aside, I usually pick around this amount in the average fruitful field or over a days picking. There's no shame in starting low to test the waters though, as long as you allow a significant period of time before venturing on your higher dose experience so the experience is still fresh.

All the best for your journey. :mushroomgrow:


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Offlinejimineycricket
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Karuna]
    #26426776 - 01/10/20 03:40 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Thanks for your response , how much time would you think I should leave between sessions so that I cone at it fresh ?


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: jimineycricket]
    #26426788 - 01/10/20 03:46 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

jimineycricket said:
Thanks for your response , how much time would you think I should leave between sessions so that I cone at it fresh ?



My personal opinion, not fact!

But, if you’re taking doses that get you “there”, then I’d say a minimum of a week. If you plan to do repeat sessions,  I personally would adjust that week to a fortnight. If you’re doing “heroic” 3.5g dry liberty caps, I’d leave a minimum of a month, probably six, or nine!

Everyone is different. Try and see what works for you. If you start to “lose the magic”, increase days off.

Hope that helps,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: jimineycricket]
    #26426791 - 01/10/20 03:47 PM (4 years, 19 days ago)

Oh, nd never forget the integration phase. If youmdose too frequently you’ll start to mentally clutter up. Might make sense if it happens to you!

Take care


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: jimineycricket]
    #26427513 - 01/11/20 03:07 AM (4 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

jimineycricket said:
Thanks for your response , how much time would you think I should leave between sessions so that I cone at it fresh ?




If you start with a lower dose then waiting 3 or more weeks before your strong dose should be fine to reset tolerance and ensure you experience it with fresh eyes. If you're having multiple sessions with strong doses I feel as if waiting 3 months or more is best. I sometimes wait a few weeks, a few months or even once a year.


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Offlineowerfull
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Karuna]
    #26427908 - 01/11/20 11:12 AM (4 years, 18 days ago)

This species is very strong. Not always they have average of 1% psilocybin, Finnish specimens had 1.4% average of psilocybin. Add to that baeocystin which they have 0.36% averagely, this substance is similarly active to psilocin. In that case you can have from 13.6 miligrams of psychoactive substances per dried gram to 17.6 miligrams of active substances per dried gram. Start with 1 gram or 1.5 gram and not more in my opinion. Two grams may be already too much for many people, 3 grams is pretty extreme from my experience.


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Offlinejimineycricket
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: owerfull]
    #26429438 - 01/12/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks it is really good to know this


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: owerfull]
    #26431574 - 01/13/20 03:10 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

owerfull said:
This species is very strong. Not always they have average of 1% psilocybin, Finnish specimens had 1.4% average of psilocybin. Add to that baeocystin which they have 0.36% averagely, this substance is similarly active to psilocin. In that case you can have from 13.6 miligrams of psychoactive substances per dried gram to 17.6 miligrams of active substances per dried gram. Start with 1 gram or 1.5 gram and not more in my opinion. Two grams may be already too much for many people, 3 grams is pretty extreme from my experience.




That's interesting, I've only come across 3 studies where they measured an average for semilanceata and even though one study had a single specimen measure 2.37%, they averaged out to 0.99%. If possible can you provide a link to the Finnish study please?

It is best to start low as you're right they are very strong little mushrooms. :mushroom2:


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Offlineowerfull
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: Karuna]
    #26432517 - 01/14/20 02:59 AM (4 years, 15 days ago)

If I'm not wrong it's in this study, 2.37% value comes from it as well: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6467055_Psilocybin_in_Finnish_Psilocybe_semilanceata

Mean value - 1.4% while the highest percentage in single specimen was 2.37%


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Liberty Cap Dose for Therapy [Re: owerfull]
    #26432549 - 01/14/20 04:20 AM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Thanks for the link, the study seems to confirm that the concentration of psilocybin per weight of mushrooms is higher in smaller mushrooms. I think to reach closer to 1% concentration it would be best to use fully mature mushrooms, or a mix of different sized fruits. In the study where they found 0.2-2.4% variance in individual specimens they commented that when 10-20 mushrooms were averaged it would always come out to ~1%, which makes sense as when you're measuring a gram (~20-30 mushrooms) there tends to be a few different sized mushrooms.


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